Yeah, yeah, yeah... needless to say I learned a valuable lesson the hard way... Quattro may be great, but if you drive like an idiot in bad weather, you lose in the end. So before you all respond to tell me the usual "4x0=0" and "how in the world did you lose traction with Quattro?" and so forth, let me just say that I'm the first to admit I made a big mistake. So here's what happened... (I'm tired of telling this story already, but one last time in print...) this was Thursday morning here in NJ after getting a dose of snow, sleet & slush overnight. I was going along fine in slow traffic, but I thought I could pass a few cars so I changed lanes and started to accelerate with the Quattro. Problem was, I hit the gas before the car was straight in the other lane. Big mistake. The back tires lost grip on the ice between lanes and slid out... I steered in the direction I wanted to go... gave it just a little gas so it wouldn't be a dead skid... but it oversteered and I was suddenly pointed towards the right & off the road... OK, I'm thinking, I just lost control here... lets just ride this out and go off the road into the grass... but then I saw two telephone poles about 3 feet apart directly ahead of me... <expletive deleted, several times at high volume> steering didn't work, ABS definately didn't work, I realized collision was imminant so I braced for impact... and then it was over. I'd estimate the speed at 40MPH +/-10, head on impact with the telephone poles. You can see from the picture that it was major damage... airbags deployed... totaled the car... but the good news is I wasn't hurt. Can you believe that? Just a sore shoulder from the seatbelt grabbing me on the jolt forward and some scraped knuckles, but that's nothing. I opened the door and walked out, rather in a daze, but OK. Still couldn't believe what just happened, and I was rather shaken for the rest of the day, but a day has gone by since then and I'm much better today. I can almost laugh about it now... I mean, look at that car! I almost feel like I cheated death. Says a LOT about the safety of the A4. But then there's the other side... says a lot about how NOT to drive a Quattro. I could get defensive here and blame the weather, but I can't do that and mean it. It was totally my fault. I made a mistake. I admit it, and I learned a lesson, and I hope some of you reading this will learn something from this also... no matter how great your Quattro is in bad weather, ALWAYS respect the weather and drive within safe limits. I hope I don't sound like a hypocrite here... please don't flame me... I KNOW I f*@#%d up! It won't happen again... trust me. I'm just trying to relate my experience with you all in the hope that it helps someone out there. Thank you.<p>Now, about that pic. This accident happened to be right in front of the Courier-News building. Within 10 minutes, a photographer was out taking pictures. That's me in the middle getting stuff out of my car (change, videotape to return that day, BreathSavers... =) So I knew the photographer was taking pix and thought it would be quite amusing if a pic showed up in the paper... then I checked out today's edition and it's right on the front page! Damn. Well, at least they didn't print my name (just license plate =) So, that's my story. I'm still pissed at myself for the way I drove yesterday, but I feel really good that I wasn't hurt and I can always buy another car. In fact, I've already called a local dealer regarding availability of a 99.5 1.8T (gotta get the Wett chip out of the totaled car tomorrow =). It'll be a few months, but I think I'm gonna go for it.<p>So feel free to respond with comments. I may not get to respond until Sunday, but I'll try. Later...<p>Steve Olsen<br>(former) Silver '97 A4 1.8TQMS Wett1.0/RamAir<br>(future?) '99.5 A4 1.8TQMS Wett1.0/?<p>p.s. for NYC/NJ A4 Group members... still planning on meeting in Feb... date to be announced soon... but I won't have an A4 by then! More info next week...<br>

Dude, that really suks! I dread the day. And I feel for you Steve. All I can say is thank god you're not hurt and you have insurance. Do it better next time!<p><br>Damon<br>98 Avant 30v QMS, Custom programming, remus, bilstien, h&R, Recaro, 18"A! SLR

Hi Steve:<br>Sorry to heard about this news. Thanks for the A4's strong structural rigidity and airbag, no one was hurt!!! I hope you are all right by now. This is the saddest thing I have ever heard.<br>Best wishes<br>Tom<br>97 A4 1.8TQM<br>99 JETTA GLS 2.0

Steve,<p>First, let me say how sorry I am for your "difficult" lesson. I, myself, learned a similar one about 7 or 8 years ago. Unlike you, *I* didn't suffer the embarrassment of seeing my smashed-up car and myself on the front page of the local newspaper. No, *my* car and I were on the local (Denver) 10:00 news broadcast!! (And get this, while the ABC-affiliate camera crew was filming my car and interviewing me, *their* TV van was sideswiped by a different driver travelling down [or should I say, off] the interstate...)<p>When I first saw the picture of your crunched car, some words came out of my mouth that I won't repeat on this family-oriented forum. Suffice it to say, the picture's a real shocker.<p>You estimated your impact speed at 40 MPH +/- 10. While I'm certainly no expert, I would guess it was probably near the low end -- maybe 30 or so. I'm not sure how many cars could even keep you *alive*, let alone uninjured, at impact speeds exceeding 40.<p>I base these somewhat cavalier statements on the crash I had many years back, and the comments of the tow truck driver who picked me up. I had been driving about 55 MPH in my '88 Honda Accord (FWD, no airbags) on I-25 when I went to pass an 18-wheeler. I started fishtailing on what we, in Colorado, refer to as "black ice". I lost control and crossed over all FOUR LANES of traffic (didn't hit or threaten anyone else - whew!) and crashed near head-on into a 3-foot high concrete traffic barrier. <p>My seatbelt quite obviously saved my life. I had a mildly sore upper-left torso and some minor neck problems that I subsequently treated with physical therapy. <p>Since I know I was originally going about 55 MPH, I had mistakenly assumed that my impact speed was 40-50. The tow truck driver said "no way", that I probably hit the wall at 18-20 MPH. I was shocked (disappointed maybe?) to hear him say that my speed was so "low", considering how badly smushed my front end was. [State Farm *almost* totalled the car, but they decided to repair it for me instead. So it wasn't near as bad as yours.]<p>So to make a long story short, I think the shock and anticipation of an impending crash may cause many people to over-estimate their actual speed at impact. I will agree, however, that your *own* condition relative to that of your dearly departed A4 says volumes about the Audi's engineered safety.<p>I imagine you'll do like I did for several years afterwards: make sure you're one of the *slower* drivers on the road when traction conditions are sub-optimal....<p>Be safe, Scott

Steve,<br>I am always impressed when someone admits driver error. Michael Andretti is famous for blaming the position of the moon and stars for his crashes, while other guys just admit that they "lost it" and swallow their pride. You definately have guts to admit your mistake. Quattro club is holding a winter driving school in Franconia Notch, NH better sign up. One more thing, are you using snow tires? And do you think that you over corrected or applied too much throttle or both? This could have been alot worse you know. I hope other Quattro drivers take note and increase there skill levels to match their cars. Glad to hear that you can laugh about it now.<br>Good Luck, Mika<p>P.S. I can't believe you made the front page!!!

I had the same problem one snowy morning. The roads hadn't been cleared at all, but we only had about 3 inches of snow. I felt that the A4 was sliding after about 5 miles of driving around 40-50 mph, so I slowed to between 30-35... at some times 25mph. I was going about 30 when the rear end started sliding out to the right,right in front of a Blazer. Well, I steered right and gave slight throttle to no avail. I hit the brakes and was able to stop before sliding into the median, and luckily the Blazer and pick-up that were behind me, were able to stop before impact. I then pulled back out and continued at about 25 mph. Not 5 miles down the road, I felt the rear start to slide out again while travelling down a small decline in the road. This time I mashed the clutch to take all pressure off the drivetrain, and the car straigtened out, released the clutch and continued to work at a 25-35mph rate. Everyone else was passing me with no problem. Tractor-trailers passing at probably 55 mph while on the interstate, FWD, RWD... all of them. I contribute some of the problem to my tires (235/40 R17 Pirelli P7000SS), but there have been several posts about the A4's rear sliding around.... A problem I never had on my SVX unless I floored it.

Given that the wt distribution is 50:50?

nt<br>

Glad you are OK! We can all learn from your experience.

I'm very sorry to hear about this, but I'm glad you didn't get injured and no other cars were involved in the accident. Many drivers (both men and women) don't admit their mistakes when they have an accident so I appreciate we can share your sad experience and a warning. <br>See you in the club gathering.<br>Take care! <br>Nozomi

Most 2wd drivers are much more aware of there limits than SUV or Quattro in bad weather<br>which is why the Quattros and SUVs are allways getting into skirmishes in the conditions<br>they are SUPPOSED to be better at than FWD/RWD.

but you've got to be thinking, anticipating and willing to use the gas. <p>Grant

The UnAbImER SUX.

And it takes a big man to accept when he/she screwed up.. Hey, but these things happen.. Just count your blessings and enjoy your new A4 that much more.. Let your silver beauty join my dearly departed 323i in Auto heaven..<p>Rich Quinlan

Your ego will do just fine once you get rolling again. Sorry it happened. Live and learn.

He admitted to that as contributing factor and was WARNING people<br>SUCH AS YOURSELF!

A side note here (already gave my sympathy to Steve), when is the Franconia Notch event? I still haven't signed up for the Quattro club but I really want to go to one of these, both winter driving and normal driving schools.<p>Thanks for the info.<br>Dave<br>

What the heck is wrong with you? This is not the time to try and preach. Of all the dumb things I have read that you have posted here, this is the most poorly timed and least likely to have any one get your message.Stating the obvious at this time in order to shake your finger at Quattro and Suv owners due to some weird defense of BMW, is really odd, not to mention wrong. You have no proof of your stupid statement and for the first time out of the many stupid things you have said in the past,I am responding cause to beat on Steve in this round about way, after he has paid the ultimate car lovers price is beyond the pale and gives your vindictive side away.

This AWD thing is all fake. FWD are safer, particularly with traction control. You know how it will bite; not so with AWD (yes, it WILL bite). However, AWD is fun at very low speed on icy ground.<p> My 5KTQ has been running one year without the driveshaft (severe vibrations). When I installed another, I lost some confidence in the car on the snow and precision in the way the car behaves at limits. No more AWD to me!

.<br>

Thats what the insurance company calls them. This shunt is clearly driver error, therefore avoidable. Steve has the balls to admit driver error and does not put the blame elsewhere. Many like to say "accidents happen" because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. I just hope many drivers improve their skills so they don't get hurt or hurt someone else because of their lack of skills. Don't forget driving a car is very dangerous and we should all be paying attention to the road and NOTHING else. I have driven thousands of miles on the Autobahn at very high speeds and I can tell you that I am completely concentrated on driving and NOTHING else, this theory can be applied to all speeds and all road conditions. So forget the CD or Cell or trip computer and just drive! Hans Stuck has an excellent video about driving on public roads and race tracks, I suggest calling DUKE Video and getting a copy. As enthusiasts we should be in search of a better driving environment in the USA.

Guys, lets face it, the Unabimmer is 100% correct on this one.

Wrong Phil, I am not the unabimmer. Its difficult not to offend people(obviously, Phil) when you critisize ones driving ablility. Steve O. admits that he was in error and hopes his experience will "help someone out there". When is the correct time to give advice? Steve felt it was the right time to give advice even after his terrible shunt. We can ALL learn from his experience and I am just trying to make it clear that driving a car is serious business. People can become over confident, its a fact not fiction.

First......................I'm sorry about his accident and loss of his car!<p>second.................he admitted that he was overconfident and it<br>seemed the whole point of his post was to warn others.<p>third.....................I made a statement about overconfidence with AWD/ SUV<br>vehicles which is generally true about there drivers.<p>fourth ............Mr. A. Hole didn't get the point of Steve Olsen's post,<br>fired off a wisecrack to me............AND IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN!<p>And...I hope Steve Olsen didn't think I was adding salt to his wound as<br>I don't wish that on anyone......NoT EvEn JimBO!!!<p>Finally................EVERYONE here could do THERE PART by following<br>up to posts in which Qauttro owners insist on driving with Dunlop Sport 8000<br>in snow/ice winter situations.....................at least BMW drivers seem to<br>appreciate the value of a PROPERLY TIRED CAR!<p>I drive a GEO Prizm, BTW

First, this ain't about Steve, he's solid for his self eval. Sounds like too much gas when turning, which generally turns an A4 unto a top on snow/ice. Sympathies. <p>Now, 8 out of 10 drivers believe that they are 'above average'. Do the math. Put those already overconfident drivers in Quattros or stupid SUV's that they think are invincible. Put them out in the snow. Now put on a helmet and hide in the basement until they are all safely stuck in snowbanks.<p>Over the last week, have seen: <br>(8) AWD/4x4 vehicles to (2) FWD/RWD. Overconfidence is what this is all about.<p>My A4 (1.8TQ) is an awesome car, but requires attention and driving finesse to keep from spinning out on a snowy/icy road. Yes I have great, new, snows (Hak NR1). Yes this car still loves to kick the ass end out when you get on the gas - about as much as a Beemer but you expect it less because 'hey i got quattro man'. Yes a Subaru Legacy (outback or not, same thing...) is much easier and generally safer to drive if you are realistic and admit that you might not always be ready to pay perfect attention to your throttle application. Yes the A4 is way more fun, and no way would I drive the Legacy instead, but I admit that it is a safer, more reliable transportation device in the nasties. <p>nuff ranting...<p>

I agree with you completely. Even Formula One Drivers admit their mistakes(like Steve did) and they learn from these errors. But there seems to be a few drivers out there who think there ability ranks up there with Michael Schumacher and would never understand our view of Steves shunt. Its funny because that A Hole guy(I forget his name) thinks I'm YOU. Your right, he is an accident waiting to happen(there are millions of drivers like this). Pretty scary!!!<p>Mika<p>P.S. I don't care what anyone says, your not a bad guy.

Steve,<p>I am glad you are OK.<br>Sometimes life's lessons can be painful. Chalk it up as a learning experience. Just be thankful that nobody got hurt.<p>Patrick

nt<br>

Talk is cheap, back up what you say with proof! I can come on here and say all people who add sports suspensions and extra HP to their cars, get over-confident and drive to fast, and are a danger on the road with out snow. Does this sound correcrt,yes, do I have proof, NO. So many people come on here and make statements that they can not deffend with facts,but with poorly motivated guesses.

Why would I want to bag on Steve Olsen when I don't even know him?<p>It is common knowledge that AWD drivers are allways getting into it<br>in bad weather. Everyone dreads going out on the road and being<br>at the mercy of these MANIACS!<p>explain all the posts insisting that Quattro and Dunlop sport 8000<br>are fine for the snow?<br>

I don't know Steve Olsen...why would I want to attack him?<p>HE ADMITTED IT AND WAS WARNING OTHERS!!!<br>though in your case, it fell on DEAF EARS!<br>

Paranoid is a mental disorder characterized by delusions of grandeur or of persecution. My post have been focused on two points, 1) your motives of posting in the manor that you did at Steve's( not my expense) and, 2) your un-supported "feeling" about Quattro and SUV drivers and how they drive poorly in snow and ice and are a danger to the rest of the drivers. Steve admition did not require any response much less your "I told you so" adminition. I think it is safe to say that if Steve past those cars at 45 in dry weather this wougld not have happened, then is the main factor here snow and bad judgement or Quattro owners and SUV owners? Can a person in a Honda have done the same thing? I will assume that since you have not posted any factual info to back up your statement that you have none and are expressing your OPINION, and are very defensive when asked about your motives, read above definition of "paranoid" and see if in fact that fits you.

One word, "Wow"! Thank God and our German engineers you are alright! I, like everyone else, am going to tell you that it takes a lot to admit you were driving with a bit too much confidence, considering the weather conditions, and that really means a lot that you've admitted that. Thanks for posting this. We can definitely all learn from each others mistakes! I get a little too confident at times, myself. I'll be sure to think of you and the "difficult" lesson you learned.<p>Best of luck w/the 99.5! I'm going to be jealous of that baby, especially considering I have a 99', but not a 99.5!<p>JT 99' 1.8Tqms

Do I have to send him flowers to prove it to you???!!! what do you want from me???!!<p>Why are you blaming the snow....He didn't!

it certainly seems as though there are more than a few ' accidents waiting to happen'<br>on this BB, hopefully they wont involve innocent people not willing to<br>play the game.<p>are you in NH?

Just drive around in a snow storm and look at what types of vehicles are stuck. They will mainly be 4 wheel drive cars and SUV/trucks, many people here relate the same observations. One guy even said that tow truck drivers in Montana call snowstorms Audi Quattro duty. As far as having statistics that prove this, I don't. I don't believe many statistic about auto accidents anyway because they are often misleading, besides the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway safety)<br>is questionable because they have a conflict of interest and many statistics come from them. Remember when Insurance companies offered discounts on ABS equipped vehicles, then all of a sudden did away with the discount because they said that there are "no statistics to prove that ABS is safer than non ABS". Well of course there aren't because: 1) an unskilled driver is still an unskilled driver(especially with bald or improper tires) and will still crash regardless of what driver aid the car has(remember all the Police crashes w/ABS equipped cars) 2) if you just avoided an accident because your ABS equipped car allowed you to steer around an obstacle, are you going to call the statistic takers and tell them to put a check in the ABS is good column? Unskilled and uneducated drivers don't understand that these drivers aids: ABS,EDL,ASR,ESP,4 wheel drive, etc. can't overcome the loss of mechanical grip to the tires, this is the main reason why overconfidence and lack of skills contribute to many avoidable shunts. America offers excellent education in many areas, sadly there is almost zero driver education and training.I feel that we can change this if enough people understand the problem and do something to change it. <br>Thanks Mika