I'm not looking for sympathy; just some suggestions on what I should do.<p>First, some background: Several years ago I owned a Nissan Maxima, and I got burned by a dealer who on several occasions charged me for work not performed. In each case, it was either too late to complain or I didn't have any real proof (ie: I was charged for having my transmission fluid and filter changed; it wasn't until a year later I learned that you can't change the filter without dismantling the transmission -- something they couldn't have done in the short time they had my car.) In addition to feeling duped, I gained a strong distrust for car mechanics.<p>To protect myself in the future, I started putting small marks or my initials on parts that were to be replaced, so I could check them afterwards to see if they really were replaced.<br>With my A4, I change my oil in between warranty-scheduled changes, approximately every 3,000 miles. When I install a new filter, I scratch my initials at the end of it.<p>Well, I arrived home after one warranty service, and using a flashlight I got on my knees and looked through the hole in the bumper to see if the initials were still on the filter. They weren't. Good, I thought. However, after checking the oil, I noticed that it was way up on the dipstick. I ended up having to drain out a quart of oil to get the level down to the "Max" mark.<p>After this happened a second time, I told the owner of the dealership about it. He replied that the oil is measured automatically, and he doesn't know how my crankcase could possibly be overfilled. But he left it at that and apparently never gave it another thought.<p>Well, last week I dropped off my A4 at the dealer for its final warranty service, which would include an oil and filter change. Later that day, the service manager called me at work and told me my car was ready. I asked him to please have the mechanic check to make sure the oil level wasn't overfilled, explaining that it was too high after the last two visits.<p>He acted surprised, but said he would have them check.<p>Later that evening as I was driving my car home, I noticed how bumpy the ride had become. I couldn't believe how bone-jarring the ride was, especially since I had adjusted the tires' air pressure to 32 psi -- what Audi recommends -- the day before. The next day when the tires were cold I checked them again, and all had about 36 pounds of pressure. Why had the mechanic added so much air?<p>Then I checked the oil. It was way up the dipstick again. Well, not wanting to complain to my service manager, who is a real nice guy, I decided to drain the excess oil myself once again. I crawled under the car and was about to loosen the drain plug, when I noticed some writing carved into the end of the oil filter. It read, "HI, *******."<p>Needless to say, I was pissed.<p>Well, two days later I returned to the dealership and told the owner of my discovery. To make a long story short again, he said he would "look into it." Later, he called me at work and said it was probably somebody in the Parts Department who was fooling around, and that it wasn't directed at me personally.<p>Overfilling my tires, overfilling my crankcase and scratching an obscenity into my oil filter wasn't directed at me personally????<p>He said that the mechanic told him he put the extra air in my tires because in his experience he found that the tires lasted longer. This mechanic has worked on my car for the last three years and NEVER put an ounce of air in my tires before. But now, after 28,000 miles of wear, he's concerned about tire life? Give me a break.<p>The owner basically tried to downplay the whole thing and offered to change my oil and filter again.<p>My question to all of you is: How should I handle this?<p>Even though my warranty is about to end, I will still need service, and my dealer is the only Audi dealership within 50 miles. Should I make a big stink about this, and risk damaging my relationship with everyone at the dealership, or should I drop it?<p>My real concern here is that the mechanic might have done something worse to sabotage my car -- like put brake fluid in the transmission, etc.<p>Any day now Audi of America is going to call to ask how I rate my dealer's service. Should I tell them what happened?<p>I'm sorry this was so long, but I didn't know of any shorter way of saying it. Thanks for listening.<p>StevenN, '96 A4 2.8qm <br>

Yes you should call Audi of America. Audi seems to have a club over a dealers head. If you do not receive high customer sat ratings your your dealership is at risk.

I wonder if it isn't best to report it to Audi at least as a CYA issue . . . . . <p>As for myself, I find that I don't do well in situations like that, as I'm not too smooth at conflict resolution. That's why I do most things myself; that way I can only blame myself.<p>(And that causes others to question why I'm not ecstatic about the "Free Service" concept, when it seems like such a good deal to them. But in my experience, nobody cares more about your stuff than you do, so why leave it to someone else's judgement unless you really know they will do it better than you?)<p>Sorry if that's of no concrete help, but if something was done to the car (and someone had to go through excessive lengths to carve that into your filter), at least it'll be on record with AoA.

Wow.<br>I would write the dealer a letter to memorialize what happened, including all of your conversations and interactions thus far.<br>Additionally, you may want to contact AofA to let them know about your experience. The whole idea of including maintenance with the sale of the car is to attract customers, not repel them with insults and awful (and seemingly intentional?) workmanship. <br>Oh, by the way, you didn't mention the name of the dealer.<br>Worried about retribution (perhaps coolant in your master cylinder)?<br>It seems to be a justifiable fear given the circumstances.

I understand your situation since it is the only stinking dealer in the area. First I have to say that if it would have been me I would have literally walked into the service department and asked who the **** worked on my car- I don't care how big the piece of **** is. I have dealt with the attitude they give you at some dealerships, especially me- I am 24...this speaks for how they must look at me, like a stupid kid.<p>Either way, you have EVERY reason not to have your faced rubbed in the mud by the owner, but he is. I would call AoA NOW and call pissed but polite. Even if you are a pain in the butt owner to that dealership (and I am not saying you are) you are a customer first.<p>All I can say is that if I lived near you I would LOVE to go into the dealership and pretend to be you. Just reading about what happened pissed me off. I think that you should be assertive and go into that dealership again and confront them- make them tell you who worked on your car that day, meet the moron and when he comes out tell him IN FRONT OF THE OWNER that you are personally going to tell everyone who owns Audis in the area not to have their car serviced by HIM. Since your warranty is up, screw it. Get your service done elsewhere- even if it has to be the BMW dealership. And if you ever feel you need special Audi service and you really don't want to go back -then it is worth the 50 miles- arrange to get it all done the same day at the other Audi dealership, at least you'll have a chance to go for a little drive in your A4 getting enough attention that you'll forget about that prick. WHAT A ****ING PRICK. sorry.<p>let me know what happens.

nt<br>

As of yet, I have not gotten a reply from them. 0 Tolorance, I will take them down. We all coughed up a nice chunk of change, and we should be treated with respect. If you have a complaint about somebody specific, email it to me and I'll get it to Audi of German. <p><br>You may reply to:<br>FAX: 626-312-6596<br>10/21/98<p><br>ATTN: Head AUDI Sales Manager<br>RE: McKenna Audi of Norwalk, CA<p><p> For the purpose of protection to those parties involved, names are withheld at this time but will be made available upon request; but I think this is cancerous amongst the entire group of sales people at McKenna, though and not isolated to a particular person.<p> I was there within the last 7 days, and the service provided me was, how shall I say it; ****. I will make the bold statement that even though I want to drive an Audi A4 more than anything, I would RATHER BUY A SATURN THEN BUY AN AUDI FROM YOU. Why? Because of SERVICE. Your service is pathetic and not even close to a match to the cars you sell. You have lost multiple sales due to your lousy service. <p> I belong on an Internet forum called a4.org and please allow me to paste a few of the forum member's comments about McKenna.<p>"Sorry for the pain-McKenna blows chunks. Try Advantage Audi/Jag in Loma Linda" (Anonymous)<br>"F _ _ K McKenna!! I had the same **** with them!" (Anonymous)<p> I know you are sitting there, and not taking this fax very seriously, and that's OK. Just know that www.a4.org has a few hundred readers a day, and they are all Audi owners or future Audi owners. You are hurting the very base of people you should be to marketing to. I will expect a public apology not just to myself, but all those customers you have lost. You can fax to the fax number above, or email an apology to jteller@a4.org, and ask him KINDLY (I know you guys have a problem with the concept of "kindness") to post it on the www.a4.org forum for all to read. If you are in the business of running off people who want to buy your cars, that's fine with me, resign, and read up on the concept of Capitalism. You will not be in business long if these practices continue, I WILL SEE TO IT. You insult the concept of Audi, and perpetuate the stereotype of what the sleezy car salesmen image. One of your salesmen said this to me "YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME AND EFFORT IF I CANNOT MAKE AT LEAST 10% OFF OF YOU". Nice attitude, words I want to hear when I walk into a dealership… NOT!<br> Please do me a favor, I don't want excuses, I want change. I want you to say, "I am sorry, and every effort is underway to change the attitude of the sales people we have here." Just one sentence, that's what I want to hear. I have the money, and nobody would sell me a car. I call that problematic to business, wouldn't you? I don't know if it's age discrimination nor do I care, I just want it changed. You have 1 month (30 days from now) to submit an apology to one of the two locations stated above. If I do not hear from you, I will have no choice but to assume that you are blowing me off like all your other sales people do, and that they have learned it from you. At that point in time, I will fax this letter to Audi of America, as well as Audi of Germany, and request a charter review of your dealership. Empty threat? Maybe, try me.<p> <br> Fed up with Bad Service,<br> Albert Yang.<p><p>

First of all, as you all know, I live near Shaumburg Audi, the worst Audi dealer in Chicago. We have two A4's, neither has been to the dealer in more than a year except for one stop. The dealer is horrible, has horrible customer service, has no idea how the transmission component set works or how to modify it or how to treat modified cars, and the term "*******" has been used a couple of times and pointed at a couple of different people.<p>Solution for revenge:<p>Get a ton of people (owners of 12 of the 20 cars they sold in January of this year, for instance) to protest to Audi of America. When you call, specifically tell them the dealer should not have *any* of the following, tell them the dealer told you what to say on the customer service evaluation (if they did, like Shaumburg Audi did), and tell them you plan to have all your maintenance done at a Porsche dealer from now on (Barrington MotorWerks in my case).<p>Bad dealers should not be allowed to have any of the following, in my opinion:<p>1) Silver cars<br>2) Cars with sunroofs<br>3) Cars with Quattro<br>4) Any new VAG equipment<p>This is all controlled in Houston for the midwest. Shaumburg Audi is an example of a once-good dealer where the owner left and the dealer has turned into a horrible place. MotorWerks is an excellent dealer and is a Porsche/Jaguar/Lotus/Etc. dealer that works on racing 928's to XK8's to A4's. They know their stuff, and they're great. I hope there's a similar dealer in your area. If not, it's time for you to meet up with tons of people at your dealer and convince them to go to the VW dealer down the street.<p>Tell them:<p>"Having my car treated like a Passat down the street is so much better than being treated like crap at your dealer. Have a nice day."<p>And see what happens. If your car is damaged, photograph the filter, swap it out and put it in a bag to be used as evidence, and tell a court the dealer sabotaged your car's usefulness.<p>Bad dealers shouldn't be tolerated. Further, they don't deserve to remain in business.<p>Cameron

The dealer will do you in one way or another, faulty service, ding/scratch your car, make it run worse than when your brought it in....it has happened to all of us sometime!<p>The best thing for you ,like me, is to perform all your own work. Change the oil and filter, plugs, rotate tires, etc. The 3 year "free" service only causes headaches in the long run. If you have major problems...take it in but tell them don't touch anything else, not even washing the car or you can end up with scratches (I have).<p>If you do your own work, you will sleep better!

(nt)<br>

no advice, just a similar story. long.<p>last week took my wife's honda in for an<br>inspection to vista honda in ventura. we're<br>selling it to buy an a4. everything checked<br>out except front brake pads reported at 0%.<br>the service writer said (in front of the<br>buyer), "have to turn the rotors, you've<br>damaged them because you ran the brake pads<br>out. you'll have to sign a disclaimer stating<br>you are aware of the dangers and that we've<br>warned you."<p>i ok'd the service, since i do intend on selling<br>the car in good working order. i was in a hurry<br>and had to get back to work. on the way to work<br>i was thinking... "don't you think i would have<br>detected metal on metal if the brake pads were<br>really 0% and the calipers or something was coming<br>in contact with the rotors???" so the next day<br>when i went to pick up the car, i questioned the<br>service writer's manager. after 30 minutes of<br>BS excuses, we got the mech who did the work,<br>he had the brake pads still. the pads were pretty<br>worn, i'd say about 90%, but still pad on rotor.<br>the mech did not recommend rotor work, just that<br>the pads needed replacement. the service writer<br>pulled the rotor work out of thin air. well the<br>svc mgr tried to make it sound like it was my<br>fault, cuz i didn't insist on seeing the pads<br>before the work was done. jimmeny christmas!<br>what bloody kook would take perfectly sound<br>rotors off the car, and machine them? what's<br>there to machine? who's to know if was even<br>done? they were perfect to begin with... the<br>car only has 24K miles on it... less than<br>2 yrs. old.<p>needless to say, i raged until the idiot svc<br>mgr said he'd comp the rotor machining. great!<br>free work that wasn't needed, and probably wasn't<br>performed. then he had the gall to say "we aim<br>to please" or something to that effect. my ass.<p>i have had similar experiences on numerous <br>occassions at different dealers and independent<br>shops.<p>how can you go through life screwing people all<br>the time?<br>

Albert, you have posted a couple of times regarding your sales experience at Audi dealer(s). You said before and again above that you'd rather go buy a Saturn becaue the Audi dealer wouldn't discount to your satisfaction. As I understand it, Saturn has a fixed-price policy, no negotiation possible. Isn't their profit margin over invoice in the range of 10%, or higher (maybe 15% on some of their cars)? If you are willing to go in and happily pay that, why all the anger at an Audi dealer that wants 10%? People insist on cutting a dealer's profit on an Audi to $1500, or even $800 in some cases lately, and feel they are being ripped off if the dealer makes as much profit as a furniture dealer makes on a $2500 dining room set.<p>It seems to me that any auto dealer has the right to ask whatever they want for their cars. The customers can take it or leave it. Personally, I thing the ultimate answer is Saturn-like fixed prices at all new car dealerships. There's a lot of advantages to it: no one feels ripped off, even though they actually paid more, the value of the used cars holds up better because there was no deep discounting affecting used prices, no one has to get mad at anyone else, etc. But I don't think we'll see anthing like this very soon. Some dealers experiment with it, offering very fair fixed prices, but the customers just take their quotes down the road to another dealer who beats it by $100 and makes a sale. It's really unfortunate that new car buying has turned into such a ridiculous game, each side trying to outwit the other.<p>Don't take this message as an attack on you. It's just something to think about. I'm guessing the attitude at the dealerships you visited definitely left a lot to be desired. (And I haven't gotten into the service issues that you posted about).

You may want to protect yourself by documenting the incident and sending a signed letter to AoA describing the incident and requesting a reply so that you know they got it. I would also send a letter to the local Better Business Bureau and make AoA knows it went there also. Make a copy for yourself. You will then have a paper trail in case something does go wrong. You can call but you won't have anything physical to fall back on like a letter. I don't think they would damage your car but you never know. Someone should be fired for carving that into your oil filter. Just state the facts if you decide to do so. I'm hoping you can find an independent garage to work on your car. I wouldn't take it back to that dealer if you can avoid it. <p>Mark (98.5 2.8 QMS)

Just a further thought. We all expect to be treated like kings/queens whenever we visit the service department. But the service department is part of the rest of the dealership, and its existence depends on the dealer keeping the franchise and surviving financially. At most dealerships, the service dept. is now where the profit comes from because of low profits on new cars (used car sales are also usually profitable). So, the dealership owners are telling the service manager to get their profits up. The way to do this is to sell lots of service, necessary or not. Another way is to not spend unbilled time talking with the customers, finding out what the symptoms are, etc. And sometimes customers end up getting mad when they find out that something may not have been completely honest (like the rotor work on the Honda, posted recently).<p>So, what ends up happening is that a customer comes in to buy a new car,negotiates it down to where the dealership is really making next to no profit after paying the bills, and then the customer comes in for service expecting royal treatment. Then the customer ends up upset that it didn't work out that way. (What do you mean, No free loaner car? You didn't vacuum the floormats? They weren't that dirty when I came in. How can you charge $20 for an oil filter?) Some dealerships, the ones that essentially were brand new (Saturn, Infiniti, Lexus) seem to be getting things mostly right. The others (such as Audi) have a real problem trying to satisfy customers who want it both ways.<p>Philosophically, similar things are happening in other product lines, such as applicances. Customers are starting to buy at the cut-rate retailers that don't even service what they sell. Then when the customer needs service, he/she whines to the dealer that they didn't buy from, expecting to be treated like an old friend, and right now, too. (I know a Maytag dealer that when someone calls for service, his first question is "where did you buy it?" Customers seem to be dumbfounded that it even matters to the dealer.<p>On a slightly different angle, why do customers care so much about how much the dealer makes on the car, but couldn't care less how much the manufacturer makes? On certain SUVs (e.g., Lincoln Navigator), the manufacturer is making $15,000 per unit. But customers buy them anyway, as long as they don't feel ripped off by the dealer. I think it has something to do with the invoice prices being available to the public, tradition, self-esteem, and lots of other things. But it sure isn't logical.<p>By the way, I play the game too.

Poor dealer/service network IS a real concern to me and if they don't clean it up<br>I will pass on the A4 and go with the 323i as my next replacement car even if<br>the A4 is a better snow car.....the dealer in my area handles 4 unrelated brands<br>and I'm wondering how well they can service any of them?

It really is disheartening to hear these stories and there's not much someone like me with 0 mechanical knowledge can do.<p>gus<br>98.5 2.8q w/ 3 lateral dings from parking lots<p>

The above post is not in any way shape or form associated with Gus' Kick Ass Postings! Get your own freek show! By the way I do pump my own gas when supervised by an attendant!

as well as show them that you are not be messed with and I bet they'll think twice before doing anymore funny bisuness with your car! I can't believe the etching on the filter bs. That's way out of hand. You have a lot more control than me. I would have been at the dealer 10 minutes after I saw that, causing a BIG problem. But then again that would never happen at my dealer. What kind of clowns do they have working there. Are you at all interested in saying which dealer it was? <p>You need to make them understand that you KNOW your car and you KNOW they have wronged you and you TOLD AoA and if they get out of line AT ALL with you, not only will you find out FOR SURE but so will AoA.<p>Damon

Unless one is a communist out to destroy corporate profits, I think 90% of car buyers buy a ____ (fill in Audi for us) because they want to see Audi succeed, make better products, make upgrades to make their car better, because they believe in the company and the technology, etc. Frankly, if Audi makes the A4 for $5,000 and sells it to me for $30,000 I'm happy to pay. I don't care that Audi makes 600% on the sale, in fact I think that's great because they can use that additional profit to finance improvements to the A4, S4 and TT, the three other cars in the product line that I'm interested in. I love the fact that a company can, in this cut-rate cut-throat dealer economy, make a marvelous product and make a product. That really says something about BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and other successful automotive firms. If Audi makes 600% and my dealer (who I hate) makes almost nothing, the way I see it everyone is getting what he deserves -- including me, as I get an A4 for 600% what Audi's net production costs come to, which I'm happy to pay because the A4 is worth $30,000.00 to me as a consumer.<p>I don't care what people make on the deal, I care about the cost of the car relative to what I believe the car is worth.<p>Cameron<br>

I agree with parts of what you have said but you are wrong. I walked in there prepared to get reamed in the pricing because I know about the availability. That wasn't the issue I had. I paid just the same at Rusnak (almost) and I was more than happy to cough up the money. The difference? Jennifer (at Rusnak) said that she really can't go lower on the price. I wasn't there to make sure that she didn't make a commission, that' wasn't my intention at all. She was honest with me. She cared about my satisfaction (at least a little bit). When I go to a dealer, I don't EVER want to hear that I am not worth his time. What kind of attitude is that? <p>There is this italian restaurant by my house. Best food and service in the world. I tip 20% when I go there, my gf thinks the waiters are cute and tips 25%. And we walk out of there tipping over 20% and still smiling. It's not the money, it's the service. I would have been more than happy to cough up 12% over invoice if I thought I got good service. Saturn proves that concept to a T. Have you ever been to Sam Woo's or one of those hole in the wall chinese restaurants that is really dirty? Cantonese restaurants where the food is cheap and the service is bad. The service is so bad that you say, "Good thing the food is cheap otherwise I would never come here" and you don't expect good service when your food is $3.25 a plate, But when you go to Le Cirque or some place like that and you order your $125 Filet, prepared by Chef Geogre, then you do care about service. I didn't get in debt and plan to cough up $30+K of my hard earned money to get bad service. Why is it that you tip the skimpy dressed waitress more than the rude bearded bartender? Same reason. You got the same glass of beer but somehow it seems different.<p>Albert

<br>x

I had a similar situation on a Honda where the shop insisted on turning the rotors, replacing the piston, calipers, and pads. I accepted because I wanted to sell the car and buy an A4 or 328i. The next day after the repairs I was driving to my girlfriends house (about 200 miles from home), and the front brakes completely failed on the drivers side. Horrible noises, just a big dangerous mess. No shop in town could take my car for 2 days, so my girlfriend called her VW/Audi Service guy at her dealership (where I had been testing A4s for about 5 months) and he took the car in, found that the shop hadn't replaced a retaining bolt. He was very cool, called my shop and yelled at them, then fixed the brakes himself and billed it to the shop at home. Any wonder I bought my A4 from that dealership 3 weeks later?

Albert, my friend,<p>If I worked for this dealership, I'd have a hard time taking this note seriously. Certainly you sound serious, but your letter would be so much more effective if you tempered your emotions and re-worded the letter to sound more professional. <p>What bothers me most is how poorly written it is for a business correspondence. The way this letter is written, I'd guess that you were still in high school. I know that sounds harsh, but that's the way it comes across. This kind of writing is fine here on the forum, but to get the most attention and respect, you have to write your letter in a business style. Ok, you don't *have* to, but you'll be taken more seriously if you do. If you continue this campaign, I suggest that you have someone else proofread your letters for usage/style/grammar/etc. I'd like to see your letters get the attention they deserve, and I'll offer to help if you want.<p>Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.<p>Drew S.<br>

I could have taken an approach of a less internal dialog based fax, and taken a more professional one.... BUT, I feel that they should treat me the same if I'm in shorts and T-shirt as when I am in a 3 piece suit. Same with a fax. I said what I felt in a the 1st person from my room in my boxers while sipping ice tea. Now if it sounds less than professional, have you considered the reason why it's so? What would sound better, <p>"Dear Sir, I would like to make a formal complaint about the service which was provided for me, an Audi shopper...." Or the bottom line, your service was ****? The second one sounds a lot closer to the truth. :-) <p>Albert

I found your service to be unsatisfactory. On the day that I visited your showroom, I was treated rudely and inappropriately by your sales team. As an example, one of your salespersons said to me:<p>"You are not worth my time..."<p>This behavior is unacceptable and I fully intend to escalate this matter to Audi of America.<p><hr noshade><p>Something along these lines does a few things:<p>1) expresses your displeasure with their service<br>2) provides the incentive (threat) for them to take you seriously<br>3) legitimizes the complaint (i.e. this is a real complaint, not some person whining)<p>I think AoA would work harder to resolve a problem if the letter is written this way, vs. the off-the-cuff, emotional, and foul-languaged response.<p>Yes, they should treat you well regardless of your appearance. But, people make judgements of each other every day. It's a fact of life. Obviously, salespeople shouldn't do this. You can fight it, but it's a losing battle. When it comes to the written word, they won't have a picture or mental image of you for reference. They only have your letter. A 12 year old can be taken seriously if they write well.<p>I think what I'm getting at is "diplomacy". Learn it. Use it. You will need it for the rest of your personal and professional life.<p>Cheers.<p>Drew S.<br>

civility in communications? what is the world coming to? nt