I'm not really market for a new car but I might be within the year. I was tossing around the idea of a Mazdaspeed 3, Civic Si, GTI or a WRX.

The only real concern that I'd have is whether or not I'd like FWD on the track since I've never driven anything other than my A4 on a track. Is it as un-fun as everyone makes it out to be?

At the moment I think I'm leaning towards the WRX but they're the most costly of the bunch and the new ones are pretty ugly IMO. I guess the other option would be to buy one of those used and grab an older Miata but I don't know if I would want to deal with two cars again

Any comments?

...that I could drive to/from the track with. It has since become my daily b/c it's so much fun to drive, esp w/ the top down! ... and it sips gas (25 mpg lead footed street, 29 mpg hwy, 16 mpg full throttle on the track). I'll take my B6A4 out when I want a luxury ride for a long trip or a date... but now I'll be selling her (Audi) due to my relocating to a much more expensive area of the country where I can't afford parking 3 vehicles.

The Honda has better aftermarket support, but as a daily driver, the Mazda 3 is more unique.

In a lower powered car, the "feel" of FWD should not be much different from RWD. It's possible to make a FWD car "neutral" on track despite the weight imbalance.

That said, I stopped tracking my daily driver and picked up a RWD car.

I was really impressed by the previous generation Nissan Sentra SER specV, which has a factory LSD, and I'm pretty sure that was what made the difference.

Rolling on throttle in understeer conditions would rotate the car... very useful.

I have zero experience with these cars, but they look like a trackable car that is still reasonably practical as a daily driver.

Anybody got any experience???

I have lots of fun....trailing throttle oversteer is very fun in a FWD car! :-)

.. gas milage for a car of that size with a relatively weak engine.

I've driven a few at speed on the track, and was blown away with their neutral handling and friendliness on the track. Handles a lot like my E30 M3.

So unless you want to do power slides, it's not critical where the power comes from.

The only tangible difference might be powering out of a turn where a FWD might plow b/c the tires up front are being asked to turn and apply power and there is rearward weight transfer. Easier to exceed the friction circle.

stricter emission regs, moving a much heavier car.

the gas or hard on the brake

I'm surprised it's even that close, though, since, as you say, the RX-8 is heavier and the engine produces more power.

I loved driving that 13B engine though. Really fun above 3200 RPMs. Good torque, nice power curve. Reminds me in some ways of my 3.2 engine now, as far as the way it runs, but, of course, the 3.2 V6 sounds better.

So figure them at 22 in mixed driving. If he drives 12000 miles a year, that's 545 gallons. In the RX-8 at 16mpg thats 625 gallons. 80 gallons times $4 is $320 a year. YMMV.

More $$$, but not, to me, deal-breaking. I've heard of some majorly good deals on RX-8s that might make up the difference.

The WRX has AWD and comes in a wagon form, the Mazda 3 is wagon, so they have more space and are significantly more practical. I'd base my decision more on that.

cheap, nicely balanced, fun without crazy suspension mods, and very few tradeoffs for daily use.

and less stressed. no need for big brake kits, bigger turbos or other mods; just make sure the suspension is up to date, add track pads and drive it.

(I like the B5 S4 a lot, by the way -- I've driven several, -- I just think it's too complicated, heavy and unbalanced to be a good track car)

is heavy and lets you know it.

yes, MPG is not great, I get ~21 on the hiway and barely 18 in mixed driving. but I rationalize this in many ways:

-it runs 100% fine on 89 fuel for daily driving
-it's really an affordable car considering the fun you get for the money. bought mine $25K new. might even be less now w/ all the factory incentives.
-insurance is strangely cheap; less than my '98 B5. i think it's classified as a '1.3L 4-door'...which it is.

and to echo the poster below, yes it's extremely evocative of driving a e30 M3, esp. the powerband. altho I must say, stock for stock, the RX8's suspension is much more modern and feels it.

ppl are aware of pro/con of Audi & other brands, and aren't hesitant to suggest other brands, based on the needs of each individual.

I'll have to revisit my mpg phobia on the RX-8!

... cars out there that are better than Audi/VW products (or better value).

And more specifically, he was asking about very specific models that are substantially less expensive than an R32 or A3 3.2.

but you want to nix discussion of the R32 and A3 on an Audi forum? WTF?

For me, it's b/c I thought about the RX8 as a track car. It's a pretty good value. 4 seats, 50/50 balance, truly track-bred.

But I agree. It's off the guy's topic. Note how the original guy did not jump in on the RX-8 blather.

Either discussion was OT. I just had more interest in one.

WRX is AWD

R32 and A3 are AWD

all are similar in price in base configuration

WRX is faster, granted

WRX is more track-ready

R32 is probably cheaper than WRX today given VW incentives to move the R32

Seems strange not to suggest R32 and A3 to the original question, given those parameters and the fact that we're on an Audi forum. I don't think many Audi people even know what an A3 is, to be honest.

Don't get me wrong, I like the RX-7 and RX-8 cars. I had an RX-7 for 10 years, although I never tracked it. Was recently thinking that it would be fun to have an RX-8 now. But my next weekend and HPDE car is either going to be an old 914/6 or a used Cayman or something like that, depending on whether I want a collectible car that I need to baby, or a car that I can run.

<ul><li><a href="http://www.pbase.com/adelmundo/image/96374183">Our TT doing a 3 wheelie :D</a></li></ul>

I did it last fall. 944 is "Porsche enough" to get me into Porsche events, but it will never attain any historic value that will make me regret thrashing in on track. Cheap to buy, but not totally cheap to run. And now that I have a track b(tch, my requirements for a daily driver have changed. I don't want a hard-riding, fast daily driver.

You can buy and prep a 944 for the track for $7-8,000. To do the same with a Cayman will run you about 5X that. I see myself going Cayman in about 3 or 4 years.

I like the idea of an R32 but they're a decent amount of money. I just checked for used ones in my area and the majority of them are in the upper $20s close to $30k

I think I'll just have to go out and drive everything, they all sound good on paper

and only $2K more MSRP than a (non-STI) WRX. So it costs more, but not $10K more.

If money is not a big issue, consider the Stasis A3.

At Sebring my S4 top speed was about 145 or so and M3 top speed was in the high 120s. Yet my best lap in the S4 was 2:55 and M3 was high 2:30s. Weight and that great bmw balance and handling make all the difference.

Another factor was that I was a more experience when I was driving the M3. My S4 outing was just my second time on track.

The WRX is a great option with wonderful aftermarket support. A well-known local racer (now in a Viper GTS) identified the WRX as the "ideal" recreational lapping car during a beer soaked conversation a couple of years ago.

My FWD Ford Focus SVT (now with added FI HP) is a ton of fun. It does push a bit, but with a stiffer suspension and bigger rear bar, it is reasonably neutral. LSD helps big time.

The kids in the BTCC seem to have fun with their cars. That series is dominated by FWD cars at present, although Audi and BMW have had success there in the past.

My car is now a dedicated track car, with a 6-point cage and all, but the base car was fun as well. These are cars you can get pretty cheap now and with some suspension/brake work, they are fun.

If I were to do this again, knowing that I would eventually wind up with a track-only car, I would probably have tilted to either an E36 M3 or a S2000 (with a 4-point bar minimum). Some clubs block convertibles, but around here there are plenty of clubs that permit them still.