Well, at least the R8 is getting killer reviews... maybe when they plop that
06-17-2007, 04:59 AM
#41
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BMW were close to extinction in 1969, and the 2002 saved them.
Audi is probably at BMW's position when they launched the 1st M5 in the late 1980's.
They don't really have that much history on performance, only getting really starting at the first 3.0 CSL for production cars.
They don't really have that much history on performance, only getting really starting at the first 3.0 CSL for production cars.
06-17-2007, 08:26 PM
#42
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No twin turbo or triplecharged V8 for the B8 RS 4 and RS 5
With a twin turbo or triplecharged (the latter with a supercharger and twin turbos in the same engine) 4.2L V8, the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 would surpass the C7 S6 and S7 in hp and torque for $5K-10K less than the C7 S6 and S7. The S6 and S7 would end up being discontinued for sure.
Instead, the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 will have either a 4.2L V8 (from Audi) or 4.5L V8 (from Porsche) with regular aspiration, 8,200 or 8,250 RPM redline, FSI, valvelift and (if 4.2L V8 from Audi) 420/426 SAE/DIN hp/313 kw and 332 lbs/ft of torque/450 nm or (if 4.5L V8 from Porsche) 450/456 SAE/DIN hp/336 kw and 354 lbs/ft of torque/480 nm.
Besides, even if there is a six-speed manual transmission that can safely and reliably handle 450-465 lbs/ft of torque/610-630 nm (which is what Audi's twin turbo or triplecharged 4.2L FSI VL V8 with 7,000, 7,200 or 7,500 RPM redline would have to produce for marketing reasons), Audi would never use it for any vehicle on the B8 platform because of high cost and the fact that it would be too big to fit into the B8 platform, even with all of the following being all new: firewall, floor-pan and transmission tunnel.
I am sorry that I have to rain on your parade, nirad, but this is reality. Very often, reality sucks. But we have to deal with that no matter what. The reality of the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 not getting a forced fed 4.2L V8 is no exception to this, I am afraid. So just deal with it, comprende.
Instead, the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 will have either a 4.2L V8 (from Audi) or 4.5L V8 (from Porsche) with regular aspiration, 8,200 or 8,250 RPM redline, FSI, valvelift and (if 4.2L V8 from Audi) 420/426 SAE/DIN hp/313 kw and 332 lbs/ft of torque/450 nm or (if 4.5L V8 from Porsche) 450/456 SAE/DIN hp/336 kw and 354 lbs/ft of torque/480 nm.
Besides, even if there is a six-speed manual transmission that can safely and reliably handle 450-465 lbs/ft of torque/610-630 nm (which is what Audi's twin turbo or triplecharged 4.2L FSI VL V8 with 7,000, 7,200 or 7,500 RPM redline would have to produce for marketing reasons), Audi would never use it for any vehicle on the B8 platform because of high cost and the fact that it would be too big to fit into the B8 platform, even with all of the following being all new: firewall, floor-pan and transmission tunnel.
I am sorry that I have to rain on your parade, nirad, but this is reality. Very often, reality sucks. But we have to deal with that no matter what. The reality of the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 not getting a forced fed 4.2L V8 is no exception to this, I am afraid. So just deal with it, comprende.
06-17-2007, 08:35 PM
#43
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Re: some of the BMW fans are hilarious
Those BMW owners, like many other BMW owners out there, are snobby, conceited, stuck up BMW owners.
Of course, there are also many BMW owners that are classy, respectful and respectable BMW owners. I am extremely proud to say that our very own schnellmb is a classy, respectful and respectable BMW owner. I am sure that schnellmb will be extremely happy to see that I am acknowledging this.
As Chris Tucker's smokey character in the movie Friday (1995) would say, you know this, man.
Of course, there are also many BMW owners that are classy, respectful and respectable BMW owners. I am extremely proud to say that our very own schnellmb is a classy, respectful and respectable BMW owner. I am sure that schnellmb will be extremely happy to see that I am acknowledging this.
As Chris Tucker's smokey character in the movie Friday (1995) would say, you know this, man.
06-17-2007, 09:52 PM
#44
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agreed.
I did only say "some" after all...
A couple of my friends have bimmers and I've had a chance to check them out. They are great cars. Performance -- good, styling -- subjective. A few people who act like complete tools ruin the reputation for the majority.
What is comical is the notion that no other auto manufacturer can come even close to a bmw. Most of the people that talk that nonsense are not car people. Uninformed, ignorant or status chasers. There was a time when a 3 series or 7 series were the safe bets, but those days are over. There are more than worthy alternatives now.
A couple of my friends have bimmers and I've had a chance to check them out. They are great cars. Performance -- good, styling -- subjective. A few people who act like complete tools ruin the reputation for the majority.
What is comical is the notion that no other auto manufacturer can come even close to a bmw. Most of the people that talk that nonsense are not car people. Uninformed, ignorant or status chasers. There was a time when a 3 series or 7 series were the safe bets, but those days are over. There are more than worthy alternatives now.
06-18-2007, 09:58 AM
#45
hey, i'm just going by what i've read
not that car magazines are known for their honesty<ul><li><a href="http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_car.php?sid=701&page=1">http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/secret_new_car.php?sid=701&page=1</a</li></ul>
06-18-2007, 11:20 AM
#46
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Curious Timbilt, where are you getting the info about a Porsche engine in the RS4/RS5?
Seems more a remote possibility than Audi going with forced induction IMO. Obviously a lot of speculation out there but many reliable sources speaking of forced induction rather than not.
06-18-2007, 01:55 PM
#47
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Here is why the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 will not have forced induction
If forced induction is used for the V8 in the RS 4 and RS 5, then the only transmission that will be used is DSG.
That will hurt sales of the next RS 4 and RS 5 severly as most people who buy them will want a six-speed manual transmission.
Or, the next S6 and S7 would also end up being discontinued because a force fed V8 in the next RS 4 and RS 5 would have more hp, more torque, much quicker acceleration and cost $5K-10K less than the next S6 and S7.
The only six speed manual transmissions that can safely and reliably handle the 450-465 lbs/ft of torque that a forced fed 4.2L V8 would have to produce will never fit in the B8 platform without a significant increase in the following: size, weight and cost, even with an all new firewall, all new floorpan and all new transmission tunnel.
Unless the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 are 250-300 pounds lighter than the B8 S4 and S5 worldwide with the same regularly aspirated 4.2L FSI VL V8 engine but with higher revs (8,200 or 8,250 RPM redline for the next RS 4 and RS 5 vs. 7,000 or 7,200 RPM redline for the next S4 and S5, 71 more SAE hp/72 more DIN hp/63 more kw in the next RS 4 and RS 5 than in the next S4 and S5, and a mere 7 lbs/ft more torque/10 more nm in the next RS 4 and RS 5 than in the next S4 and S5), the next RS 4 and RS 5 will have to have a regularly aspirated Porsche V8 with 4.5L of displacement, FSI, valvelift, 8,200 or 8,250 RPM redline, 450/456 SAE/DIN hp/336 kw and 354 lbs/ft of torque/480 nm.
Even then, the next RS 4 and RS 5 will have to be 150-200 pounds lighter than the next S4 and S5 so that the small torque gap between the S models and RS models on the B8 platform feels much, much larger.
FWIW, the 1992-1994 Mercedes 500E/E500 had the Porsche 928's V8 with 5L of displacement. So why not a Porsche V8 for the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 with 4.5L of displacement?
Yes, weight savings are costly, but far less costly than significantly increasing the following on any plaform: cost, weight and size. But the Porsche V8 (with regular aspiration) would not be all that costly. At least very little more so or no more so than a regularly aspirated Audi V8,. The Porsche V8 with regular aspiration would definitely be much less costly than the Audi V8 with forced induction.
That will hurt sales of the next RS 4 and RS 5 severly as most people who buy them will want a six-speed manual transmission.
Or, the next S6 and S7 would also end up being discontinued because a force fed V8 in the next RS 4 and RS 5 would have more hp, more torque, much quicker acceleration and cost $5K-10K less than the next S6 and S7.
The only six speed manual transmissions that can safely and reliably handle the 450-465 lbs/ft of torque that a forced fed 4.2L V8 would have to produce will never fit in the B8 platform without a significant increase in the following: size, weight and cost, even with an all new firewall, all new floorpan and all new transmission tunnel.
Unless the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 are 250-300 pounds lighter than the B8 S4 and S5 worldwide with the same regularly aspirated 4.2L FSI VL V8 engine but with higher revs (8,200 or 8,250 RPM redline for the next RS 4 and RS 5 vs. 7,000 or 7,200 RPM redline for the next S4 and S5, 71 more SAE hp/72 more DIN hp/63 more kw in the next RS 4 and RS 5 than in the next S4 and S5, and a mere 7 lbs/ft more torque/10 more nm in the next RS 4 and RS 5 than in the next S4 and S5), the next RS 4 and RS 5 will have to have a regularly aspirated Porsche V8 with 4.5L of displacement, FSI, valvelift, 8,200 or 8,250 RPM redline, 450/456 SAE/DIN hp/336 kw and 354 lbs/ft of torque/480 nm.
Even then, the next RS 4 and RS 5 will have to be 150-200 pounds lighter than the next S4 and S5 so that the small torque gap between the S models and RS models on the B8 platform feels much, much larger.
FWIW, the 1992-1994 Mercedes 500E/E500 had the Porsche 928's V8 with 5L of displacement. So why not a Porsche V8 for the B8 RS 4 and RS 5 with 4.5L of displacement?
Yes, weight savings are costly, but far less costly than significantly increasing the following on any plaform: cost, weight and size. But the Porsche V8 (with regular aspiration) would not be all that costly. At least very little more so or no more so than a regularly aspirated Audi V8,. The Porsche V8 with regular aspiration would definitely be much less costly than the Audi V8 with forced induction.
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