stwus

Hi I’m wondering if anyone has negative experience with these tunes? I can’t make up my mind which one to go with. One thing I like about EPL is that I can switch files on the fly without the need of a laptop to flash ECU again. Just how much tolerance is the B9 3.0T engine and how much did they “de-tune” it at the factory? I’m concerned about wearing it prematurely. Thanks in advance!

mhoran89

tune with whatever you want that is easiest for you. make sure you can always obtain 93 octane gas if that's the tune you choose. in terms of what the engine can handle, you should pay to play because you are pushing it past what the engineers at Audi wanted for long term reliability. as far as maintenance you should change the oil every 5K miles and do things like air filters every 30K. I would recommend trans fluid and diff fluid services every 45-60K and call it a day.

I have APR tuned 4 Audi vehicles, some of which were totally under warranty when I did it. not once has tuning a car been a "mistake" nor has it left me stranded. they are all very comparable and depending on how easy they are for you to obtain, update, change "maps", etc. is what you should base your decision off of.

Once you go past a stage 1 tune and start modifying things like intercoolers, downpipes, catalytic converters, high pressure fuel pumps, etc. the car will start to lose its daily driveability to some extent and starts becoming a project car... just remember that no matter who else wants to tell you otherwise. happy modding and tuning.

stwus

Thanks for your input. I wouldn’t go beyond stage 1 if I were to do it. I still want a reliable daily drivable car.

mhoran89

you're very welcome. I chose APR because it was fairly inexpensive and I have used them on 3 prior cars and never had any issues. why change anything if it isn't broke? I also have no need to change MAPs as I just opted for the 93 octane file and left it at that.

Dan99

Personally, I believe that having a matched ECU and TCU tune is important. I have experience with both APR and 034 with and without the TCU tune and, for me, it's essential. The TCU tunes address safety issues for the added power and modify shift points to take advantage of the new power curve.

mhoran89

what "safety issues" are you referring to? What a TCU tune does is allow the ECU to go past what a stage 1 ECU tune allows because the TCU holds back values. If anything, a stage 1 ECU w/o touching the TCU is better for long term reliability and drivability. Stage 1 ECU tunes have been around a long time. On a DCT I could see wanting a TCU tune and tons of the VW golf R guys do those before anything else... but with a true 8-speed ZF trans and having similar transmissions in 4 different APR stage 1 (and one was stage 2) tuned cars with only ECU tunes I have never found it lacking. I have not tuned a TCU on any of my vehicles yet...

Dan99

For example, APR says this about the TCU for the Dual Clutch transmissions: ...Increased clutch torque limits... Temperature management optimized...

https://www.goapr.com/products/softw.../TCU-DL501-MLB

And, 034 says this about their Stage 1 tune for the ZF: "...034Motorsport’s proprietary calibrations for the AL552 TCU safely and effectively raise the torque limits of the ZF8, allowing your car to make use of Stage 1/1+ Performance Software..."

https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...ng-bundle.html

This 034 video explains that the ZF transmission communicates with the engine to reduce torque if the transmission limits are exceeded and that is addressed by the TCU tune. I suppose this could be why some who run the APR tune have experienced limp mode...

mhoran89

APR does not make a TCU tune for any vehicle with a ZF 8-speed true automatic transmission. this not only applies to the B9 but also the 4M Q7, D4 A8/S8, C7 A6/A7, etc. For dual clutch I do believe the make something for the 7 speed DCT in the C7 S6 & S7 models.

While I get where you are coming from... what limp mode are you talking about? I have beat on my car for over a year with a stage 1 APR tune with no issues. launched it many times at the 1/4 mile strip, etc. I am unaware of anyone who has stage 1 tuned a B9 ECU experience "limp mode" because they have not tuned their TCU...

on the RS5 in a severe use scenario on a track or doing drag passes I could see this happening... but then again one should have replaced intercoolers, heat exchangers, run a lower temp thermostat, etc. on a street driven stage 1 ECU flashed car I don't really think anyone is seeing "limp mode"

JohnEnglish

034 also said that with tunes that don't use a TCU, the ECU either misreports torque numbers to the transmission or doesn't communicate with it at all. That forces the transmission to become reactive as it expects one set of torque values but receives another. With a TCU tune the transmission knows what torque values to expect so it can properly set the clamping pressure on the clutch packs.

Dan99

I don't want to fight over this. I'm just the messenger. Regarding the ZF, watch the 034 youtube video. I found it to be credible. While it is a video on the RS5, it is the same transmission and tune for the S4/S5.

My personal experience with an APR tune was that I had the ECU Stage 2 and TCU tune on a B8.5 S4. The TCU tune completely transformed the operation of the transmission for the better in multiple ways. It shifted faster but smoother and raised the shift points to take advantage of the new power curve from the ECU tune. I also found comfort in their claim that they improved the power handling capabilities of the transmission. I had no way to verify that, but it was their claim, not mine.

Regarding the APR tune for the B9, it bothered me that they did not do the same thing for the TCU. After all, most tunes raise the torque level above the torque rating for the AL552 ZF8 transmission that is in the B9 cars. Regarding limp mode, I have not kept notes but I have seen posts either here or at audizine from people who have experienced limp mode with ECU-only tunes (not necessarily APR). Finally, I don't know APR's motivation, but they announced on audizine that they are pursuing a TCU tune for the ZF. While my past experience with APR was good, they seem to get products to market much slower than in the past, and I did not want to wait.

After I saw the 034 video (above) it reinforced my positive past experience with the APR TCU tune, and increased my hesitancy to get any tune, including APR, without a compatible TCU tune, so I chose the 034 ECU and TCU tune over the APR ECU-only tune.

Again, I'm just reporting what the tuning companies have said. Perhaps it's marketing BS, but it makes sense to me. I made my choice of tunes based on the availability of a companion TCU tune, but you don't have to.