True scenario; happens at least once a month at my dealership:<br>Early- to mid- twenties, getting established in new job, comes in to buy an A4. "My parents will be in to see it,too..." (Code for: $$$ help). Okay, no problem. "By the way, do you think you can give us something for Adam's '86 Accord?" You mean the one with three different color doors, broken odometer (shows 180k,been inop. for "awhile"), pot seed burns on all of the seats, and<br>ain't startin' without jumpers? Sure, no problem.<br>So far, so good. Oh, and of course, we've done all our "research" and you will sell us this new car for $750. over invoice. Well, almost. Time comes for first service, and dealer lends Adam a three-year-old Jetta for the day while his car is getting its free service, free wash 'n' wax, etc. <br>And poor Adam actually bitches about the free car he had to drive for the day. YGBFKM I mean, when the lawn mower shop lends me a lawn tractor for a week while they service mine, so I DON'T HAVE TO ASK MY NEIGHBOR IF I CAN BORROW HIS, DO I BREAK THEIR BALLS? "Oh, you can't leave a Toro here, I must have a John Deere or I'll take my business elsewhere!" YGBFKM<p>Let's get back on terra firma, people.

First of all, in terms of asking for something for the trade-in vehicle, I think just about all of us have found that dealers offer ludicrously low trade-in allowances, unless they are jacking up the purchase price to compensate. And, not everyone has a late model Mercedes in pristine condition to trade in.<p>It seems like you're looking down on the customer you describe, even though he's handing over $30,000 to you. It's that kind of attitude from dealers that drives buyers away.<p>Second, although I don't think it's right to complain about a loaner car (I'm happy to get anything), you act like you're providing free service to your customers. As with anything in life, it's not free; it was included in the purchase price of the vehicle. If Audi didn't provide service for 3 years, it would sell the car for less. Also, you (the dealership) are being paid by Audi when customers bring their cars in for "free" service, so you can't really complain. I suppose, though, that Audi doesn't pay the exaggerated "retail" prices you would collect directly from a customer.<p>Finally, if you don't want to sell a car for $750 over invoice, don't. No one is forcing you. If someone else will pay more, great. If not, let it sit on the lot. It's supply and demand. I don't see dealers feeling bad about charging well over MSRP for models that are in high demand, such as the New Beetle.<p>

...that Audi's buyers have to be at least 30, make at least 60 to 70 thousand a year (so they don't have to borrow money from anybody, God forbid their parents), and NEVER, EVER question what their dealer does...<p>GIVE ME A BREAK<p>You're the most whiny person I've ever heard on this board, and one of the biggest crybabies I've ever heard IN MY LIFE. If you're so angry with people and their posts on this board, then STOP COMING HERE. The purpose of this board is for people to be able to share stories and ask questions, both good and bad. I hope that you haven't told people what dealership it is you work for, because every time you complain and cry about customers and their test driving methods (or whatever your current gripe is), you make people want to shop with you less and less.<p>I also take personal offense to your gripe with young people buying cars...I'm 19 and I bought my 2.8 this summer. And I'm a student, so I don't make 60 to 70 thousand a year. And I test drove cars more than once. And I expect my car to be clean when I pick it up from service...I paid for it, I deserve it. Basically I'm the antithesis of everything it is you want the Audi buyer to be. Just because I'm not what YOU want every Audi buyer to be doesn't mean I don't deserve the same service as everyone else...your view is blindingly Elitist, don't you think? What are you, an Audi Nazi??<p>If you have such a problem with people...stop working there and stop coming here...your posts of this nature are not welcome (especially twice in a row)<p>So basically what I'm saying is, "YOU gotta be F@&!ing Kidding US!!!!!"<br>Take a valium, and stop complaining, big guy...or quit your job...that way you won't have to deal with punks like us...<br>Have a nice day, the rest of you... =)

A4 sales are up 50% from October, and in October they were up over 30% from September. You probably expect the customer to walk into this situation and happily pay sticker. You should be happy that the product you're selling practically sells itself.<br>I've been to many Audi dealers in the PA/NJ/DE area and most of them share your poor attitude and poor customer service.<br>Perhaps if you treated the customer like a customer, instead of a problem, you would be able to sell your A4s at a higher markup. Then we wouldn't have to take the time to set you straight. BTW, are you selling at $750 over invoice? If so, I'll take one.

I think I know what dealership JimH. works at. He's a nice guy and the dealership is pretty great. <br>They are very fair on price. It took about five minutes to agree to $1400 over invoice on an ordered car at the beginning of this year. The best any other dealer in the area would do was $2500 over. Also, they were very upfront about everything. At the time I picked up my car, people were talking about switching 7 to 5-spoke wheels and getting a cargo net. I got both with mine (although I paid to have the tires changed, which was fine with me.)<br>The service had been typical (Oh, that's just an internet rumor, etc.)but definetly improving. I like it when they wotk WITH me instead of just dismissing what I say.(Ok, Jim?) <br>I can't defend the way JimH has decided to respond on this board, but c'mon everybody. He has given some good information to the people here and is not as bad as he has come off.<br>Please undersatnd that this is just MY OPINION and I'm not looking for any flames (PLEASE!)<br>Thanks

The point of my post was how unbelievable some people's attitude/behavior is. I have had many "clappers" myself, and I've had help from my parents with things, but don't tell me someone as thoughtful as yourself would complain about a dealer giving you a new Grand-Am to drive for the day while your car is being serviced.

Like I said, would you tell the lawnmower shop that the tractor they brought you to use so you wouldn't have to BORROW your neighbor's wasn't good enough? I don't think you'd like to watch yourself on videotape having a hissy fit about the new Grand-Am that the dealer just rented you for the day,O.K? It ain't a pretty picture.

Maybe you can write a message about a positve experience you've had with a customer.<p>BTW, I'm picking up my A4 1.8TQMS (Bose, All weather, sport, moon roof) from YBH in 1 week. YBH bested Flemington by $76...still paying $1,493 over invoice lest you can do better.

The good news: I AM YBH. The bad news: We don't have any TT's in our loaner fleet, so don't ask! But, seriously, you'll love your car, you've already found out who's got the best deals, and, if you look me up when you pick up your car, I've got a small gift for you. Keep the shiny side up!

NT

Thanks Jim.<br>I'll be sure to look you up when my A4 comes in, which should be next week. I've been dealing with Morten D.<br>I hope to provide the group with a follow-up of my dealings with your dealership, which I hope will be positive.<br>Funny to see how people spend their time when the Eagles get blacked out.<br>Enjoy your Sunday.

And the saddest part in all this is that I think I'm your perfect customer, Jim.<p>This is early-to-mid 1996. A 2.8 Quattro A4 sits on the lot of Schaumburg Audi in Schaumburg, Illinois. I'm fifteen at the time. My father and I are present. We buy the white 2.8 A4Q off the lot and plan with the dealer that we will need another white A4 in the beginning of January in preparation for my getting a driver's license. The Audi A4 1.8T is not introduced yet, but it will be coming relatively soon. We explain that we will not be leasing either car, that we will buy each.<p>You laugh at people like me. We're young, we take making your product better as a challenge. If it takes a junkyard transmission and $5,000.00, that's fine, it just has to beat Joe's 3-series on track day. These aren't tough concepts. Many young people buy the A4 and modify it for the same reason many older people are lazy and buy an M3 Lightweight and race it stock. We aren't sixteen year old hoodlums conspiring against you to buy Boxsters instead of A4's because the two trunks of the Boxster hold automatic weapons more snugly, we're the real people.<p>We become so frustrated with Audi service that we execute on service items ourselves. That's great from your perspective because you don't have to work on our "silly" modified cars. I was actually once turned away from Audi service because the service guy couldn't fit into the Recaros and told me to get service elsewhere. That probably doesn't fit within your "good service" paradigm. Other advice I've gotten included "take this aftermarket crap elsewhere" and "that won't fit but if you pay us we'll try." All at Chicago-area Audi dealers.<p>I'm your perfect customer, Jim. Two cars get purchased after test driving once. We don't even bother you with the painstaking process of a test drive, having test driven a car in hard rain in Seattle at Barrier. Note that all the test drives I've ever taken with my father have been in the area's hardest or next-to-hardest rainstorm of the year. So we don't even clog up your prime-time sunny test drive period. Lastly, I'm so terrified of what an Audi service person might do to my car, that I do my own service, hence I don't force you to go through the lifelong heartache of getting compensation from Audi.<p>But if I'm the Audi dealer's favorite customer, I'm genuinely surprised that I get treated as such a know-nothing nightmare of a customer when I walk in.<p>At least I'm your perfect customer, Jim.<p>Cameron

<br>I was almost the same type of customer. I am 26 and I just started working again after going back to school for an MBA. I would have bought an A4 this summer if I had been sure of getting good service and any kind of loaner car. I am not saying that such places do not exist, I just have never seen one personally. I love Audis, I have 2 Quattros, I don't foresee ever NOT haveing an Audi. Nonetheless, I have no intentions of buying a new Audi from the dealer. I can get a used one and get better service elsewhere.<p>I also support Jim's view that people should appreciate good service and a pleasant loaner car, because it is so rare.<p>Todd W

You are correct in noticing that 99% of Audi buyers aren't the buyer that Jim H. the Audi salesman expects to meet.<p>Also, you are one of the few people to realize that the perspectives held by people on the Internet are not a good representation of the features of the real world.<p>Cameron

Why are you bit@$ing to us about people being people? If you don't like the job, find something else to do. More to the point, if you don't like us go somewhere else. Unless I missed something, like the whole forum walking into your dealership and pissing you off, there is no call for coming down hard on the people here.<p>I appreciate your frustration, but despite what you claim it is a very negative attitude that comes through in your posts. The people on this forum, as a group, don't deserve such treatment, whether we agree with the facts of the issue or not.<p>Todd W

o

<br>x

<br>However, when someone posts on the forum it goes to everyone, not just the people who need to hear it. It is very difficult to control how what you write is interpreted without being able to include body language and tone of voice. If you are upset when you write, it comes through and someone is going to take it personally. This is not a criticism, just something we have to be aware of when we post. I am struggling with it myself :-)<p>Todd W

<br>My experiences have spanned several states, but my luck is always to find the bad ones :( I really hope that there are nice dealers somewhere for several reasons, the least of which is that I want plenty of well maintained used Audis to chose from :^) It is really a shame that such a wonderful product can be so completely compromised by unpleasant dealers and bad service. A car is only as good as the worst mechanic that it has seen.<p>If I pay $25K for a new car, it HAS to be reliable. Service is a big part of this. If I am without a car for 2 days every time it needs an oil change, this is more down time per year than my 86 5KTQ with 200K. For example, it takes an entire day to get a fanbelt changed at the dealer. They give me a ride to work, but not a loaner (which would be ridiculous for an $80 service bill). <p>I should be able to make an appointment and wait for the car. I spend more time riding around in a minivan while it picks up/drops off 3 other people that it would take to fix my car. It took three fanbelt changes, on three seperate days, before they looked into what was wrong with the car. They said that my aftermarket turbo was too powerful. I took it to an independant garage, had the a/c compressor and a little mesh screen replaced(full of metal shards) and a double flush - and no problems since.<p>This isn't necessarily a horrible dealership compared to others, but it is entirely unacceptable from the consumer's standpoint. The market demands better, but very few provide it. Many industries, including dealerships, are behind the times. What was acceptable, or at least profitable, ten years ago no longer is.<p>Todd W

What's all this bashing!!!<br>Lay off!!!<br> If any of you have had an unpleasant salesman you would realize Jim's not it. He is very knowledgeable and helpful concerning A4's. This is his job, do any of you ever complain about YOUR work?!!! Do you ever generalize things in life? No one is PERFECT. <br> Thanks for your posts, Jim. I DO appreciate them and ya know what, be nice to your salesman. What goes around, comes around.<br> Karen <br>

That particular post was not meant as a "bash". See how easy it is to be misunderstood? Here I am agreeing with you and trying to get along after a rocky start . . . . :-}<p>Ah, well.

Sorry,couldn't resist! But seriously,thanks for your support!

As I've said before, I've had many more 45-50 year olds waste my time over the years who had no intention/ability to buy a car than I've had 18-22 year olds. Don't be so defensive about your age; enjoy it while you've got it.

nt<br>

19 yrs. old and you have a $30K plus car. You may be a very nice person, but you're spoiled (that's a factual observation, not an accustaion of character). When I was a 19 yr old student I bought my first new car, for $2,800, or about maybe $12k in current dollars. You can expect decent service, but you're a very lucky 19 yr. old to be driving an A4 2.8, and your rant was no better than Jim's observation/complaint, IMO.

my own personal preference, I don't CARE if they give me a free loaner, because I understand how a dealership operates (I have represented dealerships and a relative was the accountant for a couple of dozen major dealers in the NYC area)... it all goes into overhead, and is built into the price of the car you buy, or service, or both. <p>Since the dealer I go to gives free shuttle to/from public transportation, I'd just as soon not have [i.e., "pay for"] the free loaner: I use it at times and other times take public transportation, but the fact is the free loaners raise the price of the cars & service we buy, and we all subsidize the free loaners. There is no free lunch. You ARE paying for the loaner (Mazdas at my dealership) and I'd rather have a Mazda or GrandAm going into theoverhead I'm paying for than an A4 or A6 or whatever....

I hope you guys realize how lucky and pampered you are. I understand where you're coming from as an enthusiast driver, but some of you also come off as mightily spoiled brats at times. No flame, just a personal opinion.