I am trying to figure out the reasons?<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM<br>

I know that some other models in the article are not new, but the A4 is unchanged for at least three years. I do not remember if it made the top ten any of those years, but I think it did.Other than that, I don't really know.

The outgoing E36 BMW 3-Series made the list six years in a row. The Audi A4 made it to the list 3 years in a row (1996-1998). It was selected among the field of cars considered for the Top 10 list. There were probably a few new entries this year (Chrysler 300M,Lexus GS, Dodge Intrepid, etc.) that bumped the A4 off the list. The Honda Prelude also didn't make it again this year. <br>

Reread C&D's own cover story comparo of just a couple of months ago, ask yourself whether it ever rains where you live (forget about snows),<br>ask your friend how much it cost him to have his 30k maint. w/pads,rotors and a front end alignment done on his 328i, and then give yourself a good,long pat on the back for making the choice that you made. <p>Oh,yeah: take a GOOD LOOK at the rest of C&D's winners ;-}

NT

Because it is not a mini van with BMW driveability and sliding side doors on both side for under $ 20,000.00.<p>Who knows and who cares what Car and Driver thinks. That could rank it worst of the worst and I would still like my A4.

BMW's are FINE automobiles...but they don't warrant THREE spots! 3 AND 5 series...perhaps...but forget the Z3...it was tired before it came out.<p>Just my opinion.<p>Wesley Walls<br>'98 1.8TMS<p>(A6 may have won a spot if it had a decent powerplant to move it's extra weight around...it doesn't help that it isn't offered with a 5-speed)

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Not.<p>I'm puzzled, too. I guess they figured that the A4 was too close to the 328 to be included, and wanted to leave room for other classes and models.<p>But there's no way in hell I would trade my Avant for any of the top ten listed. (Well, OK, maybe for the 5 series or the M Coupe, but only straight up!)

and because if you really wanted to drive a VW product, the Passat is a much better deal. It's roomier, better looking and has the same exact engine choices and the newer A6 chassis for $5,000 to $10,000 less. That's what happens when you re-brand and sell the same product for much less. Good for VW, bad for Audi.

at slightly more than 30,000 miles. See C&D's Long-term wrap-up about the A4 Quattro. If you wanted VW reliability, it would be cheaper just to buy a VW instead.

After driving around some of the rental cars I've driven lately I've come to like the a4's cup holders. It holds my Nissan stainless just fine thank you...<p><br>-randy<br>

Not<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

Where can you get a comparably equiped 3 series for the same price as an A4??? Nowhere, buddy.<p>Also, you may want to get your facts straight. The chassis used for the passat is a stretched A4, not an A6 chassis. And the only time it would be better looking is if Claudia Schiffer is sprawled out naked on the hood...<p>Hey Bob, whats your name spelled backwards???

It is scarcely the last word on inherent goodness, which, we all know, the A4 has in spades. Those writers want to appear chic, thoughtful even. It's kind of like the old Nine Lives commercial, with Morris the Cat. All the bragging rights in the world won't help any of those cars on a foul-weather day, nor will they afford their buyers a better warranty. Incidentally, nice machine though it may be, has anyone noticed how butt-ugly that BMW coupe thing is?<br>

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Although I imagine it helps to ply their greasy hands with advertising lucre. %^)

:Where can you get a comparably equiped 3 series for the same price as an A4??? Nowhere, buddy.<p>The 323i starts at 26,400 for the classic inline 6. Why buy an Audi when you can have a BMW. Might as well buy the VW for much less.<p>:Also, you may want to get your facts straight. The chassis used for the passat is a stretched A4, not an A6 chassis<p>The A6 chassis is a stretched A4 chassis.<p>For me the Passat is better looking and a lot Passat owners will feel the same way.<br>The A4 looks too small, and the width actually is too small with no shoulder room. I say get the new 3-series if you're into prestige.<br>

Where did you get the information that the Passat is built on the A6 platform? It is a modified A4, with steering and suspension modifications. Mind you that it is NOT the same as the A4 platform because it is obviously stretched for the larger body dimensions of the Passat.<p>I agree that the Passat is a handsome car, but I certainly don't rate it as somehow superior to the A4. The Passat is cheaper, and in fact, looks cheaper. The interior is positively bituminous and in my mind not at all attractive.<p>I understand that the much ballyhood Synchro will not be available for some time, if at all, and you won't be able to get it in any case without Tiptronic and the 2.8 liter 6.<p><br>And how on earth do you come up with $5000-$10000 price difference? Based on list price, it's more like $3,000-$5000! My wife was quoted nearly the exact same lease payment on her A4 compared to what VW quoted a Passat which listed at $4000 less, and lacked Quattro ($1650 list).<p>If you want any credibility on this NG, you should get your facts straight before posting misinformation.

you wrote:<br>:Where did you get the information that the Passat is built on the A6 platform?<p>New York Times wrote on 12/20/97:<p>The roofline, coupled with the high "belt" -- the line that runs below the side windows, shows a family resemblance to the Volkswagen Passat. That car, which is also all new for 1998 and has a base price of about $21,000, does share the A6's basic architecture.<p>:And how on earth do you come up with $5000-$10000 price difference? Based on list price, it's more like $3,000-$5000!<p>I'm sorry, I meant to say $10,210 for the upper bound. I was rounding the number down for your benefit. How did I arrive at that number for the upper bound? I subtracted the price of a fully loaded A4 model ($38,710) from the most expensive Passat currently available (the Passat wagon at $28,500).<p>:If you want any credibility on this NG, you should get your facts straight before posting misinformation.<p>You can verify everything that I've stated. You're the one who needs to get a clue and stop posting misinformation.<br>

Bad weather? thats what the 'other' car is for.<p>Warranty???? Hyundai beats Audi !<p>and the so-called 'free maint' programs are only good<br>people who lease or don't give an Sh*t about their cars.<p><br>

Can't comment on the article you quoted regarding the Passat having the A6's "basic architecture", but it doesn't change the fact that the Passat is built on the A4 platform. You have either misquoted the article, or the article is simply incorrect. Do a little more research and you will find this to be correct.<p>As far as the price of the Passat vs the A4, perhaps you should take into consideration COMPARABLY EQUIPPED vehicles. If you do so, you will find the difference in price is in the $3000-$5000 range as I have stated.<p>

The Audi warranty covers both a lease or purchase. I have owned two A4's and have found that it takes very good care of anything and everything. The only thing the warranty does not cover is the tires and they are covered by Dunlop. I had one of the first A4's in the country then upgraded to a 98 when the new motor came out. Audi has been berry berry good to me. I can't say the same for my friends with BMW's.

Actually the M Coupe looks much better in person as compared to pictures. I saw a blue M at the Nurbergring in Germany and it was very tough indeed. It sounded like a serios machine when it took off down the road. I don't care for the looks that much, however it is all business.

VW builds many cars on the cross platfrom concept. The Audi A3 platform has no fewer than 7 other cars built on it. This however doesn't mean that all of the cars are the same. In fact the models are very distinct from one another. <p>No John the Passat is not built on the A6 paltform it is built on the A4 platform. If you have ever driven the two side by side you would know that the difference in feel and interior finish are great.<p>I really get tired of these armchair quarterbacks who haven't touched the machines the supposedly know so much about.

The 328 can't be touched for the same money as a A4 2.8. The 323 is a better comparison. The 323 cost over $26,000 with nothing on it. Hey BMW even throws in the gross looking junk wheels for free. The sport package on the 323 was out of sight too, my buddy almost choked when they told him how much. I just got my mom a 1.8T with almost all the goodies for $24,000 even. I'm talking sport package, sunroof, alarm, power everything. The bimmer is no bargain, and you can't get quattro.

They should rename the mag Truck & Steering. If I have to see one more article in Car & Driver on SUV's and hot rod pick up trucks I'm going to ralph. Intrepid, Accord, 300M, YAWN, YAWN. Just wait for the S4 and the TT, now that will put Audi back on top.

who despises them? A4 most likely my next car when I can sell the GEO...just don't like b.s. and the person was full of it.<p>

Kinda hostile huh? Passat owners say they like their car better than the A4 because when they went to the Audi dealership and compared the payment to how much their salary is they choked. I'm sure a lot of Camry owners like their car better than Lexus ES300 owners too huh?<p>A4 is a flashy status car... the Passat... well is a family sedan.

you wrote:<br>:Can't comment on the article you quoted regarding the Passat having the A6's "basic architecture", but it doesn't change the fact that the Passat is built on the A4 platform. You have either misquoted the article, or the article is simply incorrect. Do a little more research and you will find this to be correct.<p>I did my research. Why don't you try doing some too? The link for New York Times articles I quotes is below.<p>http://www.nytimes.com/library/auto/wheels/971221auto.html<p>The Passat is built on the newer A6 platform. It has a much longer powertrain warranty, the exact same engines and suspension components, the exact same fit and finish, comparable paint job, the same tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel and window switches, the Passat is roomier, and all for $10,000 less. Why pay more for the exact same thing? Is the Audi marque, which is still best known for the sudden acceleration accusation, worth the extra $10,000??? Do a little homework and you'll realize that it's not.<p>:As far as the price of the Passat vs. the A4, perhaps you should take into consideration COMPARABLY EQUIPPED vehicles. <p>The A4 and Passat I mentioned were COMPARABLY EQUIPPED. It's not like the A4 has extra features usually offered on German cars in the $35K price range. It doesn't have Xenon, auto-dimming mirrors, memory seats, yaw control, head airbag, navigation system, a coded ignition key, rain-sensing windshield wipers, flexible service indicator, a 4-year warranty, parking-distance sensor or steering wheel audio controls. The Passat has every "luxury" feature that is offered by the A4. I'm sure whatever additional features get added to the 99.5 A4 will also be offered in the Passat. Anyway, enjoy your extremely overpriced VW. For the rest of you, get the superior BMW 3-series if you're gonna pay Audi A4 prices.

It's the Cadillac Cimmoron of the nineties.

Don't even try to compare your tiny, turbo-lagged 4-banger to BMW's legendary inline-6. The 323i Sport package come with awesome-looking 16in alloys, 10-way adjustable sport seats, legendary M sport suspension, and a multi-function three spoke sport steering wheel. The wheels on the Audi sport package are the ugliest alloys offered on any car. I would glue wheel covers on those seven spoke wheels. No wonder the Audi sport package is dirt cheap. Oh yeah, your tiny, turbo-lagged 4-banger can barely drive two wheels, let alone four.

Thanks for the comments...keep them coming...so insightful.<p>Father Steve

Bob, this is really silly. You have quoted one article to support your assertion that the Passat is based on the A6. This is simply incorrect. If you want to continue in your erroneous belief, fine.<p>As far as your "$5000-$10000" price advantage Passat supposedly has over the A4, how come the base Passat has an MSRP of $21,200 and the base A4 has an MSRP of $23,800? Not to mention that the base A4 comes standard with alloy wheels rather than the chintzy stamped wheel covers you get on the Passat. Seems like the difference is at MOST $2600, not $5000!<p>You can take the other end of the spectrum, the GLX Passat versus the A4 2.8 Quattro. The list prices of these vehicles are less than $1000 difference. Of course, you'll need to add a sunroof, leather, and automatic transmission to the Audi to have it comparably equipped. Still, less than $5000 difference.<p>I rest my case.

Lets see...youre on an Audi board...mostly visited by people who own Audi A4s....and continually telling people that A4 stink..."overpriced VW" "unintended acceleration" ...blah...blah...blah...My question is WHY? What is your purpose?...yes, sometimes people post misinformation here...so what...they are Audi A4 enthusiasts. If you like Passats or 3-Series BMW more...then go visit their forums...<p>Signed, <p>The old guy around here<p>P.S. Yeah..yeah..yeah...free speech<br>

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you wrote<br>:You have quoted one article to support your assertion that the Passat is based on the A6. This is simply incorrect. If you want to continue in your erroneous belief, fine.<p>John, you don't believe the New York Times??? You A4 owners don't trust Car and Driver because your car was not named to the top ten list. Short of Ferdinand Piech calling you and admitting he overcharged you for an A4 because the Passat is cheaper, roomier and rides on the superior A6 chassis, what does it take???<p>Taking that into account, I'm surprised the Passat isn't priced at a slight premium to the A4. Instead the A4 costs $5,000 to $10,000 more, a ridiculous branding strategy by VW if you ask me. Audi cars are Giffin goods, demand increases with price.

Why don't you guys trade your A4s(Passat) in for an Infiniti G20(Sentra), Saab 9-3(Astra), or Cadillac Catera(Omega) and make my job more difficult?

The Minibeemer doesn't despise Audis, and, deep down, he really doesn't think people are as full of sh-- as he claims. Rather, he is possessed of an iconoclastic impulse that derives from a growing infatuation with the very things he professes to detest. As we all grow older, we tend to realize that there is more to life than telling people with whom we disagree very little in the end that they are nonetheless full of sh--. It's a matter of time.

No, Bob, I don't believe the New York Times when they are wrong. They've been wrong before, they are wrong in this case, and trust me, they'll be wrong again.<p>Here is just ONE citation from Edmund's, who gave the Passat a very positive review:<p>"A runaway success in Europe, the new Passat deserves acclaim. Based on a stretched Audi A4 platform and using plenty of Audi parts in its construction, the new Passat looks, feels, smells and drives like a more substantial car than its price tag would lead you to expect."<p>Go to Edmund's web site and check it out for yourself.<p>Odd you had no response to my proof of your erroneous price comparison. Maybe because you know you are wrong.<p>Incidentally, I don't own an A4. My wife does. I own a BMW 323i. I also like the Passat very much. I just like the Audi better, and so did my wife who drove both of them before deciding on the Audi.<p>Lastly, what the hell are you doing on the Audi board? Go post your misinformation elsewhere!<p>

Scott, I didn't assert that the Passat is built on the A6 platform. I asserted what you stated--correctly--that it is based on the A4 platform.<p>It is BOB who seems to have all his "facts" ass-backwards, not me.

John, have you ever considered the fact that the A6 rides on a stretched and upgraded A4 platform? This is indeed the case, do some research. Now for the simple logic part. If A6 platform = stretching + improvement + A4 platform and Passat = stretching + improvement + A4 platform then by the associative property, Passat platform = A6 platform. Think about it. Take as long as you need. You will eventually come to the same conclusion as the New York Times.<p>you wrote incorrectly<br>:Odd you had no response to my proof of your erroneous price comparison. Maybe because you know you are wrong.<p>My original response was that the price difference between a Passat and an A4 can be higher than US$10,000. Again, you may verify that for yourself at Edmund's web site. The two models I used as examples are indeed comparably equipped, because the A4 is missing features we generally associate with $35K German cars. I've listed those features for you in a previous post. The Audi doesn't even have a 4-year warranty, while the VW has a ten year powertrain warranty. As far as the stipped-down models you used as examples, my response, you will recall, was that the Passat should sell at a slight premium since it rides on the improved A6 platform (which has base price starting at $34K). This does not occur because of VW brand management and marketing issues. <p>My argument all along has been to buy the Passat because it's cheaper and better than the A4, and to buy the BMW 3-series if you insist on spending the price of an A4 on a premium car. You obviously agree with me since you drive a 323i and gave your wife the A4.<p>you wrote<br>:Lastly, what the hell are you doing on the Audi board? Go post your misinformation elsewhere<p>Since I drive a Passat V6, a very close cousin of the A4 (You don't even drive a VW product), I have as much right to be here as you do. Again, you should get a clue and stop sharing your ignorance with the world.

Bob, I didn't buy my wife an Audi (where did you get that!) My wife has a very good job and in fact, has a salary substantially higher than mine. She bought her own car. She didn't care for the BMW and wanted Quattro because she dreads driving in winter conditions.<p>But let's get back to your ridiculous new assertion that because the A6 is built on a stretched A4 platform, the Passat is built on the A6 platform, only shortened? Do you really believe the crap you spew?<p>The A4 platform in fact is used on the Jetta and the A3 as well, in modified form. Or would you suggest that they are also based on the A6 platform, only shortened even more?<p>I've read at least a dozen reviews of the Passat, and not a single review stated that the Passat rides on a modified A6 platform. They have all stated what I have--it is built on a modified A4 platform. As did both of the two VW dealers my wife and I visited.<p>And Bob, for your information, I didn't buy a 323i because of any of the reasons you suggest--least of all that I agree with you on any of the posts I've seen here. But that has nothing to do with the present subject.<p>As for my presence on this board, I believe it is for Audi owners and enthusiasts. So I think I qualify to be here. You are neither, quite obviously. Furthermore, from what I've seen of your comments, you are not just critical, but positively antagonistic concerning the A4.<p>You have a right to your opinions, but why do you express them in a forum such as this?<p><br>