View Full Version : what is the law on booby traps? if you boobytrap your house and it kills a burglar, are you in sh1t?


CrappleZero
08-29-2003, 02:01 PM

Brett G (old)
08-29-2003, 02:03 PM
you could be sent to jail and then Bubba will push your sh1t in.

AgS4
08-29-2003, 02:05 PM
if someone gets hurt on your property, regardless of whethere you invited them there or not, you are negligent.

remember the story of the burglar falling through someone's skylight? yes, he sued. yes he won. We live in a fscked up world.

BOSTONBIM
08-29-2003, 02:05 PM

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:05 PM

Deerslayer
08-29-2003, 02:06 PM
in some states, you can't even shoot somebody who breaks into your house. Fortunately, I don't live in one of those states.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:07 PM

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:08 PM
I assume you're talking about a spring-loaded shotgun pointing at the door, for purposes of this discussion.

1) you can't use deadly force in defense of property.
2) you are in it for at least 3rd degree murder (reckless homicide) because you set in motion a machine that will kill the first person to open the door (the device can't tell the difference between a burglar and a fireman).

kung_fu_4.2
08-29-2003, 02:08 PM
Maybe he fell down the stairs first, but if you shoot him quick enough they will rule shooting as cuase of death.

AgS4
08-29-2003, 02:09 PM
you can personally shoot me, however if i get hurt on your property and you are not there, i can still sue you for negligence. in other words, no booby-trapping.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:09 PM

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:10 PM
if you're home, you might legitimately be in fear for your safety, and therefore you are entitled to use deadly force to protect yourself, but not your stuff.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:11 PM
I have to race home and kill you to avoid a lawsuit? That's not cool.

AgS4
08-29-2003, 02:11 PM

Deerslayer
08-29-2003, 02:13 PM
here's an excerpt from Texas Statutes:


<i> 9.42. Deadly Force to Protect Property

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:


(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and


(3) he reasonably believes that:


(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.</i>

AgS4
08-29-2003, 02:14 PM
if i'm hurt, you cannot justify that i'm placing your life in iminent danger (biggest rule for determining self-defense). so, no you wouldn't be able to come home and shoot me.

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:14 PM
You can shoot someone if you're home and they break in, but not a booby-trap thing if you aren't there.

I'm pretty certain you're not entitled to use deadly force to protect property in any state, under the hypothetical situation given.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:15 PM
<i>Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:
* trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
* trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping. </i><ul><li><a href="http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html">http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html</a</li></ul>

BCD
08-29-2003, 02:16 PM

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:17 PM
The statute you cite presupposes you are present to pull the trigger.

Further, it presupposes that the burglar is going to commit a class-a violent felony on the premises. This is just another way of saying "self defense" or "defense of another."

It isn't about property, only. People+property=ok to shoot.

AgS4
08-29-2003, 02:17 PM
it's very simple. you cannot rig up a motion sensing machine gun to protect your house. you can however gun someone down with a machine gun (exageration here) IF you are home. It's all about the "fearing for your safety" part.

Deerslayer
08-29-2003, 02:17 PM

hwj
08-29-2003, 02:18 PM

PhoenixGTS
08-29-2003, 02:21 PM

Deerslayer
08-29-2003, 02:24 PM

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:26 PM
<i> 9.42. Deadly Force to Protect Property

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.</I>

Texas farking rocks!<ul><li><a href="http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0000900.html#pe014.9.42">http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0000900.html#pe014.9.42</a</li></ul>

BCD
08-29-2003, 02:28 PM

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:30 PM

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:31 PM
if you are home and a felon breaks into your house at night, Texas law just says you've got a statutory self-defense get-outta-jail-free-card.

The example is whether you can prop a shotgun up on a chair, pointing at the door and rigged to go off whent he door opens. Go try that in Texas and let me know how it works out for you. ;-)

BCD
08-29-2003, 02:33 PM

JKim1.8T
08-29-2003, 02:34 PM
if you are home and a felon breaks into your house at night, Texas law just says you've got a statutory self-defense get-outta-jail-free-card.

Can we do this in California?

What about to protect my car from break in? Can I shoot the guy in the legs?

JKim1.8T
08-29-2003, 02:35 PM

GoldQuattro
08-29-2003, 02:35 PM
"(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;"

So does this mean if your stuff is insured and covered under homeowners insurance, you can't kill to protect it? I don't live in texas so it doesn't matter, just curious, but that's what the wording sounds like it could mean.

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:36 PM
If you're in the car, shoot the guy. If he's in your garage, and you are, too, you can also probably get away with it, but you'd be rolling the dice. Why risk it?

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:38 PM

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:41 PM
BUT, Texas is one of the only states that allows you to use deadly force to protect your property with such a low threshold.

Louisiana counts your car as your home, so the castle doctrine applies, but it seems that Texas is by far the most lax.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:42 PM

JKim1.8T
08-29-2003, 02:43 PM
and 3 people got their cars broken into; one of them 4 times in 3 years. I'd like to know what the rule is when defending my car in the event of a break in as I'm not exactly the biggest, best fighting guy and would rather trust a trusty .45. Funny thing is, I never thought Irvine would really have this problem. Btw, noticed your name has 949. Are you in the area?

BCD
08-29-2003, 02:47 PM

JKim1.8T
08-29-2003, 02:48 PM
you retreat, and he continues breaking in and stealing stuff, then what do you do?

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:48 PM
I wouldn't try to shoot anyone in Irvine. You'd end up on the news... with helicopters &amp; shiiiit.

You need to move to the other side of the 405. ;-)

(949) dol - phin
08-29-2003, 02:50 PM
if you reasonably felt like retreating would only make you more vulnerable, you could probably pull the trigger. If you reasonably felt like you could walk away, you'd proably go down for manslaughter.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:52 PM
You can't use your gun to scare him either, you lose your CCW (concealed carry license) if you do.

I'm not 100% sure tho.

This is for Florida, each state is different.

Then again, he is committing a forcible felony, so you might be able to stop him.

I'm taking my CCW class tomorrow, I'll be sure to ask.<ul><li><a href="http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/california">http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/california</a</li></ul>

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 02:53 PM

JKim1.8T
08-29-2003, 02:58 PM

AJG
08-29-2003, 03:19 PM
You cannot use deadly force to protect property.

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 04:12 PM
Boobytraps are still a no go.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/other/msgs/1535731.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/other/msgs/1535731.phtml</a</li></ul>

sterni
08-29-2003, 04:47 PM

Deerslayer
08-29-2003, 04:49 PM

AJG
08-29-2003, 05:13 PM
on the circumstances). No state permits the use of deadly force to protect the house (or other property) by itself.

Andrew

_T("Andreas")
08-29-2003, 05:14 PM

JoeO
08-29-2003, 06:07 PM