I think I've over-analyzed my car decision. I now find myself unable to think clearly about this decision, so I'm asking the kind folks on this board to help. I know cars in this price range are always somewhat of a compromise, I'm just having trouble with some of the compromises...<p>I've wanted an A4 since I first read about and saw one in a C&D comparison test in 1996/late 95 (can't remember). The more I read about it, the more I wanted one. I couldn't afford one back then but, thankfully, can now. in 1997, when the 1.8 came out, I drove a 1.8T and a 318i, just for the hell of it. While I thought the BMW handled a little better, I was pretty underwhelmed by the car. The Audi excited me, even though the example I drove was an automatic (the BMW was a stick). I've read this board since 1996, and have read every a4 review I could get my hands on. <p>Fast forward to 1998/early 99. I'm ready to start looking seriously. With checkbook in hand (figuratively), I went to the Audi dealer (Pray) and test drove a 1.8TQM (no S). The test-drive loop kind of sucked, but some impressions I took away were: The steering really is a little too light, the engine revs too high on the highway, and the shifter/clutch didn't make me want to use them. I test drove a 2.8QMS, because they had one on the lot, and was curious to see if I'd like it better. The car had not yet been prepped, and it rattled so much that I found it distracting (packing materials I hope) but I did like the engine sound, and power more than the 1.8(I know, I know, just chip it..) <p>Drove out of the Audi dealer, wonder why I didn't love the test drives as much as I had 2 years ago. I drove past the BMW dealer, and decided to give the 323 a look. I immediately loved the sound of the straight-six, and the feel of the gearshift (I know its a cliche, but BMW really does have anice shifter). I found myself really wanting to work the car, and having fun with it. Hmmm. I never considered a BMW. The idea of the Audi was so much more alluring (high-tech, quattro, underdog, austere, classy, "high-zoot" (as a car mag put it). But this BMW really got me thinking. The sticker and dealer got me thinking in a different way-- first off, you can't get cloth. I don't like the idea of paying for cold leather, and hate the idea of leatherette. Secondly, this dealer said that he would not order a car without a sunroof. Hmmm. Now I'm paying a lot of money for 2 things Ireally don't want. Audi was more flexible about this. I'm thinking: this BMW is about as much as a 2.8Q, so if I'm willing to spring for this car, I should seriously consider the 2.8. I like the sound of the engine better, but still not as much as that straight-six. In the midst of this BMW love-fest that I seem to be having, I continue to read the A4 forum.... but now I'm wondering if I like the idea of the Audi better, but the driving experience of the BMW better. I'm also thinking that my price range is more in 1.8 territory than 323 or 2.8 land. And, rear wheel drive, as much as I love it (my old Volvo has it), is dicey in bad weather. Now I'm hoping that the 99.5 a4 will miraculously solve this problem. Audi will put 180 horses on the quattro version, allowing them to gear it lower, so that it revs lower on the highway. While they're at it, they'll move those window controls forward, and add balance shafts to the 1.8 to make it really smooth (like the Saab 9000T's 2.3). I guess what it comes down to is: steering, shifting, braking, engine sound, solidity, cloth seats, no sunroof, price. The first 4 the BMW gets the nod, the rest is Audi. Acceleration is important, but not at the top of my list. Maybe I should just get a Miata (you can tell that I'm fast becoming deranged). <p>Or, I could just pretend that its 1997 again, and the BMW really sucks. What do you guys think? Especially those who bought recently, and faced a similar decision. I think I just need a long test drive in each car to make a decision (> 1 hour on twisties and highway). Anyone know how I can get a dealer to give me a real test-drive? <p>

I purchased a new 325i back in '93 and was happy with it for about 3 months. I had a series of problems such as bad seat belts, window controls, odd enigne idle...I had it all fixed but they re-occured. It was very annoying! I had numberous problems from then until Nov of 1997...My thermostat went out and caused the radiator to literally 'explode'. I had coolant flying 50 feet in the air. (I'm not sure where you live but this happened at Fashion Island in Newport Beach, CA) A somewhat exclusive area. I guess that was what broke the camel's back. I had it fixed but engine temperature continued to get higher than normal. During my Christmas vacation from work, I decided I was going to get a new car. First car that popped into my head was an A4. The day after New Years, drove down to the dealer, (someone ordered a siver a4 with sport pkg, conv. pkg, and trip comp but was not ready to buy) traded in my car and drove home in the new A4...Never did I or do I regret getting the A4. It been a year almost and I have to admit...I had couple of minor problems...head light washer pump broke, cup holder broke and broke the wastegate rod (neuspeed chip may or may not have caused it) this problem should not be an issue with newer 1.8 turbos. Stock 1.8Ts were braking their wastgate rods...<p>I guess what I'm trying to say is, I love my A4 more than I liked my 325. On the other hand, I'm buying my wife a 323 next year...go figure...do whatever your heart desires...my was desiring an A4, my wife's is desiring a 323<p>Good luck<br>MK 1.8TMS (Neuspeed Chip, Clear corner/sides, waiting to purchase the K04 kit and MAK wheels)<br>Oh and tired because its 3:40 AM!!!

I just had the same exact comparison. I too looked at an Audi 1.8 Quattro with a five speed and a 323 BMW. The price difference was not all that great considering BMW's European delivery program, saving you approximately 7% (Audi does not offer this). When all was said and done the Audi cost approximately 1, maybe 2 thousand dollars less. I liked the BMW's power more than the Audi's. Steering was precise and responsive in both cars. Audi has a huge advantage with the AWD. My local Audi dealer had a nice, black A4 Quattro with a 5 speed in stock, the BMW I had to order and wait about 2-4 months before ever seeing the car. Guess who won? I bought the Audi and am so very happy with the car. After approximately 700 miles the engine tends to open up a bit and actually feels a bit faster to me. Had my budget allowed, I would have bought a 328 BMW over the 1.8 or 2.8 Audi.

I looked at both the 328 and the A4. Money was not a 1st concern but rather handling, technology and performance with styling thrown in. While I preferred a manuel trans we have several and my wife wanted the Automatic. I purchased a 2.8 last January and with 4500 miles I couldn't be happier. My son has a 328 and while certainly a nice car, we both prefer the A4 hands down. The Tip is no stick and dosn't pretend to be but aside from that there is no comparison. The A4 looks better, rides better, handles better and the intertior is without question more appealing and of better quality than the 328. Qbviously there is no comparison to the quattro. If someone wants more straight line performance I can think of a number of units that out perform both the A4 and the 328. Everyone should have one of these cars.

John, I did the same thing; was looking for a new toy and got hung up trying to decide among A4-TQMS, 323is and Miata. Was fortunate to be shopping in Dallas;all three stores are adjacent (on North Central Expressway). Got a brainstorm one day and arranged appointments with all three dealers...drove all three cars back-to-back. After that it was v-easy decision.<p>The A4 is very sporty but not as harsh riding or noisy (convertible+expressway+heavy traffic=deafening) as the Miata. The 323is might have the edge on ultimate handling but I felt the steering, the slick feel of the gear-changes and the easy to modulate/progressive clutch take-up of the A4 made it much more fun to drive. In fact, after the back-to-back comparison, I was surprised to find how disappointed I was with the 323. Add in the quattro and lower price of the A4 and it became an easy decision.<p>Good Luck! <p><br> <br>

If I were in your shoes, I would personally get an A4 2.8 quattro, sport, cloth sport seats, no sunroof... Things to consider:<p>1. Pray Audi is, I believe, the largest dealer in the USA. That means that they can get virtually any car you want pretty easily. Experience on this board has been mixed with the dealership, but if you do have any issues, you can go straight to the top.<p>2. The 2.8 is, in my opinion, a more refined car than the 1.8T. If you want to chip, modify, etc. the car, get the 1.8T. But me, I wanted a car I could be happy with with little or no modification.<p>3. The BMW will be a more refined (overall) auto with better resale value. That also said, you're still looking at over $40K for a fully loaded 328i without sunroof ($1K), leather ($1.5K) and xenon lamps ($500). So you still get cold seats...<p>-josh<br>98.5 2.8qms

John, I heavily debated both cars as well. I chose the A4 (a loaded 2.8, Q, Sport package and Seats, leather, ...) because of price and because I fell in love with the car. My orig. dealer let me take the car alone for over an hour. If they want to sell a car, they shouldn't have a problem with this. If they do.... go else where!! I love the look of the new 3-series but I don't have close to 40K for a comparably equipped car. And... looks aren't everything (at least with cars).<p>For me, the hardest part was finding a 2.8 5-speed in the Seattle area. Ended up driving 100mi to a different dealer. But in the end I've got a car that really excites me and I love to drive. What a treat!! Especially after lugging around a Toyota 4Runner for 2 years (now that was a mistake).<p>Best of luck in your decision.<br>-Scott

John<p>Your thoughts are intersting. I am glad to hear<br>I am not the only one facing such decisions on the 323i - A4 question. I have a similar<br>dilemma - I am keen on an A4 1.8TQMS with Sports<br>seats, and have driven various A4 1.8TQ's so<br>far. I am also keen on the 323i, but it costs<br>a lot more, closer to an A4 2.8. I do not want<br>leather, and I wince at the thought of plastic,<br>sorry vinyl, sorry leatherette seats on a car.<br>I want cloth - and on BMW that is no option!<p>The A4 for me wins on: cloth seats,looks, price,<br>AWD, reasonably priced sports package. But, I<br>would like the BMW straight six engine sound.<p>My dilemma is that the 323i is closer to the<br>A4 2.8 in price, but I am comparing to the<br>1.8T. The 1.8T engine seemed willing enough<br>to me, but didn't sound special.<p>My next thought is to look into an A4 2.8.<p>Regards<p>Barry