Obviously I am happy to see the brit not fighting with the red's. As we say he was a "straw fire".

Thank you Ferrari, still make my RED heart skip a beat when I hear the national anthem....

On both setup and also development of the cars. FA did not become a 2x WC while sleepwalking. Don't get me wrong, I think LH is talented but we will now see how complete a package LH really is.

Give the guy a break. He just entered f1. Isn't he still a teenager?!

My take is that losing Alonso definitely hurt with setup but I think the penalties from last year that directly effect their development may have hurt just as much.

Did you hear Hamilton after the race wondering how Ferrari was able to limit wheel spin and also make the rear tires last longer? Obviously there is work that needs to be done at Mclaren.

Personally, I don't dislike Hamilton but I sure enjoy seeing Ferrari beat him.

it certainly takes more than just 2 seasons to decide if one has what it takes to be a better than average F1 driver. What I was trying to say is that considering how LH came on to the F1 scene last year, there were many that were ready to crown him the greatest ever, as he had his own biography out already last year by mid-season. IMO, fans were not giving FA enough credit with his year at McLaren. With FA's move back to Renault, we will now have a better idea of how LH really measures up against other drivers on the grid right now at this time.

However, with that said, don't forget that LH has already gotten a lot of breaks in his very young F1 career. In the recent years, other than J. Villenuve in 1996, no other rookie driver entering F1 had the opportunity to drive for a top tier team with a competitive car from the start.

Totally agree with you. I was always skeptical about LH. He is a good driver in a very good (not enough) car.

We know its not the ECU or some hidden TC as they all uses a common ECU now, which incidentally is supplied by none other than his very own McLaren International.

Mechanical grip is usually the harder of the two and requires more driver input to develop. Because unlike aerodynamics, it is very difficult to similate.

MS got a drive w/ Benneton by his 2nd race -- not too shabby for a rookie.
And Montoya was with Williams (when they were very good). He gave MS a scare or two.
Jenson Button looked pretty good w/ Williams as he was coming up.

LH has made good use of his opportunites. He defitinely has a good chance to be a great.

[ok Kimi hat on]

MS started his F1 career with a Jordan at Spa as a replacement driver in 1991. He qualified his "3rd-tier at best" Jordan-Ford 7th, on one of the most difficult tracks on the F1 Calender. As you may recall, Bennetton was a mid-pack team at best in 1992 & 1993. He had to drive an inferior car throughout his years at Bennetton (92-95) and yet he won 2 titles with what he was given. Like many other great drivers before him, MS EARNED his rides, not given.

As for Montoya, his entery to F1 was similar to J. Villenvue, both were accomplished drivers of other open-wheel series already by the time they entered F1, neither were pure rookies like LH. In JB's case, he entered F1 with Williams in 2000, with an extremly young BMW F1 engine program, whom with the departure of Renault, hadn't been competitive since 1997.

Kimi's career was more similar to Michael's. He too went through year of learning with a lesser team, in a Sauber-Ferrari, before being snatched up by Ron Dennis/McLaren.

Again, NO ONE in F1 history has been as well groomed as LH as a driver. Ron Dennis has been preparing LH since LH was in his early teens. And certainly NO ONE before LH was ever given a top tier car to race as a rookie.

While I still think his best years may lie ahead of him, he was definitely given an unheard of opportunity.

The way they hyped him last year (and still this year) it's almost like he can walk on water.

Did you hear Hobbs (at least I think it was him) when he was chasing Massa near the end acting like it was inevitable that he would be on Massa's tail in no time?
I like Hobbs but he was definitely commenting on the hype of LH and not the reality of the situation.

They just need to ease up on all the talk and thinking that this guy is the second coming and just realize he is a good, fast driver that basically came out of nowhere because of the ride he was handed.

(1) LH: I'm sorry didn't he win the GP2 championship? I guess he didn't earn that? And I have news for you.
(2) Kimi: Do you know why he joined Sauber instead of a top-tier team? B/c he had hardly any racing experince! I think you could count on your fingers how many times he raced a car. If I remember correctly him getting his super license was an ordeal b/c of his lack of experience. [I suppose I could google this to make sure the accuracy of my statements, but I"m pretty sure I'm correct.] He should FRICKIN thank his lucky stars he didn't land w/ Arrows or Prost when he started out b/c then he's be driving a frickin tractor for a living! IF THAT'S NOT LUCK -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS! Don't get me wrong he deserved the WDC, but he was no more deserving in getting an F1 ride than LH.
(2) MS: When heck is 3rd considered mid-pack? Benneton standing in the respective yrs you refer to.
(3) JP: Williams were competitive in the early yrs when Montoya was on board. Granted Ferrari was better. But Williams was a clear second those early Montoya yrs. I mean even RALF was winning races -- of all drivers. [If you want to pick bones, how about him clearing tens of millions of dollars w/ limited skill but unlimited attitude problems.

Look LH was lucky, but obviously he was well prepared for the situation. I mean he was podium in his first race. Do you honestly think Piquet could pull that off?

Let's put it this way: LH has no relations in racing. And he doesn't come from money.

He doesn't have a dad named John Force, Piquet, Andretti, or Rosberg. Or a brother named Michael. He had nothing. I'm mean his pop had to work 2 jobs for him to race. Its not like Ron Dennis was walking down the street -- like some kind of talent agent -- and plucked him out of the street as if he were a model!?

Yes he was super lucky to have a McLaren right at the right time. But nothing was given to him. I think ppl are confusing the two.

...kinda like a model.

You are right though in that he didn't have the family or finanacial background of many of today's racers.

That for sure is the one thing that really bothers me in that the drivers are (most times) not the best possible but instead are the best financed or "connected". - But that's another topic.

I definitely think Hamilton has "earned" an F1 ride and like I said before, he's a very good driver. My whole point is that he is over-hyped.

when Rubens started F1, and he replied about how he was 7, and riding his three wheeler and his Mickey Mouse bedroom decor.

1) Martin Brundle also gave the late great Ayrton Senna a load to handle in their F3000 days before both of them headed over to F1, were they close ? How close were their F1 career paths ? And are you seriously comparing GP2 series to CART before the division ? GP2 is more similar to Indy-light or Formula Atlantic, it is step away from the old CART series.

2) Kimi pretty went straight from Kart racing into F1, with two British Formula Renault titles in between (23 races total). Kimi also started racing at a much later age and was DISCOVERED, not groomed, as a talent by Peter Sauber, who also happens to be a great judge of racing talents, which was necessary for a small privateer team to survive. Incidentally, Kimi, Massa and Kubica were all his proteges. Arrows and Prost were long gone by the time Kimi started, and just a little FYI, being picked up by Sauber is not really anything that glorious at that time. They started in 1993 with Ilmor which was later purchased by Mercedes. They were a backmarker team for the longest time until Kimi's arrival in 2001, which gave Sauber the best season ever until BMW finally took over 2 years ago. Again, Kimi did what he can with a vastly inferior car which by the end of the season, made him the most desired driver in F1, with the exception of M. Schumacher. Case in point, Kimi and the others all started with a lesser FORMULA ONE team first and then proved their ability there first.

3) Benetton-Ford finished in 4th place in 1991, that was before M. Schumacher's arrival. While 4th place in WCC may not be that bad today, it was nothing in 1991. In 1991, the two top teams that year had 3x as much points as Benetton did (Ferrari was 3rd, equally depression results). The 3rd place finish of 1992 in WCC was with M. Schumacher. And again, in a much more inferior car when compared to the eventual winner of that season, the mighty Williams-Renault with its active-suspension.

4) Let's see. JPM started with Williams in 2001. Ferrari won with 179 pts and McLaren 2nd with 102 pts. Williams-BMW was 3rd with 80 pts. In 2002, Ferrari had 221, Williams had 92. It wasn't until 2003, the other teams started to have a fighting chance, at least on paper that is. You may recall that 2003 was the year that due to Ferrari and Michael Schumacher's dominating performance, the scoring system was changed to make the championship fight closer. But in reality, Ferraris won 8 races that year and the runner up, Williams-BMW won 4 with McLaren in 3rd place with 2 race wins. As you can see, it wasn't even close.

For whatever reason, you seem to think I am attacking LH. LH appear to be a talent driver with great potential, but at this point, IMO, he is still unproven. All I am saying is that with Alonso gone, we will now see if Hamilton is as great as what many people seems to think of him in 2007, without the benefit of a WC as his team mate to help in setting up and developing a race car.

He was groomed and righfully so as he is certainly a talent and Ron Dennis/McLaren deserves all the credit for that. However, my point is that NO OTHER driver entering F1 had been as well prepared and groomed by a F1 team until Hamilton. He didn't have to prove himself with a lesser team with a lesser car as the others did. Again, not saying that LH can't do well with an inferior car, just saying that he didn't have to and that we should hold off the crown and the sceptor until he proves to the world that he is the real deal.

(1) No I'm not comparing GP2 to the old CART. But there is no old CART anymore -- and the existing serie(s) is total rubbish. Anyway even when it was good, its not like the entire CART field was worthy. [side note: There are examples of awful F1 drivers too (Alex Young (sp?) really comes to mind), but at least the talent is more consistent.] What I'm saying there's not too many feeder series, and I don't think CHAMP (or whatever they call it) is one of them.
=> What I'm getting out, where else does LH have to go to prove himself, CHAMP?! And be like Bourdais and drive around the competition for 4 yrs!? Tell me where else should he go to be deserving?

(2) 23 races are you serious... Kimi was a greenhorn and a crap shoot. Can you possibly believe that Peter Sauber knew he'd be such a phenom? I'm sure he's made calls that went the other way too. Either way groomed or discovered... what difference does it make? Don't you think if Eddie Jordan really knew how good a driver MS would become b/f Spa, he'd of signed a contract for the remainder of the season? (By the way, both Arrows and Prost were around at the time.)

(3) Obviously Benneton wasn't a front runner... but they had resources -- probably like Red Bull. $4 energy drinks and $100 sweater pay for a lot. $ paid off a lot for Benneton, but not for Red Bull (or Toyota for that matter). Something attracting MS away from Jordan.

(4) I'm not reading what I wrote, but I think I was implying that Williams was a really good team -- not Ferrari good -- but damn good. (I remember seeing a lot of Williams caps in the stands back then.) And honestly do you think MS would have let the team sign up Montoya at the time? I think he would have seen him as a threat -- kind of like FA did w/ LH.

Listen I'm just having fun w/ this debate. I don't care for LH either way -- I don't find himm too charismatic. Frankly who knows if he's the 2nd coming of AS and MS (some ppl do), but it also too early in his career to poopoo his 2007 accomplishments (and it seems other ppl slam the door on him). Maybe he knows how to set up a car, maybe he doesn't -- but I would think that as a skill that gets better w/ experience. However, I say he has a good chance of being a great. He has good talent, seems to have good work ethic, and not too many vices.

JV proved himself in CART and was gifted a Williams. In the grand scheme of his career, was he deserving of that ride.

Hasn't Bourdais won like 4 CHAMP car tiles in a row? And he's driving for Torro Roso?!

Was JV more "deserving" than Bourdais?

Bourdais has been the much-hyped "French hope" for many years without showing a lot. CART was in pretty poor shape while he was winning those 4 titles. And his penchant for punting when he couldn't pass won't go far in F1.

1) Had LH started his F1 career with a lesser team and a lesser car, that would have been a better measuring stick to see how talented he is as a driver. It would be a great way to prove his abilities as oppose to starting his career in a highly competitive McLaren. You were the one that mention about giving LH a break as he is only in his second season. I am simply pointing out to you that he has more than his share of fortunate breaks already. Again, LH is the first and so far the only rookie that started his F1 career with a top tier team, regardless how or why.

2) Just like NBA or NFL draft, there is never really a sure thing. Which is why every driver started with a lesser team and in a lesser car until they prove that they indeed belongs in F1, at least that was the case until Hamilton's arrival with McLaren. And yes, Kimi did indeed burst into F1 as a "rumored" phenom (See link: http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/hall_of_fame/12/).
As for M. Schumacher, in a way, he was discovered by accident. You need to understand that just because a driver is great in an open-wheel series does not tranlate to automatic success in sportscar series and vice versa. Throughout racing history, there are plenty of drivers that are amazingly brave in an enclosed car but for one reason or another, just can't seen to get a handle on an open wheeler. M. Schumacher was a member of the Mercedes Sportscar's jr. team. And surely you must remember that he only came into F1 when Bertrand Gachot got into legal trouble (He used mace on someone in a country that it was unlawful for civilians to carry and use a mace), someone recommended MS to Eddie Jordan as a substitution. Eddie asked Schumacher point blank to see if he has any experience with the Spa circuit, Schumacher lied to him and said yes. Almost immediately following Eddie Jordan's approval, he borrowed a bike and rode around the famous Spa track to familiarize himself with the track.
In fact, Jordan did sign Schumacher for the remainder of the season in 1991, however, with Benetton's help, he got out of it and got himself into a more competitive team and car (Benetton). This is all well docuemented in F1 literture and was much talked about even today when any driver has a contract dispute. Most recently with JB's unwillingness to go back to Williams and also ironically, with R. Schumacher's departure from Jordan.

3) Benetton was a mid-pack team. Schumacher went from a backmarker to a mid-pack team because at the time, he was still somewhat unproven. Briatore saw what MS did with Jordan and was willing to take the chance. He also knew that had he been right about MS, all of the big three will want to sign him by the end of the season and that was his only opportunity to land Schumacher. In the end, Benetton paid a good amount of money to Jordan to get Eddie to release MS.

4) Again, you are forgetting that the only reason Ferrari did not run away from the rest of the field in 2003, had more to do with change of the scoring system and also the constantly changing qualifying sessions. It was all an attempt to slow Schumacher and Ferrari down so the season can still be "exciting" to watch. Do you honestly think Montoya was a threat to Schumacher with Schumacher being in his prime ? Schumacher would have destroyed Montoya with ease just like he did with many others.

It would have been much easier to be successful in F1 had it to be determined by the number of team caps in the stand. Force India will just have to pay spectators money to wear their caps to win a F1 title.

Anyway, it looks like we are bascially talking about the same thing, but we are just approaching it from two different angles. IMO, to judge LH fairly means that we must give him time as he is still relatively unproven. I didn't think he is going to be the greatest ever after the 2007 season and I don't think that he is a complete bust after only 4 races into the 2008 season. However, I think it is safe to say that 2008 will be a better example for us to see how good Hamilton really is.

JV was also quick right out of the box when he entered CART. And IIRC, Team Forcyte-Green was not exactly a powerhouse in CART at the time when he won his CART title and the 500.

Facts are facts, LH had the best opportunities as a rookie entering F1, which played a part in his stellar rookie season in 2007. Only history will tell us how good he really is, we shall wait and see.

By the same logic that we shouldn't judge LH by his 2007 season and the young 2008 season.

He was successful as a Williams driver. His move to BAR was a bad career move. He wanted to undertake a similar task as M. Schumacher did with Ferrari. He was simply in way over his head. His career may be very different had he chosen a different path, much like Jean Alesi's. All these are speculations tho, we will never know.

F1 drivers' psychy can be rather fragile, which is why it is necessary and important for a young driver to move quickly through the ranks as soon as possible.

Since you have been following F1 for awhile now, you should know that as well as the next fan.

If you want to put a question mark next to JV, you can do the same with Mansell, Keke or Watson's as well.