Twisted5000

So IA has a stage II Chip. 2Bennett has "2" chips... Both the high performance ones, as I understand it, geared toward running the RS2 turbo. Cool.

Apparrently, if the whole computer were to be modified, its capable of producing more power. But I thought (one) of the biggest advantages to EFI was that it could provide the fuel that the CIS couldn't. (or at least easily, eg. Toxcheap)

Is there something I'm missing? I had thought it was the physical CIS components limiting the fuel, and thus more power. Is it the computer itself that's doing it?

Just been thinking is all, but now I feel like I've had the wrong impression all this time. Have a goodnight everyone.

Will Ng

Hehehh, funny, I posted the same question further down. :-)

selfproclaimedv8buff

i know a guy who ran insane amounts of boost on a audi 5000. 24 psi to be exact. now some people may or may not believe him but i'm just stating what he told me b/c the car had blown a headgasket before i even knew him. he didn't have the bigger oil cooler attached. from what he told me, the CIS system has enough pressure to keep up to that much power but its a matter of pulling some pins and removing some flaps on the CIS system. he told me there's a flap that restricts flow that he removed and after that he wasn't having any fuel problems. he is also known for doing odd-ball rigging to make things work but they do work. if he didn't live 60 miles away i'd go up there and look at the car and make him point out exactly what he did, then we would all have some crazy fast cars but until then, we scrutinize.

dans5ktq

As far as I know CIS is a mechanical fueling system. The chip is basically to change the wastegate frequency to attain higher boost and still keep the rpm cutoff. Someone chim in if I'm missing something, which I'm sure I am.

Will Ng

No, dropping in a 'stage 2' chip into a MAC11 or MAC14 can NOT bring about extra HP.
Without the rest of a stage 2 ensemble of larger flowing turbo, CIS fuel delivery increase, ECM rework...the chip does nothing alone.

There are only 3 or 4 viable CIS fuel mods, IMO.

A sixth supplementary injector.
Alter CIS's reference pressure with a rising rate fuel regulator.
Alter CIS's reference pressure with a secondary fuel pump.
An extensive rework of the fuel distributor as 10VTurboPower's friend did.

This last solution seems the most difficult, and the first is the simplest and cheapest.
And since I am a follower of the LowCash Racing philosophy, I like simple and cheap. Besides, I'm not born German, which is probably required to do the fuel distributor mod.


Sounds like you are thinking about future plans for you new quattro. Regardless of Toxcheap's accomplishments, and I fully respect his work...EFI is still the best upgrade no matter how you look at it.

Twisted5000

You said you have the Stage 2 chip which is cool. I assume you also have the turbo from IA. Can you tell me, what else exactly came from IA that you installed with your car?

Obviously some sort of computer modification took place, but what else?

(I'm asking, because I think Will is right, in that the real power mods for CIS require modification of the injection components in one way or another.)

Sooner or later I'll probably call Ned, or whoever owns IA nowadays, and inquire to them , but im afraid of sounding like some moron, if its a simple answer.

So you get, a reworked compter, new turbo, and what else? Anything? You must get something, or as Will says (and he's MUCH smarter then I am : ) there wouldnt be the big power gains. Right? Or I very well may be wrong, I suppose.

Maybe I'm just slow to grasp the concept. Thanks for the comments... I'm hoping to understand better. (BTW, what does a Stg. 2 "system" cost?)

Twisted5000

Yeah, I'm looking at options for the new 5k.

I know what you mean, that the EFI is by far the best option. I understand that well. But my dilemma is a bit different. See, I can make whatever money I need to (through doing the kind of auto work I Know) without much problem... but EFI requires custom fabrication, and (the bad part) Computer savvyness.

What I'm saying is, I'm scared as hell that I'd get this system installed and both not know how, and without a doubt, incorrectly... try to tune it. So if I can pay, IA, well whatever price, and get (close) to the same Performance, but they do the work that I admittedly can't understand, I think I'd be much better off.

On that note, I guess Im at a rock & a rather hard place. Thanks for the help though, you're a good guy.

boxerfan

The ECU controls the WGFV and thus the boost as controlled by the WG. Also, as Will stated, the ECU maintains the fuel cut out in case of emergency and to prevent serious engine damage. Damage that we all risk when we crank the boost. Heck, massive boost levels will certainly shorten the life of a great many components.

The ECU also, at least it is my understanding, controls the advance. The R-mod on top of the chip will allow crazy boost levels along with advanced timing. Too much advance can lead to detonation when running on the ragged edge.

I'm set for the 6th injector. As Will and I have discussed before I am also going to run a 6th injector that will kick in either at WOT or at a specified boost level by means of a pressure switch. I have another pressure switch that I will set to kick in about 0.1 bar before the extra injector opens up. The result is improved volume/min from the pump supplying both the shimmed CIS dizzy and the 6th injector when maximum boost is required. I am going to install a potentiometer for controlling the maximum boost level via the ECU cut out and this will also alter the timing advance curve. No it isn't the most elegant way to squeeze more power out of these motors, but hey, it is a 15 year old sedan. And FrankenAudi has seen better days. I am going to get all this operational by late spring.

With a little luck I hope to get FrankenAudi ready for the Targa Newfoundland next September. There were simply too many BMWs entered last year. Porsche is always well represented by their marque enthusiasts. But Audi... nowhere to be seen from what I know so far. Frank(enAudi) will be getting a roll cage and 5-point harnesses.

SteveAngry

CIS can support up to 15-16 psi mechanically stock.

IA doesn't do anything to accomadate any more fuel with it's Stage 2 chip AFAIK.

They supply more ignition timing advance along with a more efficent turbo that will flow more CFM higher in the rev range.

Steve
Michigan

SteveAngry

He's supposed to have a RS2 but we think the PO sold it before he sold the car...

You should get ahold of Alex at IA and grill him for info.

Steve
Michigan