I have raced in Solo2 events and have done well. I have always wanted to go to a driving school to see if I had what it takes to be one of the faster drivers out there.

I like nascar but love GT and Touring, nascar on road courses is cool, transam series is cool, Not looking for an oval course looking for a road course.

I know bondurant is suppose to be pretty good but I'm not crazy about driving a Mustang for 3-5 days. I'm also anti open wheel, so that's out.

What are some options? I have checked out http://www.racingschools.com, but wanted some real world feedback on the schools. I am going it's just the matter of where and when.

Thanks

Tory
Looking to go towards the end of 2001..
2001 S4
Ran my 95 Eclipse in SFR SCCA SOLO2 in 97, plyed with my 911 in 98/99 but was too slow (the car 2.7 in ASP) hahahah

do you realize that a good driver in a Neon (stock) can whip you in your S4? Do you realize that if you learn how to handle a rear-wheel drive car you can drive a front/rear/all-wheel drive car?

if you are looking just to go fast then go spend some money and go to an expensive school. Or go to trackmasters, or something like that.

Jon

It was a nice car, for being a FWDer, but you can't beat it with a stick as it came with go fast parts from the factory, big brakes and other goodies. Not to mention it was light.

I would agree that there are better (read smoother) drivers then me, but in some instances the best driver in a 125 hp neon is not going to beat a decent driver in a 250hp S4, GSX whatever, if they would then there would not be classes for each car to compete in, it would be just one big class!! See C5's running against old 1.5Litre VW's?

Okay, let us go further into this subject, smaller AUTOX soloII type track, there is a possibility of the above occuring. As where the S4 might have to lift, the Neon might not have to (less speed obtained before the turn, less speed needing to be scrubbed to take a corner). On a Road course where there are straights, forget it! I don't see the best driver in the world with a low HP motor, beating the 100th ranked driver in the world with twice the power in their vehicle.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, please. I am open to discussion on this subject. Also I'm not opposed to driving a rear wheel vehicle to learn! That is fine, C5 vette, panoz, BMW. And of course again I have to state, for a road course I want something that has the extra power, for a soloII smaller course I would not mind running a smaller celica, Miata, Z3 etc.

Did not mean to step on anyones toes as I know the Neons were an up and coming solo2 vehicle in it's class. I'm just not partial to it and they don't interest me!

Also if I want to spend money?? MY initial post was related to going to a school, thus paying money. Not sure where that comment came from.

Thanks,

Tory

Yes I was around when people were looking at the Neon ACR with sparkles in their eyes, the next "go fast car" in solo2, sorry just never did anything for me and yes I saw some darn good drivers put those cars thru the paces!!

It sounds like you would like fast cars so you can "beat" someone. I may be over-simplifying, but I think you can understand where I got this conclusion from.

In my opinion, I think it is much cooler to learn any car, slow or fast, and how to drive it smoothly. That's the key. With smoothness, which can be applied to any vehicle, comes speed. It's very hard to be smooth with a high horsepower vehicle, when your'e starting off. You just feel like punching the gas will be the answer to all the mistakes that can occur.

I'm by no means a good driver. I've been to 6 events and I get better and better every time. I can now run a track for 4-5 laps and then start working on manipulating the car to get different results with the car. Initially, it took all day to just get the hang of the track.

In my last outing to an DE school (at Sears Point), I was hanging in there with a brand new 2001 M5 through the turns with my anemic FWD VW Jetta. I couldn't believe it! 400 hp and it couldn't out corner me, or should I say HE couldn't out-drive me in the corners. And that's all chalked up to experience.

Of course, as soon as we hit the straights, he stepped on the gas, and shall we say, the VW had the track to itself all over again.

My point is that I had a great challenge with the VW, something that the S4 I had taken to the track wasn't offering, and I dare say I learned a lot more with the VW in the rain than I could have if I had the S4.

If your'e good, then HP's don't matter up until all things being equal, it does. It's a lot easier to control a low HP car than a 400hp monster that can bite really hard.

clear. As in a $2500 Porsche Driving Experience, etc, school, not a $200 driver safety school.

Jon

I believe that qoute is from Benjamin Franklin.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? (This is intended not as a flame but as a reasoned response.)

A few years ago, I thought I was a pretty good driver. I had a solid grasp of car control after driving everything from a 1970.5 Camaro Z/28 LT-1 to a Subaru wagon (at/beyond the limit too many times to count) to Mustangs, a Porsche and even a Ford LT9000 10 wheel flatbed with a 250 Cummins and 13 speed RoadRanger that I managed to (accidentally at first) power slide through an exit ramp while empty in the rain (what an experience - swinging the back around in a truck that wieghed over 25,000 pounds empty). I grew up with motorcycles, go-carts and quads. I have also had the opportunity to race Karts which I was convinced (combined with everything else) put me near the top of the heap when it came to driving cars at high speed.

Anyway, several years ago a neighbor of mine who had a well prepped Mustang coerced me into attending a "driving school"/track day at Pocono International with a group called PDA (Performance Drivers Association). I was the proud owner of a chipped/exhaust A4 1.8 TQMS and threw my application in the mail. Wow was I in for a lesson.

My first session around the double infield course was with a guy named Bobby. Bobby owns a 930 which has to be putting out over 500hp. Bobby used to race with the SCCA in every class known to man. Bobby knows how to drive. I think I am going to scare the **** out of Bobby in my little A4 and show him what an Audi can do. After two laps he has me pull in the pits and asks, somehow unshaken after my incredible show of driving skill, if he can take the wheel. Without getting into the ugly and painful details, Bobby showed me what I was leaving on the table. He was running at least 10 seconds faster per lap than me in a car he had never driven before.

Well, after several years of 20+ schools/track days per year, I can now say, without doubt, that I absolutely, unoquivocably haul ass. I am the guy on the track in the little A4 who drives around 911s, Vipers, M3s, S4s, Lotuses and Ferraris (O.K. that was just once). Please don't try to tell me that an S4 (or Viper/911/Mustang/Camaro/tube frame wonder race car with 500hp) is going to be faster than me because it has more HP and the driver is "better".

Here is how it usually goes - Some guy (or gal) in a Corvette/whatever looks up in their rear view and sees me in this Silver A4 on their ass. They think to themselves "I must have just passed that A4 since it's behind me". Another couple of turns and I am still there tickling their bumper. They pull ahead of me on the straight because they have 100+hp on me and they just killed every last bit of momentum I have. A couple of turns later and they see me closing on them at over 50 mph going into a turn. I have timed it so that at the track out of the turn I am still going 20-30mph faster than they are. Since I am so skilled (a little chuckle) I have chosen a later apex and therefore my track out is farther down the track which puts me on the inside of said driver when they are at their track out and past them before they realize they were supposed to point me by. Two turns later and I can't even see them in the rear view mirror. Five or six laps later and I am in their rear view mirror again.

Please don't embarrass yourself by overestimating your skills. It may cost you a severely wrinkled car, a permanent injury or your life. Attend a formal driving school like Skippy School, Bondurant or Panoz. Better yet, attend a Quattro Club, BMWCCA, Trackmasters, CarGuys, PDA type "school" and learn the major do's and dont's of driving a 3500lb car at high speeds on a track. Get as many different instructors in the car with you and ride with them. There are so many driving styles and tips that you will hear and all of them are valuable. You will be amazed at what you don't know (also known as what you can learn). Read a lot of books (i.e., Carroll Smith or Bondurant) and talk to as many people as you can at the track. Attend every event (NASCAR, Speedvision, SCCA) at the track(s) you drive to see the lines the pros use.

Driving is a never ending learning process. Don't think that attending a Skippy School is going to make you a great driver. Seat time will make you a great driver.

As for the flame war - BRING IT ON!!!

Mike O.

Your post was well written and thought out, no flame war needed. Well except for your subject header but hey, racing is all about talking smack at the line soooo. (more of a competitive ribbing). :)

You are absolutely right, Driving is a never ending learning curve and believe me I have taken a few driving courses (local, no to small ticket items). I like to learn and I like to ride with drivers that are faster then me, why? So I can learn, what makes them so fast, so smooth? What are they thinking, why are they taking that turn so late? Trust me I love to learn, make me faster/smoother, make it so my times make people question them as they didn't see it in the car, meaning I was not throwing it all over the place and to them it looked slow, but like they say "Sometimes you have to slow down to go fast", meaning smoothness!!

I will say I never stated I was the best driver out there. I stay away from that as there are much better drivers with more and less experience then I! I watched a couple guys have full on training, every event their mentor was out there, when I was there alone. By the end of the season, they nailed me, every time, wet or dry. I understand the merits of instruction thus the initial question about which school to go to. Yes I'm looking at around $3K, not $200.00, but again my wallet states I can only do this $3K thing once this year.

I'm here to learn, when I was at events I would try to ride with various drivers in various cars, I do want to learn and in no way am cocky (except for my subject line I guess!). I will go on record, I generaly have one of the nicest looking cars at events!! :) hahaha :))))

I will make it to events this year, hopefully I will be able to take some Me time from the job. I hope then to be able to ride with a few of you and see how much I still have to learn, and maybe show you that I do know a thing or two?

Also, I can go fast wherever, I just choose to do it at a santioned event. I will be honest, for $3K I would want to drive something that is a bit more exciting then a Neon, Not that I don't want to learn. You don't have to have the best equipment to learn the basics, but I do feel you have to have more advanced equipment to learn more advanced skills.

I'm trying to make friends that I can gain insight from not anything else! But I have a way of pissing people off before they actually meet me, then it's a whole different story! No, they don't full on hate me then!! hahaha quite the opposite! :)

Hope you had a great weekend..

Tory M. Blue
tmblue@pacbell.net
Bay Area, CA
2001 S4

For $3000 you could have about 15 track days this year. Remember, there is no substitute for seat time.

As for the Neon vs. spec racer. Very few people who are essentially green (never driven a well set up car at speed, never dealt with cockpit adjustable suspension, never driven on R-spec tires) don't get as much out of a school as those who learn on a car like a Neon (light & nimble) which exhibits characteristics that show you where the limit is. There is a considerable buildup to the limit in a "Neon" type car that doesn't exist in the Formula whatever school car. If you are lucky enough to find the limit of a Formula/Spec car at a school, you will likely find yourself in the grass or worst. It is much more difficult to learn "walking the line" in a Spec type car and therefore it is actually more beneficial to use the Neon.

Mike O.

I think ;)

It never ceases to amaze me what a GOOD driver can do with a "slow" car. The more powerful your car the more potential for big damage. Both to pocketbook and to health of yourself and possibly others.

Start cheaper! Miata, Sentra SE-R, Golf, Honda, etc. Stuff that can take a lot of track time w/o too much maintenance worries.

Just worry about the nut behind the wheel.

Warren

bone stock CRX on little tiny stock size street tires. He didn't have a lot of go on the straights but the only place it seems he lifted was going into Big Bend.

That's awesome (he can drive!).

Mike O.