You have to pair these two cars tit for tat. If you put the sport package and quattro on the A4 1.8T, you gotta at least put the sport package on the 323i. Car and Driver testers are morons who fail to see the significance of this. After testing a base 323i against the fully loaded A4 1.8T QMS, the 323i still lost only by one point. If you want to declare this a victory, be my guest. I call it an unfair test with a tainted verdict. I would have much prefered to see them matched the same and seen the results then. I bet the farm the Bimmer would have kicked some major ass on the 1.8T with the sport package.<p>99 323i sport owner

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C&D probably tried to equalize price and not necessarily equipment level. (I haven't seen the article but my guess is that the A4 loaded and base 323 were close in price). If I have $29k to spend, which car is better? I think that's a logical comparison to make and therefore to test.<p>And how about the A4 2.8 and 328 comparison in C&D a few months ago? The 328 had 17 inch wheels while the A4 had 16 inch. The 328 won by 1 point - was that also not fair.<p>Tom<br>1.8TQMS Silver/Ecru

There is no winner if the test is tainted and unfair. You gotta equip the cars very similar, regardless of price. Sport package vs. sport package. Fwd vs. Rwd. The winner will be determined once a decent publication does a tit-for-tat test of both 323i sport vs. A4 1.8T QMS, or 328i sport vs. 2.8 QMS. Then I would not bitch and complain about unfair tests. Until then,.....<p>99 323i owner

Then look at the M3 Subaru Impreza RS2 comparison. The Impreza kicked the M3's a** all over the road and track, but the M3 still won, becuase it "rode like a Cadillac" compared to the RS2. Noone can figure how C & D tests. One minute they say they are for all out performance.... That is unless a Bimmer is getting outperformed. Then they are looking for ride quality. They are definitely a pro-Bimmer magazine, but I still subscribe.<p>G. Hale<br>'98.5 Pearl 2.8 QMS

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3 BMW's on C&D top 10 list. Where was the A4? Oh yeah, then the Ford Contour SVT beat the 1.8T in Edmunds.com as well. How interesting you are calling us defensive? Get real Klidge.<p>99 323i owner

Equip them tit for tat? Sorry but price is the great equalizer. Fact<br>of the matter is a decently equipped 323i is closer in price to an A4 2.8.<br>Moreover, BMW is unable to serve up a well equipped car for under<br>30k. If you beleive this tit for tat crap then I'd be happy to compare an<br>Aston Martin with a sport package against your choice of 3-series<br>and call if fair. And fwd/rwd??? Save us your rwd feelings of inadequacy.<br>The vast majority of people purchasing A4s get them with quattro; it<br>is a major selling point of the car. Just get over it, they're both great<br>cars. If you want a good six cylinder car with a more spartan interior and<br>rwd drive, and have 32k to throw at it, by all means buy a 323. If you<br>want a more plush interior with awd and a great 4 cylinder engine<br>and want to spend 26k, buy the audi. If you want to keep bitching and<br>moaning about your bimmer's tits and tats, get a shrink--your ego is<br>too much attached to your stick.

Who cares about equipment. Bottom line, both these cars are head to head!! If the BMW would've been equiped to your standards, maybe the A4 would've lost by one point. ONE FREAKIN POINT!! WHO CARES??? Or maybe the BMW would've tied the A4. I'm sure people wont go out and buy an A4 just becuase C&D rated it ONE POINT above a BMW!!! Jeez, man, get some self confidence! Just cuz someone rates your magnificent car below someone else's doesnt mean anything!! Both of these cars are great, and they all have their pros and cons. Just go with what you like, and stick with it, I dont care what a magazine sez about my car!! All I care about is that I like it!! NOT some stupid magazine!!! If you really like your BMW, you would'nt be here complaining about some stupid test!!! You'd think you made your choice, and it is the better one. I cannot belive how some people have gotten brainwashed by the media. REMEMBER, ITS ONE STUPID POINT!!!! NOT LIKE THE A4 BEAT IT BY 10 POINTS!!!! JEEZ!<p>-andrewt, getting off his soapbox. thank you.

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It's a damn national publication, Audi probably spent more money on advertising during that quarter and now they come in first place in test drive. Or who knows, maybe some person in a BMW cut off the reviewer on the way to the test drives so now he's out to destroy BMW. <p>In a few months, there is going to be a ton of comparo's of the M3 and S4, in one magizine the M3 will win and all of Audi folks are going to bitch about how if it had been snowing 6" the S4 would have beaten it because of quattro. Then in the next mag the S4 will win and all the BMW people will be complaining because the Audi was painted a better color and therefor effected the result.<p>I know to some people that this is life-and-death information, but let me tell you, LIFE WILL GO ON! I know, it seems impossible, but believe it or not, the world is not going to come to an end just because the car of your choice was beat out by one stupid little point.<p>No matter how much we bitch back-and-forth, my next car is still going to be an Audi and your next car is most likely going to be a BMW. Both are good cars, and I'm sure almost any of us would be happy to be driving either.<p>End of rant.<p>Matt<p><p>

Statements like "I bet the farm the Bimmer would have kicked some major ass on the 1.8T with the sport<br>package." ...on an Audi board will surely not win points and influence people here. If you think the 323i is better...fine...that is your prerogative...but don't try to start a flame war here. <p>Most of us really don't care if a BMW wins by a point...or an Audi wins by a point. Everyone must make their own decision on what is best for THEM.<p>Thanks....<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

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It didn't take me too long to figure-out it was Alex who posted this crap....it fairly common on the E46 board. I happened to buy a 323, but I really like the A4, too. You would not belive all the pissing and moaning over there over the results of the C&D test. I wish our board was more like this one.....more performance talk and less stuff about cupholders and armrests, for crying out loud. I guess my point is that not all 3 owners are idiots, although you sure as hell can't tell it by reading a lot of the post.

If I see one more post about A4/BMW comparison's in magazines, I think I'll puke. Go drive both the damn cars and make a decision for YOURSELF. People that make their choices based on other's opinions are beyond me. Worse yet are those that do make a decision and then read everything they can get their hands on to validate their decisions. <p>"Oh look ... C&D says the <insert brand here> is .00778 seconds quicker. I DO have the best car". Cut me a !@#$ing break.<p>Good grief folks ... make a decision and stand by it. Quit living your life thru magazines.<p>Off my soapbox now ... carry on.

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NT

<br>Hello, car tests in these mags are almost always "price leveled," because for the vast majority of their readers bottom line price is a big issue. A comparison by nature is rendered invalid if the prices aren't close. I can tell you this, I don't think you BMW folks want to see a real price-equal test between an A4 2.8 Quattro manual and a decked out 323i manual. I don't think you would like those results. <br> Why can't you BMW people just accept the fact that there are a significant number of enthusiasts who prefer an Audi? That in no way lessens the quality or strengths of your Bimmer. I just spent a month deciding between these two excellent cars, and got an A4 1.8TQM (Sport) because I thought it was a better OVERALL car, a more well rounded daily driver. Yes, your 170 HP in-line six is a sweet engine, but a half second advantage 0-60 isn't a deal maker for many of us who intend to chip our A4s anyway. (BMW's 7.1 sec. 0-60 claim is optimistic, given my experience and actual times I've seen posted in the automotive media. I've seen times ranging from 7.8 to 8.1 secs for 1.8TQM in stock form). If pure thrust was all that mattered, I'd have kept my '95 Nissan Maxima SE, which roundly kicks both cars in the ass 0-60 but had few other redeeming qualities. (R & T posted a 6.6 sec 0-60 trip in a 95 Maxima SE).<br> Apparently C&D thinks these cars are so equal only one point separates them, which makes me feel justified in taking so long to pick one over the other. <br> The fact is (and I'm an expert here), you can decontent the heck out out of 323i manual (not get the sport or premium package), and still not get within $1,500-2,000 of a loaded up A4 1.8TQM in real world buying conditions, at least where I shopped. For closer to same money, here's what you have to live with (or without) in the 323i: Plastic wheel covers on 15 inch wheels with 195/65 tires (are you kidding me, BMW?), no armrest (you gotta pay for an armrest????), no trip computer, etc. And the big kahuna: rear drive with traction control vs. Quattro.<br> When you throw in the fact that (in my humble opinion) the A4 rides nicer, has a plusher interior, handles damn near as well on the dry and much better on everything else, has fit and finish and build quality that some auto writers think is better than BMW (or Mercedes for that matter, check out Daniel Herrard at CarPoint), these things sway us to buy A4s instead of 323is. Looks is a totally subjective area: I think both cars look great.<br> Both of these are real nice cars, and no buyer of either should have to apologize for his or her choice. This test doesn't mean your 323i isn't as good as you thought it was. You bought it because YOU liked it better, and most of us bought A4s for the same reason.

NT

Is this the Alex from the bmw board who is always complaining that the hecklers over there should have the guts to use their own names, stand up and be counted, etc. etc.? By the way I do agree that that makes sense. You are killing me with your hypocrisy.<p>More importantly - I may be mistaken, but I thought that this was A4org not the car magazine review network sponsored by bmw. What is your point in posting this crap?. It is probably time that you "let go" of this apparent ongoing justification you feel you have to make for your decisions to chose the bmw over the audi. They are both great cars. Different strokes for different folks. I'm certainly not going to buy a car because a magazine told me to. What if c&d's review was fair in your opinion and Audi won? Would you race down to the local audi dealer to trade in your bmw. I certainly hope that your decision was based on what YOU felt was best.<p>Nadeem<br>1.8TQM

That is a rather gross generalization. Meant to be taken literally. The only thing I'm picking up here is that the two of you are EXTREMELY insecure in your choice of bmw. Note that I do not say that ALL bmw owners are insecure just you two pinheads who feel the need to post that "yours is bigger" on an A4 forum. Take your story walking... the BMW board is just down the street.<p>Nadeem<br>1.8TQM

That in a recent side-by-side comparison between A4.Org readers, BMW Enthusiasts, VW Enthusiasts, and Ford Enthusiats, A4.Org readers were voted "Above All Petty Magazine Comparisons". It was a long, drawn out camparison, and in a ranking of 0 to 100 Billion, we beat out the BMW enthusiasts by one point.<p>This special award gives us the unique opportunity to gloat when an Audi comes out ahead of any comparison (the recent C&D comparison), but it also let's us "be above the petty comparison" when the Audi comes in 2nd place, or even last place (like the recent comparison between the A4 and the John Deere lawn mover in Gardening Today).<p>I'm hoping we can keep this award for along time.<p>Matt

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Alex

Let't put an end to this once for all with this statement:<p>Audi and BMW make one of the finest small compact sedans around in the E46 and A4. Period. There is no better. Pick the one you like and enjoy it. <p>Alex<br> <br>

My complaint was with Car and Driver for testing cars that were not similarly equipped. The A4 is a great car and I was very close to buying an A4 2.8 QMS. If you think the A4 is the better car, it is of your opinion. If someone thinks otherwise, it is also their opinion. I am not wrong and you are not wrong. Whichever car we like, we buy and we are proud to own.<p>Us Bimmerphiles, love our BMW's. You A4 owners love your A4's. There is not wrong car here. If I offended anyone of you A4 owners by trashtalking, I apologize. My complaints were directed more at Car & Driver and not at your A4 owners. Enjoy your great A4's. I will enjoy my 323i.<p>Alex, the 99 323i owner

please, someone tell me what to think!!<br>This way, I'll be absolved from any mistake I make (so THEY told me).<p>I have to go now, I might get corrupted by the obscene internet. . . .OOOOOOO, my medication is here now.... ;0

Thanks for coming clean. :-)<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

Ohhh...poor baby...did C&D hurt your feelings. Go to bimmer board<br>and maybe they'll kiss your insecurity and make it feel better. For<br>christ's sake just enjoy your car ya yutz. I don't own either of these<br>things, but they both look grand to me. Feel better now? Now<br>where did I leave the keys to my porsche...

Take care Steve.<p>Alex

Chill out boys, life is too short. Enjoy your A4's and we (E46 owners) will give each other the thumbs up at the traffic light for buying great German cars instead of lame Japanese sedans.<p>Alex<br>99 323i owner

Get a life, BMW owners

8^)

ditto, i agree with your comments both are grand cars. on any given day one car might be percieved as better than the other, but it is the person who bought it and there personsl needs that count the most we should all enjoy are fine cars. be thankful for the blessings we have to afford cars like we can. how would our cars be in bosnia <br>some other bad area.<br> enjoy our cars.<br>wc 2.8qms chipped

ditto, i agree with your comments both are grand cars. on any given day one car might be percieved as better than the other, but it is the person who bought it and there personsl needs that count the most we should all enjoy are fine cars. be thankful for the blessings we have to afford cars like we can. how would our cars be in bosnia <br>some other bad area.<br> enjoy our cars.<br>wc 2.8qms chipped

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ALEX IS GAY. Not that there's anything wrong with that....

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