Took my baby back to Brookfield International Autos this morning. The service guy did not look too pleased to see me. I verrified that the last time I was there (three days ago) I was told that there was nothing wrong with my heated mirrors and that they were only on when the temperature was below 40 deg and rear defroster on. I showed him a copy of the 98's wiring diagram and showed the mirrors being connected to 12V at all times. I removed one of the mirrors and measured 12V. The resistance of the passenger mirror was 180 ohms and asked to measure a working mirror. <p>At this point the service guy pulled out a IR thermometer and measured the passenger side mirror heating from 60 deg to 61 deg and the drivers side heating from 60 deg to 71 deg F. He said that he would have to check with the tech who checked my car three days ago and get back to me. He bet me "ten bucks and a doughnut" that they never stock those parts. He's never seen a failed mirror before.<p>This is under warranty, right? "Yes." You get paid for parts and labor, right? "Yes." What's the problem!? Please fix my car.<p>David

Where did you get the wiring diagram?

David<br>Sorry to hear that your dealer is giving you some static about those mirrors. I just mentioned the unheated mirrors to my dealer, Sunnyside in Cleveland, and they bent over backwards to get me satisified. They took two mirrors off a car in stock and I was out of there in 15 minutes. They could have ordered them and asked me to come back but their solution was the better one. Sunnyside has been extremely professional and very egar to keep me happy. (This is the way all dealers should be)<br>Roy M 2.8q Tip (Highly recommend Sunnyside especially the service dept)

Anybody have problems with the heaters in the after-mkt sport mirrors (Rich Q, others)? I have 11k miles and my heaters still work (knock on glass...), but I'm thinking about installing the sport (M3 style) mirrors.<p>TIA,<br>CraigB

nt

My dealer is now reporting that the late model 97 A4's mirrors are exhibiting the exact same behavior as my defunct mirrors. To him, that means my mirrors are working! You don't suppose that THOSE mirrors burnt out too??? Nooooooooooo sir! (sarcasm)<p>Could someone PLEASE measure the temperature of your functioning mirrors? My drivers side mirror was measured at 70 deg this morning (up 10 from 60). I know they are supposed to be HOT, and 70 is not hot. <p>So much for AOA call # 1. Here comes call # 2.<p>David

David,<p>This whole topic is frustrating! I'm interested in the resolution of your problem, since I'm in the same boat with my 98 (March) 1.8T. My dealer has sworn that the mirrors are working as designed (though I didn't press him on how the technician checked). He states that they are regulated by the climate control module and don't work until it's below 40 degrees F (you'll also see the snowflake indicator on the climate control system at this temperature). <p>This is confusing because of the many 1998 A4 owners here who have stated that their mirrors are HOT all the time. Could it be that Audi switched design mid year? Or could it be that only the cold-weather package has the temp-actuated design?<p>My dealer further said that with this design the mirrors never get HOT, but only warm. This is because these mirrors have an electrically condusive COATING, rather than heating elements, and the coating gets only needs to be modestly warm to de-ice (again, below 40 degrees). <p>Therefore, according to the dealer, it wouldn't help to re-wire the mirrors to the defroster switch because they will never warm enough to clear morning condensation (morning dew at 55-60 degrees is the main problem I have).<p>So what and whom to believe? Yes, it's possible that Audi has changed design midstream. It's also possible that the dealers don't know what they're talking about.<p>Have you talked to AoA yet? Let me know the phone number to call, and I'll tackle it too. Somebody there should at least be able to confirm HOW they are SUPPOSED to work!<p>Erik<br>98 (March build) 1.8tqms, cold weather package.<p>

If I remember correctly your previous post stated that your driver side mirror measured 27 ohms, and now the dealer read a high of 70 degrees F!<p>New mirrors are 6 to 9 ohms! Have him measure the temperature again with the new mirrors installed and let us know here the temps indicated. We will be able to correlate.<p>Also what was the ambient temperature during the IR measurement?

I did a test with my 98 2.8Q (June 97 production). Outside temp was about 57. Turned on ignition and waited. Mirrors didn't heat. Turned on defroster switch. Mirrors became warm after a couple of minutes. (Heat was noticeable by touch only at the top of each mirror. It must spread from there). So, the defroster switch seems to be involved in my car. I've also checked the mirrors after driving to work in under 40 degree weather, without the defroster on, and have never detected any heat.<p>On the assembly line, the workers don't have options on how to hook things up. They robot-like hook one connector to another. This is really strange how different cars seem to be working in different ways.

I have rewired my mirrors(both new)to come on with the defroster switch. At this moment my outside ambient temperature is 39 degrees F, and the driver mirror reads 82 degrees F after a 3 minute warm up. Definitely HOT!<br>

Temp was about 60 deg F inside the service area. I asked Jeff if he could measure the temp on another A4. "No, not right now." Could we walk over to the lot with a salesperson and measure the temp on a new A4 over there? "No." Can you check another A4? "Well see. Not right now." Can you check the resistance of a new mirror from stock? "I have never seen a mirror fail before. I bet you ten bucks and a doughnut that we don't stock them!"<p>I wanted to ask him what his ****ing problem was. I kept my cool and tried to treat him fairly and be very polite. Unfortunately, he now treats me with so much enthusiasm and good cheer that one might consider it SARCASTIC. This dealership has an attitude problem.<p>David

...turn on the outside temp display? Is there any way to separate mirror control and temp display? I like seeing how stinking cold it gets here in WI. (I can't believe I moved here...)<p>David

After less than a year with the first set of replacements. Mine were so hot this summer that I almost burned my finger on my driver's mirror one day. No exaggeration, it was THAT hot.<p>Tom<br>'97 2.8q

I've yet to go to ANY dealership where they have customer relations issues. American, Japanese, German, whatever.<br>I worked for a couple months for a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury & BMW dealer one summer when I was in college.<br>Of all things, I was the unlucky soul who got to call on customers after they had service. Let me tell you.....I had to quit and get a "better" job after 2 months or I was going to go insane.<br>It's not easy to deal with demanding customers all day long. No offense David, but can you imagine how YOU would react to someone coming in your office and demanding stuff immediately? Yeah, I know about customer service but it's hard for them too. I'm sure they hate their jobs and would like to quit if they could. I know the dealer I go to has really 'effed up' sometimes and I've gotten mad. Overall, I know the guys there are trying the best they can with what they have.<br>One service rep told me "off the record" that it's just hard to "find good help" in the way of good Audi techs, etc.<br>So, yes.....many dealers have attitudes but it's probably been developed over time of having to deal with bad employees and really pissy customers.<br>I for one, am very glad I don't have their job!<br>No flame intended, just an observation. :)<br>-Cathleen

Yes, the turning on the defroster switch activates the outside temp display. Just hit the rear defroster switch once to read the outside temp and hit it again to turn it off... I cut the #9 fuse wire in back of the fuse panel. Inserted a Radio Shack 12 volt, 30A relay between the cut ends. Tapped the wire going to the rear defroster grid to control the relay. That simple!<p>The mirrors should last 100 years now!<p>