I'm looking to buy my first Audi, and going through the dilemna of 1.8T vs. 2.8. The considerations (aside from a few thousand bucks) are living in denver (5280 feet). I have a 4 cylinder 93.5 Infinity G20 (140 bps) which inorder to climb the mountains has to rev all the way up, and with passengers in the car is a total dog on the interstate. I told myself my next car would be a 6 cylinder, but with the turbo not losing power at altitute (and the possiblity of a chip) I'm not sure. So, should I be looking at a 1.8T, or the 2.8 to keep my happy?<p>Any suggestions / considerations / comments welcome.<br>Also, if I'm priced out of the new car market, how the the 2 valve per cylinder 2.8's perform?

Since I am an ex-Littleton resident, and an ex-Vail resident, I feel qualified to comment on this issue. IMHO, I would go for the 1.8T. It will be the least affected by the elevation. I would also chip the car. Nothing like a normally aspirated car running out of breath on a mountain pass :-(<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM<br>

I can speak for the 1.8T in CO. I live in Aurora and have a '98 1.8TqM (no chip...yet). I've been up I-70 numerous times since I got my car last March. From my experience, with 2 people, bikes and gear, you can cruise in 5th gear all the way up. You'll slow slightly at Floyd Hill, the climb out of Georgetown, and at the Eisenhower Tunnel, but not bad (you can still go 70 easily). If someone gets in your way and slows you, a simple drop into 4th gear and you're gone! From what I understand, turbos don't suffer in the altitude like normally aspirated engines do. There are quite a few Coloradans on the Forum, so you should get quite a few responses. I'm sure you'll be pleased with whatever you get.<p>CraigB

Any reliability problems with the turbos I should consider? I'd like to own the car for at least 5 or 6 years.<p>owners are finding the 1.8T with enough torque?

In terms of horsepower and engine performance, I believe that you lose approx 20% at altitude (meaning 5280 feet) and then aprox 5%-10% for each 1000 feet you go up from there. I have driven turbo cars at altitude for some time. You will really see the difference that forced induction makes when you are up around 14000 ft. During the Pikes Peak Hill climb drive, normally aspirated engines with larger displacement than my own suffered considerably more than I did. It's interesting to be driving to Mt. Evans behind a Mustang 5.0. <p>The stock 150 horsepower will be more than adequate and a modified unit will be outstanding. Glad to have another Colo A4 owner. Good luck with your purchase.<p>-Todd

The one thing that really surprised me when we drove through colorado this summer ( Through Steamboat Springs/Winter Park/Frasier ) was how well the 30V 2.8 did. It was a real kick to drive through the passes ( US 40 ). <p>Though I'd be kind of curious how much the turbo on the 1.8 helps since it's essentially a light pressure unit. <p>-randy<br>Ex-Boulder Resident.

I live in Denver, CO and have a '97 1.8TQM equipped w/ a Hoppen chip, K&N filter, and cat-back exhaust. I've had it on I-70 up the hill and through the Eisenhower tunnel a number of times. It works great. I can accelerate in 5th at any point on the highway. If I really want to accelerate, I drop it to 4th. I've done the trip w/ myself and 2 others in the car, and had more than adequate power. I can't speak to durability issues, as I have only about 10,000 miles on the engine and chip combination, but have had no problems to date.

...and didn't notice any loss of performance whatsoever. I was mentally comparing the trip in the 1.8tq to the same trip taken two years prior in a 6cyl Maxima (of a much older vintage, to be honest) and was surprised how strongly the 1.8t performed. My old Maxima was beyond anemic over 7,000 ft, despite having six cylinders chugging away. With four adults and luggage (a feat admittedly hard to duplicate in a 1.8t), the Maxima required a downshift to 2nd gear over Vail pass to keep the speed up over 40mph. The 1.8tq, however, zoomed happily along in 5th at highway speeds. <p>Sigh. Not the kind of difference one notices here in Michigan..... <p>Missing topography,<br>Peter<p><p>

I have a '98 1.8T quattro manual w/sport pkg. and although I'm not a skier, it's done great in the mountains and foothills so far. I notice power loss at altitude much more in my '87 BMW (2.5L I6). You're probably thinking something like: "My 140 HP G20 sucked; how much better can a low-pressure 150 HP be?" and the answer is: "Like night and day!" I drove the 1996 G20t, and it's no A4. Check out the differences in gearing (A4 1.8T has surreal pull, esp. in 1st) and torque delivery (at LEAST 154 lb-ft from 1750 rpm through 4600 rpm). Plus, the 150 figure is very conservative so as not to cannibalize sales of the higher-buck V6 model. As for the 12-valve, honestly I'd avoid it if I could afford to do so. Both newer engines are much better. <p>Good luck, and let us know what happens!<p>-- David F.<br>1.8TqMS<br>E30 325is

30 valves seems to help at altitude! Have noticed no problems up to 9000ft.

When we were at the test drive stage, the folks at Prestige were really good about just giving us the keys to an A4 and letting us go. They recommended we go into the mountains (just a short drive out 6th Ave or Colfax). Honestly, I was impressed with both motors but preferred the 1.8T, especially with the $4,000 savings. The torque "curve" of this engine is amazing. <p>Since that time, I've driven the car most at mile high altitudes but did take on trip up to Estes Park and Trail Ridge with 3 people in the car. I noticed no degradation in performance at all, but on Trail Ridge you're not doing any 5th gear cruising at all. This is all without a chip, by the way. I am planning on making the chip plunge in the Spring, but not because of lack of mountain performance. I just want a little more punch around town.<p>Andy

Well, I guess I'm a current Boulder resident, and I think the 1.8T is a kick to drive up here. My impression, and it is a subjective one, is that the torque peak is reached a little higher than spec, maybe 2200 RPM. But in order to reach max boost at such a low RPM it would seem that it has a fair amount of over capacity over most of the rev range. Like the other folks I would suggest you try 'em both. For me the 6 didn't impress as much as the difference in price (it was a 12V, so what do I know). Have Fun.

Your power peak will probably narrow, as it'll take more turbo RPMs to get the same amount of air, but you'll barely notice that compared to the loss in a non-turbo.<p>See: If it takes ten ficticious units of air to get to 7 psi at sea level with 100,000 turbo RPM, at altitude where the air is twice as thin it'll take twenty ficticious equvalent units of air. A non-turbo loses half the power, the Turbo will simply spool to 200,000 (or whatever it takes) to get back up to 7 psi of pressure. Theoretically, you'd lose no power.<p>Of course, there is a limit of efficiency with the turbo, so at a certain point it won't be able to make up for it any more because the little turbine can't push any more RPMs. But that's a small problem compared to the non-turbo running out of breath!

I agree! With the 30V, you may spend more time in 4th gear than in the 1.8, but you can still run at least 80 mph from Denver to Vail with NO effort!<br>You have to drive them both to decide.

I have been running my 98 1.8TQM with a Wett chip for almost a year now and have just over 23K miles on it. The engine runs beautifully and has TONS of torque. Like the other posts, I can run up any pass in the state with no problem. The turbo is simply amazing, especially at altitude.<p>I plan on putting on 25K miles a year and keeping the car for 8 years or more, so I think that sums up my stand on its reliability. In America there aren't too many high mileage cars with chips but in Europe there are plenty.<p>The 30V is a great motor and will make it up the passes just fine. It really depends what you are looking for. The 1.8T is more for the person that enjoys and active roll in driving while the 30V will please those that enjoy a more passive driving roll.<p>Which ever one you decide on....welcome to the Club!!

You'll see much more lag as the turbo gets up to speed, but when you're on boost past 2500rpm everything becomes allright. I've had my unchipped 1.8T Passat up many of the big hills in Colorado, usually full of people, and I was never in danger of being at/below the speed limit...<p>AJL<br>98 Passat 1.8T<br>