Maybe I am numb on my senses, but I can't really feel that Quattro is giving me any advantage in dry. I am not a race car driver, but I know how to push the limits of cars and know how to control them. <p>(btw, I don't own an A4, but I am in the process of making a decision to buy an A4 for myself. I've driven many, many A4s over the months - friends, dealers, family members, etc).<p>Don't flame me, I love A4s.. but I would like to feel the real benifts of Quattro on dry roads. All the magazines rave about Quattro but it won't do me any good if I don't feel it. Now I am thinking that these magazine reviews are way too optimistic about AWD. They give me an impression that just because the car is AWD, it will stick like a glue, which is obviously not true. <br> <br>I live in Texas where it never snows, so I won't see the Quattro advantage in snow. I've never driven a Quattro in rain either, but I am sure it will work much better than rear wheel drive cars in the rain.<p>I was just wondering if others feel the same about how I feel about Quattro in dry. I've driven many A4s over some twisties, but I must say I didn't feel that quattro was handling any better(if you exclude the benifits of the better weight balance over the FWD A4). I think A4's better handling is counter balanced by A4's nose heavy body that understeers quite a bit when pushed hard. <p>Now I think that the Quattro is more of safety features(rain and snow) rather than a performance feature. (The reason why I feel this way is that I was able to push a Ford Escort station wagon(w/ better tires), and a Mazda Miata just as fast over these twisting turns; and a BMW 323 slightly faster). <p>Considering Rally and Touring championships, AWD does help tremendously(but then again they are putting down 400+ HP), but I don't really feel it, why?<p>Can some one actually list the benefits of A4's Quattro on dry road? I don't want to hear AWD vs. RWD vs. FWD. I know the benifits of AWD, I just don't feel it in A4 Quattro on dry(except a very, very tight turns -tail won't come off- that I was throwing A4s around but then again A4's stock tires and suspension will give up too easily). <p>All the benifts, that I hear from this forum, are regarding snow and rain. On dry, people on these forum has been saying that the A4 Quattro "just turns better." According to my expereince it is not so(it is hard to tell as the car understeers a bit much like a FWD).<p>One benifit that I can see is that Quattro will help me to come out of the turns faster, but there is no way that I can reasonably test this as I can't tell whether A4 was fast out of turns because of the torque/hp or quattro.<p>Any comments?

I have a 98.5 2.8 quattro and when my car was in the shop they gave me a FWD 2.8. The one thing I hated right away is the torque steer. I would stomp on the gas off the line and the car would be all over the wheels pulling the steering wheel all around in my hands. I've never owned a FWD or RWD car. I've always had AWD (Talon) or 4X4's. I didn't like this torque steer feeling at all. My quattro just goes without and bad feedback!<p>Brad Bilut 98.5 2.8Qtip

The biggest points at which I notice the difference are in overall balance (somewhat better than fwd version) and weight transfer during emergency type maneuvers/ high speed cornering, and the ability to stand on the throttle through the turn. I was most impressed when I asked my salesman to "show me what the car can do" and during that drive he negotiated an exit ramp at very high speed, even inducing a controlled four wheel power slide. The car was amazingly well mannered even under these extreme conditions. I have yet to push my car this hard, will probably wait til I autocross it this spring, but have noticed it in other conditions. For instance I came across a Mustang Cobra (new) recently and although I fell back on the straights, in tight corners he simply could not keep pace. I also hate the feeling of torque steer from fwd cars, though Audi seems to have tamed this. But you have to consider how you will be driving the car. If you won't be driving in snow, and are not likely to be pushing the car near its limits, don't spend the extra $1,600. Whatever you decide...enjoy.<p>Regards,<br>Rodney<p>'99 A4 1.8tqms

Full throttle, first gear, left turn from a stop sign into a small gap in traffic. No wheel spin, no drama (unless your reaction times won't let you keep up with the car). A front wheel drive car without traction control will light up the inside tire. With traction control the acceleration will be reduced. With rear wheel drive you are likely to end up facing the wrong way in the gap you were trying to hit.

You are thinking about more or less the same with quattro or no quattro as I did before I bought my 98 A4 Avant 1.8T.<br>I didnt get quattro, and I bitterly regret it almost every day I get wheelspin. The A4 is an amazingly great car never the less though, but get quattro if you can afford it!<p>Ok, I agree with Rodney below that the overall balance of the car under acceleration is much better with quattro, you WILL get immediate response from the car no matter traction (more or less), its very hard to beat the acceleration of a q car. <br>As I like to drive VERY hard, not necessarily close to the limit all the time, but fast and hard, I definetly need quattro, I also live in snow/rain climate.<br>I can still go faster and outperform most other cars with my FWD, much has to do with the driver. I dont believe people who say that quattro can be a downside in winter, those people actually arent the most active drivers, as someone said in the BIG debate below, you have to anticipate what the car will do, that goes if you have quattro or not. Sure you can make mistakes, but dont blame that on quattro! Nothing is the machines fault, its the human's... we operate it! Dont forget that.<p>Basically, if you want to enjoy fast acceleration as much as you can, and you enjoy to drive fast and hard, then Id say that you will get the most out of quattro. This goes for people in dry climates too. If you are staying at 150Hp and/or 193 with ASR, and dont like to *PUNCH* it, the need isnt that great. Then it would be more like a "good thing to have" or a safety factor.<br>Are you planning to go over 250, then GET Q! But, as you said, touring cars have 300Hp+ and no quattro...<p>If you want more imput on this, mail me, Ive talked to several people with Q and FWD, I know one guy with 280HP and FWD, also my friend has a 2.8Q and 210Hp+...<p>HTH<p>GET Q! :)<p>Joe M

john, based on the FAQ ( Quattro vs. Front wheel ) and my experience driving my 96 FM and a friends 98.5 QM I think that the Front-trak outhandles the Quattro. The FAQ points out that the Quattro has the sport suspension whiich is lower and stiffer. I assume that it also has high(er) performance tires than the Fron-trak. Under these conditions the Front-trak posted almost the same numbers in the dry. One thing you should be able to feel is the extra weight. It's like having a football player straddling your rear seat. Some people say that you can't notice it,but I can tell when I've got a passenger in my car. <p>All the Mags rave about the lack of torque steer in ALL A4's. <p>I advise you to buy a Quattro if:<p>1. It snows more than three days a year.<p>2. You take off ramps at 90 mph and will be four wheel drifting ( something normally associated with the very best racing drivers).<p>3. Launching from stop lights in the rain and you couldn't live with just the slightest wheel-spin.<p><br>Bill Shaffer 96FM<br>3rd Winter- have not had a problem on any public road.<p><p>

as some other posters have suggested, try the AWD & FWD A4's back to back. try even semi-hard accel, especially in turns. notice how the bow of the FWD car pitches up and down with accel/decel (engine decel that is, not braking) and notice how balanced the Q chassis is, much less pitching. this isn't weight balance but power balance. you say you've driven in the twisties, but if you weren't on the gas heavily at the time, the Q's not going to make much of a diff. except to add said weight. get on it and you'll find if anything, some oversteer, not understeer, starts to show up. this is a subtle difference though, don't expect it to be some astronomical difference from all autos you've ever driven... if you don't care about that subtle diff, no problem, buy a FWD A4 or Beemer. if you enjoy it, buy an AWD A4.

Ok,<br>To feel quattro in the dry without killing yourself, find an open parking lot. I did this at an autox race. Go full throttle into and through a turn, first advantage of Quattro-most FWD cannot do this through a turn, when exiting the turn let OFF the gas, thus transfering the weight balance of the car, which will throw out the rear end, now punch the gas again and feel it come around and inline. This will give you the feeling of say a slip in the rain whee Quattro catched and you take off. Otherwise, you will have to take some exit ramps at insane speeds to feel it. I have felt it on rmpas when I am beginning to oversteer and the rear end will jerk itself back in line, it does this repeatedly if you keep pushing it harder. Touring cars have 298hp and those wit Quattro, watch Australian Touring Car, far outperform the other cars, thats why it was banned. YOu will hear the commetators during the race commeting that when they get to the turns they is hardly anything that can outbrake or outcorner a Quattro car. That is the other thing, Quattro allows later braking when coming into turns due to its increased cornering ability. But you will never notice this if you are a regular driver, in the dry at least, in wet/snow you will notice the difference night and day. I would say that if you drive like some of us, very enthusiastically, you should get it, if not, dont worry, the Audi FWD is very good also. BTW, i have not been able to take my car to its cornering limits since i lowered it and put better tires on it, the speeds I would have to attain on exit ramps to completely lose it would be more than insane, very close to triple digits.<br>Chris<ul><li><a href="http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9179/index.html">My A4 page</a></li></ul>

1. I don't "feel" anything most of the time. My car doesn't skid, veer, torque steer, wobble, vibrate, or anything else. It just goes.<p>2. Best way I've found to "test" quattro is on a downward-slope highway on-ramp. quattro has the ability to make the car go from understeer > oversteer (or right in between).<p>-josh

This AWD thing is all fake. FWD are safer, particularly with traction control. You know how it will bite; not so with AWD (yes, it WILL bite). However, AWD is fun at very low speed on icy ground.<p>My 5KTQ has been running one year without the driveshaft (severe vibrations). When I installed another, I lost some confidence in the car on the snow and precision in the way the car behaves at limits. No more AWD to me! <p>

Few primers before I ask more questions. I was comparing A4Q with other RWD and FWD cars, I've never test drove a A4 FWD as I am not interested in getting a FWD A4.<br>I consider myself an enthusiast and I do push any cars that I drive to the limit often whether it is a Ford Escort or Chevy Camaro z28. It is good to know the cars' limit BEFORE you have to test them under emergency situations. <p>I think the road that I tested, with varoius cars, favors small cars, Z28 did horribly when I drove it over the same road but Miata did just as well as A4(with less understeers) and BMW 323 doing slightly better(though I think it was the tires), hence my Quattro advantage questions.<p>I have a few questions for you guys,<p>1. Have you guys all upgraded the SP8000 tires to something better? (It seems to me that the tire will give out way too early before I can feel the advantage of Quattro)<p>2. How do you induce oversteer in A4? (everytime I push, over a fast medium curve, the car understeers accross the center lane, then I have to let go of the gas. Only time I was able to induce oversteer was from a dead stop, sharp left turn, 1st gear flooring, like someone mentioned earlier. But then again this manuever makes A4 almost a RWD car, as the weight will shift to back and front will lose traction sedning most of the power to back wheels- therfore tend to oversteer in a very short, sharp turns).<p>3. When it starts to understeer, do you let go off the gas or push it even harder on Quattro?(I am used to drving FWD and AWD and only way to control understeer is to let go of the gas. Someone in the forum said when your car start skid in the snow you should step on the gas not let go, is this true in dry/wet as well?)<br> <br>thanks for your comments so far.<br>

YES! Did the EXACT same today with only a slight tire chirp. The confidence is way out there.. And I have done it on wet pavement, much to the chagrin of my poor passengers who thought death was imminent. <p>Why have 207 ft*lbf of torque and are only able to use it onn dry sunny days? And I almost left out sand/gravel/road debris. <p>If Audi made only one-axle drive cars, the BMW would be closer in comparison IMHO.

The 4 link does nothing to combat torque steer. Driveshaft lengths/angles are the culprit. The difference in the angles from different drivehaft lengths puts a greater demand on the CV joints, biasing torque to the side with the smaller angle.<p>I think the A4 has identical length shafts. The 4-link system does have the advantage of a virtual center of pivot for the steering. This provides for the sweet steering and greatly reduced tire wear. Take a look at the mechanism in action next time its on a lift.

1. Lesser gripping tires will be better for you to test quattro so you dont have to take it to as high of speeds.<br>2.Read below!!!! a quick explanation-let off the gas in a turn that you are pushing into.<br>3.Quattro, push harder!!! Its the only way it knows how to work! Always keep your foot on the pedal no matter. what.<br>Chris

:)

Just get a salesman tired enough yet persuaded of your seriousness so that you are allowed to venture out on your own with the SP 8000s. Blast into some highway interchange curves at obscene speed, then see if you feel quattro makes no difference. Just a suggestion.

On the advantage of Quattro, it's obvious in Touring car racing that Quattro is banned from last year.

Quattro cars (Audi A4's) come with Independent rear suspension, while the FWD models have a rigid axle. (Like Maxima's). Independent rear suspension will give you better control especially whn cornering on a rough surface.<p>They way I see it - $1500 is a bargain just for the suspension alone. Then add resale value to it, and the extra grip (let's say 0.1% of the time).

The type of torque steer you talk of has not been evident in ANY of the fwd A4's I have driven, including my own. There had to be something wrong with that car. Even with 280hp, my fwd A4 exhibits none of the severe torque steer characteristics you speak of. When it was stock, it was nearly nonexistent.<p>Mike

in wet, traction is much less, so u can get to the limits faster, hence the diff between 2WD and AWD.<p>In the dry u either have to push much higher up to the limits of adhesion to see the diff.<p>Ways to do this:<br>a) drive like a maniac<br>b) mod your car, then drive like a maniac<p>for fun:<br>rev to 5k RPM, and dump the clutch. you will notice a diff between AWD and 2WD i guarantee.<p><br>1996 a4 2.8 qm<br>b

I've never had torque steer pulling me all over the road, but I agree about how uncomforting it is. More importantly, when considering Quattro, think of wheelspin in general. If a wheel is spinning, it is not transfering energy as efficiently as it could be. I had no trouble spinning the inside tire of my 130hp Integra, I imagine even a stock 1.8T wouldn't have too much trouble, with or without torque steer. My moderately sticky, nothing fancy Eagle GT+4 tires lasted about 15 to 18 thousand miles. I drove my 200+hp AWD Eclipse over 40 thousand miles before I needed new tires. It only takes a couple sets of nice tires to cancel the cost of the Quattro. All in all, I think that if you take out a Quattro and a non-Quattro, back to back, you should be able to tell the difference, on any surface, and if you can't, then I wouldn't buy it, because you aren't pushing the car in a way Quattro would be a benefit. Admitedly, you need to learn to drive all AWD systems. My A4 drives much differently than my Eclipse did, (and I'm glad, because I spun the Eclipse) in fact, the A4 is much easier to push hard, even with a little less power, a little more length, little more weight and a lot more room!