i read all the comments on the PES supercharger and i am wondering if there are any possible upgrades after the install of this supercharger to make it produce any more power...if so then i think i will go for it, otherwise i might as well save the money and get an 1.8t and upgrade that way since the possilbe upgrades there seem to be endless....<p>thanx...

The possibilities are basically endless regardless of what engine you have. If you put a PES on a 2.8 and tweak it just right, your gonna roast a 1.8t even if it's got a bigger turbo and intercooler etc, etc. All things ($) being equal, I'd rather start with the larger displacement 30v rather than the tiny 1.8. A 1.8t is a slug, it takes an increase in boost and changes to fuel/timing settings just to perform <i>on par</i> with a stock 2.8. <p>check this out... here's a post from Dan K, who obviously has a pretty tweaked 1.8t...<p>"I am running a k-04, upgraded plugs, upgraded exhaust, upgraded fuel pressure regulator, 180 deg fan switch, and coolant thermostat. The day was simply beautiful at 58 deg F. Garrett customed programmed my chip. The chip has a peak boost of 16 psi.<br>My best run (which was faster than some stock mustangs)<p>60 foot time: 1.985<br>Quarter Mile time: 14.570<br>MPH: 93.50"<p>all this was worth 93.5mph? What a joke. and ATCO is one of the most giving strips in the country. If you could safley get 16 psi into a 30v motor, SEE YA! My Avant at 5000 miles went 90mph with a chip (that has since been custom reprogramed), a cheap exhaust (that has since been replaced by a hiflo resonator and a remus dtm),a t-body that was only opening 3/4s of the way (that has since been fixed) and a K&N. At Carlsbad Dustway!, one of the worst strips in the country. With my current set-up the car feels like a 91-92mph 1/4car and that's with 0lbs of boost. So to go that big on a 1.8t and only reach 93 in the quarter, well, that's grim.<p>Remember, you're ability to build horse power is limited only by the depth of your bank account. If you put a PES on the car, a full exhaust, K&N, and put the car on a dyno while someone who <i>really</i> knows what they we're doing diales in the software, you'd have a 300hp A4. Now you could also build a 300hp 1.8 but I think the engine characteristics of the 300hp 2.8 would be MUCH more feasable in the real world. Not to mention the 1.8t would have to make MORE than twice the pressure to achieve the same power.<p>Want to talk EXTREME hp? Fist let me say this... If you really want to go big wait for an S4, that IS the ultimate tuners car. You could build it to 400hp easy with upgraded turbos, intercoolers, and software. But something I've been tossing around, since an S4 Avant will brobably never see these shores, is this...<p>Tear a 30v motor down, replace the pistons with something in the range of 7.5 or 8-1comp obviously hi-po jobs, port the heads, bigger injectors (maybe a secondary injector driver), custom software and either one huge custom tubo (for all out performance/racing apps) or a custom twin turbo set up (better low end for the street).<p>This would be good for 380-450 streetable hp, depending on boost levels. And at "reasonable boost levels" it would run on 92 octane pump gas all day without detonation.<p>Damon<-----------who, after exhausted contemplation, is VERY happy he has a 2.8.<br>98.5' 30V Avant QMS <br>

I'd tear it down ALL the way & beef up the bottom end of that engine. Cheaper to do it up front than blow out your main bearings, a crank, etc. & have to start from scratch.<p>If your pistons are top notch & the rest isn't, the weakest link will give first. I think a melted piston would be one of the cheaper fixes!<p>steve<p><br>

Yea, you would obviously use the best of everthing for a project like this. I was simply leaving out the obvious and speaking mostly about the elements from which you'll be getting your extra power from. Good point.<p>Damon

You gotta keep in mind that there's more to a high powered car than just the engine. You'll spend big bucks on your 400+ hp engine. Then there's your clutch, which will burn up the first time you stomp it hard. Then there's your tranny and rear-end, which may or may not be able to handle the stress, depending on how much Audi over-designed them. Then you have brakes. Your 2.8 brakes are good, but they're not near big enough to slow a car that can hit 100 mph in less than 11 seconds. Last but not least, there's suspension. All of the above mentioned things are a MUST when you get to those power levels (and they aren't cheap). I heard about a guy who owned a stock 3.2L M3, and strapped an Active Autowerke Stage II+ turbo setup (good for about 480 hp). The guy said the thing was awful, the stock suspension was way to soft to handle the power well. And that was an M3, not known for it's supple ride :)<p>Brad

I'm enjoying my car immensely, and it's a work in progress. My car serves many purposes:<p>1. Motorsports: Mainly autocross, class CSP here in Philly. I will be going out to Watkins Glenn with the Porsche club of America this spring. I've only been to the drag strip twice in my life. Certainly a learning experience. I'm sure a more experienced driver could get better times.<p>2. Daily driver, I commute 20 miles a day. I'm taking advantage of AWD during the recent snow storms.<p>3. Family Hauler, grocery getter, etc.. (i have a 3 yr old)<p>4. Like most people here, I love to tinker. the 1.8t is a great platform to tinker on.<p>As you can see, I have no complaints.<br>Damon, go out to the dragstrip and post your times.<br>Tony Ricci and Garrett do a quality job and their products speak for themselves.<p>Dan K.<br>(never been stuck in the sand, nor stupid enough to try)

Umm, geez where do I start...<p>First let me say that this string begun because someone, who sounded like a performance minded person, asked about mods on a 2.8 vs. a 1.8. I gave my oppinion on "going all the way" with one vs. the other. I in no way disagree w/ you that the 1.8t is an inexpensive way to get into a great platform and that it offers an enthusiast a very tunable and "fun" car. I do think these things. It was more like, "if someone gave me a blank check which would I rather start with" kind of mindstate.<p>Second, I have gone to the dragstrip and posted my times. I even posted pictures of me and my Avant at the dragtrip, check the forum. (black/modified 98 Avant) I, unlike what a lot of folks here at the forum think, have only been to the dragstrip once with my audi. I have an 11 second mudstain that offers plenty of fun at the strip. I also <b>have NEVER been stuck, or anywhere near, any damm sand!</b>, that was a joke. A joke because there was a bunch of bickering about Quatro and snow and I felt left out here in So Cal so I made a joke! Bad joke I guess.<p>and lastly Dan, YES there are drivers who could get better <i> times</i> than you but NOT trap speeds. When I discuss 1/4 mile trap speed all the time , Dan, it's not because I'm some drag freak like some of the penut heads (UnAbImMeR) here at the forum percieve, its because 1/4trap speed is a very real world indicator of performance. You'd be suprised by how little trap speed will vary regardless of traction, shifting, driver, etc. And using the constants of trap speed at the end of a 1/4 mile and weight of vehicle one can solve for the variable horsepower, real horsepower to the ground. So basically what I was saying is this, based on the fact that you're fairly "built" 1.8t goes 93.5mph in the quarter and my Avant 2.8 goes 91mph in the 1/4 and your 1.8 sedan is considerably lighter than my Avant with the huge bass box and all, I would say my car makes as much if not more horse power. That's all. In a nut shell you don't need to justify anything or attempt to insult me, I too commute w/ my car every day albiet not as far and I too enjoy the quatro everytime I carve around a corner. I guess where we disagree is on what it is you get when you do a considerable amount of mods to a 1.8t. I mean you've done some stuff and you'd basically get roasted by a wagon with a $500 chip, a $30 air filter and a $700 exhaust.....just kiddin' Dan, you'd keep up I'm sure.<p>Damon<------who thinks a chipped 1.8 is a <i>heck</i>of a car.<p><p>

Very true. Of the things you mentioned I would consider the clutch/trany the most important, after all lets not forget that there WILL be S4s on the road at some point in the near future with the same quatro system we have and they will be chipped and exhausted to 330hp no problem. Brakes, well, having driven my 440hp 5.0 on the street for a year with stock brakes before switching to a Bear Racing set up, I think It's feasable, but, yes, not adviseable. Suspension is paramount, I have a race H&R spring 1.9/1.5" drop and Bilsteins and I think those with the 18x8.5" multipiece A! SLRs and Potenza S02s would be sufficient. How much are those 6-speeds from the S4 anyway?<p>An all out A4 would definately be an expensive one.

Damon,<p>I guess I lost some perspective and missed out on your sense of humor.<p>I found your post in the archives: <p>"The Avant went 15.43 @ 89.03mph..... I wish I could get my Avant to go 100mph in the 1/4mile, that would make me very happy but I don't think it'll ever get there, even with a PES blower it'd probably only go like 96."<p>Then I found a second post:<br>"15.30@90.89mph"<p>Let me quote you on the current post "all this was worth 93.5mph? What a joke. and ATCO is one of the most giving strips in the country. If you could<br>safley get 16 psi into a 30v motor, SEE YA! " and "So to go that big on a 1.8t and only reach 93 in the quarter, well, that's grim." and "put the car on a dyno while someone who really knows what they we're doing diales in the software"<p>Gee, I'm not sure why I got offended.<br>Dan K.<br>

Dear Damon.<p>I must say you really do have some descent insight into this whole thing. Yes I agree w/ the lowering CR, and more boost = fast car.<p>But I could not resist. Since I am probably one of the few that has drag-raced at both Atco and Carlsbad, Both. I am from CA originally. <p>My car runs 2 MPH faster at Carlsbad. Than @ Atco ever. Atco is fair- like Sears point (both sea level). As long as the humidity/temp is low at Atco. Carsbad is always fast. Too many near stock 8 valve 4 cyl VWs run 14s out there. I find that hard to believe. Esp. when they run 15s at Sears Pt raceway in NorCal. <p>"15.30@90.89mph"<p>Those are very good times. Esp for a car of that weight and such few mods. <p>In my opinion: Carlsbad runs like Cecil county in MD. It too is a fast track.<p>Better than comparing apples and oranges the cars should be run at the same track. Same day, etc.. There is really no other way, to do it right.<p>My N/A street driven modified VW 16v 2L scirocco runs from 14.7-14.3 at 95-99 depending on only the track.<p>keep up the enthusiasm. I like to see more people drag raing these cars. People think I am nuts dragging VWs/BMWs/Audis/Porsche.. But that was what drove me in to the whole chip tuning biz.<p>good night,<br>Garrett

yea, sory dude I wasn't knokin' ya.<p>Took 3 runs that day:<p>15.43@89.03 beat by a bug<br>15.31@89.86 beat by an old beat down El Camino<br>15.30@90.89 beat my a 98' Cobra<p>Now you did go a full second faster et but that's ATCO for ya, renowned for quick times. While Carlsbad is very well known for horrid times. Again my concern is trap speed and like I said the Avant feels MUCH stronger with the new exhaust, fixed t-body and new programing. I think its good for a 91-92 mph 1/4.<p>16lbs, wow, thats a lot of boost. What do you think a 30v V6 would do in the 1320 with that kind of boost? think it'd break 100? I say 102-103.<p>Anyway, I didn't mean to sound like I was doggin' ya. If I had a 1.8t I'd be right there with ya Dan, switchin' tubos and all that good stuff.<p>Damon

Your act is getting tired Sheezo the sheezy, grow up and find someone else to follow around to amusing yourself, loser. VW station wagon, Hmmm, I wonder how you'd fair against my $50,000 Avant in your moms Chrysler Labaron with the "No Fear" sticker on the back, not to well I bet. But that's cool, I'm sure I'll the girls at your high school think its "the bomb", huh? You really don't know what time it is, do you Sheezy?<p>-D<br>98.5 Avant QMS, custom programing, Remus, K&N, Bilstein, H&R, 18x8.5" A! SLRs, Recaro SRs, A! grill, clear corners, 4 10" Cerwin Vegas, Boston Acuastic Pros, Fosgate punch 200ix/Punch 100ix, sony CDX C-910 head, sony 10 disc changer, sony 10 mini-disc changer, tint, synthetics.

The k-04 kits as advertised by many tuners claim a lot of horsepower, and initially I expected more. That's why I went to Garrett to work out the programming.<p>16 lbs of boost is a lot, but that's only at full throttle. During normal driving and acceleration, the boost only goes up to 6 or 7 lbs, and while I'm cruising on the highway, it's in a vacumm state.<p>Your right, if you start off with an extra liter of displacement and two extra cylinders, you could get a lot more out of the engine when you boost it. But let's take a look at the 1.8 for a second. The 1.8 naturally aspirated is available in Europe and puts out about 125 hp. My car makes maybe 210-225 hp(125hp/L). That's about an 80% increase. The 2.8 30v makes 193 or so HP, 80% increase= ~350 hp. (125 hp/liter)<br>Relatively speaking, the gains on the 1.8 are good, and I think it would be challenging and much more expensive to get 350 hp out of the of 2.8 30v.<br> <br>The gallery pics look good, I especially like the wheels and seats.<br>I enjoyed our discussion.<br>Dan