Model: 1997 A4 1.8TQ<p>Here's my question to you. I bought the car I bought because it didn't have side airbags and it was on the lot. My only objection now is the transmission and its limitations. Which is a less expensive upgrade choice:<p>1)<br>* Sell used AMS-modified transmission (Tip)<br>* Buy Porsche 996 ZF transmission (Tip)<br>* Upgrade to K04 goodies<p>2)<br>* Upgrade to K04 goodies<br>* Blow up current transmission (Tip)<br>* Retrofit a manual transmission<p>Opinions?<p>Cameron

My suggestion, trade in car and get a 99 manual of course!!.. Then chip, K04, or maybe go with T3/T4 greedspeed turbo upgrade, intercooler upgrade...etc.. At least that's my modification path..<p>Dmak 1.8TQMS

You have to pay someone who is a registered explosives technician to remove your airbags... you'd be trading in a car without seats... without other various original parts... with a roll cage installed... with no usable back seat... if the floorpan pattern has changed from 97 to 99 you need a new adapter bracket from Recaro... the car you're selling wouldn't have a bunch of other things and probably wouldn't be safe to drive off the lot after you took the things you wanted from it.<p>Cameron<br>

nt<br>

How long do you plan to keep the car? To what degree is money really an object? Did you keep any of the original parts that you removed or replaced?<p>My first thought was "why not just trade your car in on a '97 with manual?" This would cost something, but probably less than your options above. I think you answered that question, but if and when you ever plan on trading it in, you're going to run into the same problems. If you kept the original seats, etc., can't you just replace them?<p>I'm no expert, but my impression was that transmissions for these cars are really expensive. To spend that kind of money on a car which you think has questionable trade-in value seems imprudent, unless you plan on keeping the car for a really long time. Even then, I would question the relative cost/benefit of your options above versus simply trading the car in on a '97 with manual (even if you have to accept a low bid on your current car).<p>Rich D.<br> <p>

As stated above, I never plan to sell the car. Period. Not in ten years, not in fifteen, not ever. I don't plan for this to be the last transmission that goes into the car. I don't plan that the engine in the car will be the last engine in the A4. I cheer every time another VW product gets the 1.8T because it means more engines will be available for my car in the future.<p>Yes, there are more cost-effective ways to deal with your car than the ones I've chosen. Is cost really an object? Sure, I'll say yes. But I can't say that it really is in the long-run. If a good transmission to match the K04 running hot costs $8,000.00 then I'd buy it. If it costs $3,000.00 from a wrecked 911/996, I'd buy it. If I could salvage the transmission from a junkyard A84.2Q where the insurance company said, "No way, aluminum body panels, we're saying the car was totalled," I'd get it. No matter what, it costs less to upgrade to another automatic in the ZF line with a tougher torque converter than it does to change my car into a manual. Drilling the floorpan for a clutch pedal, reshaping the firewall around the clutchplate assembly, reworking the flywheel positioning, stripping the current transmission positions... all these things cost significant amounts of money too.<p>There's no cheap way to upgrade. Or, as the saying goes, "Horsepower kills engines." Well, it kills other things too... like the ZF5hp19.<p>Cameron

nt<br>

I'm willing to bet that you won't have this car in 3 years (for a multitude of reasons)..

Hi,<br>I have an A4 that is 1.5 years old and I plan to keep it for a while like my first car out of school. It is a VW Jetta GL 1988 (bought new....)<br>Miles : 114,300 miles<br>Age : 11 years in April '99<p>I believe these new cars are built to last...now maintenance cost is yet another matter...!! My VW did cost me a bundle each time it went to the shop. Average cost per year for the last 5 years :<br>$420/- (this includes scheduled tune-up by the dealer...I know....ugh...why the dealership even though she is older than 10 year's old...) <p>Kandiah<br>97 A4 QM

The car will accept five different engines, all of which are in widespread production and are likely to be available for an engine swap in the future. The car will accept the seats I want, the cage I want, has the four-wheel-drive system I want.<p>And, to be frank, it would be cheaper for me to pay Intended or another shop to swap in a 30v with a supercharger at some later date than it would be to trade the car now.<p>Cameron<br>

I live in Los Angeles, and it seems like walking is faster then getting on the freeway. . . still, i do all the shifts myself! We're not talking about a M5 or M6 with a 50 pound clutch, this car is so ridiculously easy to drive that it's not even an issue. =)<p>Edmund Louie<br>98 A4Q 30V

Did I say that any of the multitude of reasons include the car's ability to last 10 or 15 years?

There are still racing spec Audi 5000's out there, running fine, new engines, new transmissions, new parts every now and then. The number of coupe quattros in as good condition is falling, but partly due to lack of investment and lack of parts availability here in America. Two-side galvanized steel and a repaint when needed is more than enough insurance against rust. The turbocharged five-valve four should be more reliable than the 5000's turbocharged five. A good transmission paired with an engine with enough power to turn it but not enough power to push it to its limits should last a long, long time.<p>What am I missing here, E?

Given your apparent desire to maximize performance, it's hard to believe you'd be satisfied with a tiptronic transmission of any kind. In the A4 1.8T (or the 996 for that matter), isn't the tiptronic _significantly_ slower than a manual would be? If you're going to keep the car forever, and do all these modifications, wouldn't you want a manual transmission? <p>I would think you would want to cut your losses now. I don't know what you think you could get for your car, but there are people who would be glad to buy a bargain, stripped, performance modified A4 1.8T (though the Tiptronic might hurt). <p>If you're going to keep the car forever, I would think you should get the car you really want, not keep pouring money into the car you happen to currently have. Obviously, if you're willing to spend unlimited dollars, you can transform your current car, but then that makes your original question (which upgrade is more expensive?) sort of moot.<p>Anyway, good luck.<p>Rich D.

Cameron,<p>As I originally said, I believe that YOU will not keep this car for a long time. I NEVER said that the car could not last 10 or 15 years. The reasons that I believe this are many, and they are based on your personality, NOT on technical reasons.<p><br>

Cameron, I believe the price of a JUNKYARD 996 transmission is 50% of the price that a Porsche shop would quote you for one. That is what I found when I wanted a junk seat for my Honda. I suggest you trade in your car.<p>Bill<br>ATP Rotorcraft/CFII Rotorcraft

nt<br>

nt<br>

I guess that's a viable solution to all this. I'll keep thinking over the Christmas holiday, this isn't that pressing an issue.<p>Cameron<br>

You mentioned you went to the "parts bin" for a R2L TEK piece...without synchros, I believe, you said...implying manual...<p>What happened to that?<p>steve<p>

The R2L transmission kit... designed originally as a "beefier" transmission augmentation for the 5hp19, the transmission for my current Tip setup (which was a fit from AMS). I tried it, but it had some other problems... it didn't seem to feel much different, though I couldn't think of a good way to nondestructively test such a thing for more horsepower. Also, it removed the rev limiter and made third gear a very uncomfortable place to sit for any period of time. I decided to remove it. It's a solid two hours to install and three to deinstall and have it look decent afterward. Perhaps the kit is incomplete, who knows? But, for $650.00, it was worth a try. Gave it back to the "friend" who provided it and got my cash back less fifty bucks. I won't mention names here.<p>Cameron

There are a few lying around in warehouses and so forth, so I figured I owed you people more of an explanation than above. First of all, it *is* a "custom" kit, in that you choose exactly how aggresive you need it to be. But there are only so many choices, only one available from the person I talked to. I paid, originally, $3650.00 for the kit in its "3" configuration (rated from one to five). I was dissatisfied and decided to send it back to the person who provided it... but he told me the company had since gone out of business and I could keep it. I asked him for my cash back. He gave me the $3000 back that I'd originally offered for the kit (keeping 650). Finally, after having to get dirty looks from the dealer after breaking a couple things running the R2L gear, I called the guy and gave him the "You're lucky this was covered under warranty and they didn't void my warranty and blah blah blah." His offer was to return my final $600. I took the deal, and I don't regret it.<p>BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR TRANSMISSION.<p>I can't say that enough times. It costs less to blow three turbos than it costs to blow your trans. Don't do it. Don't be stupid. Only get stuff from vendors and people you trust. Only get it if you trust IT, not just the buddy who gave it to you. Last of all... act like you haven't a clue what went wrong when you show up at the dealer and hope they don't see that the center console never quite lined up right again.<p>Stay away from the R2L kits, that's just my advice to those who wish to take it. It isn't worth it, believe me.<p>Cameron

Call up the Porsche dealer and find out the retail price for a transmission;bet me it's more than $12,000. Take 50% of that. Installation costs $$$<p>Also, I don't know you personally,but I find I'm always saying I'm going to keep a car forever,and then the next thing you know Audi comes out with the A4, or Volvo comes out with the C70. Never say forever.<p>Bill