I've been hearing a lot of people around my office stating that they keep their foot on the clutch while still the same gear they were on before they had to brake. They do not downshift at all. Only when they need to accelerate again do they throw it back into the appropriate gear. One of them has 90,000 miles on his tranny using this method. Is this method correct and safe for your tranny?<p>I now know that you should not throw your tranny in neutral and brake to a stop (with the foot off the clutch)... (or could I be wrong?)<p>My uncle also taught me how to get into 2nd and up without stepping on the clutch at all. This method requires a lot of practice and gear grinding before you can do it gracefully. I would not do it on my brand new A4 or any other new car. I practiced it on one of my uncle's 87 corolla sr5. He claims that this method saves his clutch. Is this true? <p>

1. Braking with the car in gear and the clutch in as well? Basically, you're just coasting ... not in nuetral, but for all intents and purposes, yes!<p>This is wearing your clutch. For no reason. If you're gonna do this, you might as well throw it into neutral and coast, and let the clutch back out. Which is still a bad idea. And illegal.<p>You should always downshift. Downshifting can shorten stopping distances and lengthen brake life if done properly. It also mitigates brake fade (less heat from less braking).<p>2. NO, you should not brake with the car in neutral (you asked). I just stated that above for purposes of demonstrating clutch wear and how to avoid it.<p>3. Shifting without the clutch WILL save your clutch. But ruin your tranny if you don't do it right. Just use what the wizards at Audi spent years and years developing. Okay? I suppose if you know exactly what RPM to shift at in each gear, then it's okay. But not worth the risk.<p>One important thing, though: you need to use a clutch properly in case you need to drive a DIFFERENT car with a manual transmission. See?<p>Chris Gröos<p>

Chris,<p>Is coasting in neutral really illegal in the US? Does it depend on what state you're in?<p>I also don't understand why coasting in neutral would be bad for your car... Maybe for your brakes, because they will heat up more.<p>Please excuse my ignorance, you can probably tell I haven't been in this country for a long time :)<p>Andrei

Any time the clutch is depressed you are making some sort of bearing do work. I don't know if Audi's have a "throw out bearing" per say but they must have something similar. When you depress the clutch all you are doing is forcing the transmission to seperate from the motor, this is not the normal state. So, if you do this more than "normal" you will wear out the clutch faster than "normal"

This used to be a common FAQ on rec.motorcycles (back in my 1-wheel drive days!); probably still is. The debate was, is it better to sit at a light in neutral, clutch released, or in first, clutch depressed. I prefer to use the latter, in case some moron feels the need to rear-end me at the light. With the car already in gear, I can move out of the way quicker in an emergency. Once I have some cars stopped behind me as a "buffer zone", I'll put it in neutral and let off the clutch.<p>Besides, have you ever heard of anyone having to replace a throwout bearing? Not me. And I have 155k miles of heel-toe, double clutched, engine braking on my original clutch, tranny, and throwout bearing :-)<p>YMMV<br>

I learned long ago in California that coasting with a transmission in neutral is illegal, presumably from a safety standpoint: you don't have full control of your car in an emergency.<p>I don't know if it is illegal in all states.<br>

Well, FWIW, here goes:<br>1. I agree with RobS in that your foot should be off the pedal unless you are shifting. If you want to sit a traffic light with the clutch disengaged and in gear, there is no serious penalty, but I was rear-ended one time at a red light by a guy stopped behind me whose foot slipped off the clutch pedal. My preference is to keep everything in as relaxed a state as possible at all times.<br>2. When braking I use the brakes to do what they were designed to do, and shift to neutral at the last moment. There is no real penalty for shifting to neutral earlier, I just prefer not to do it.<br>3. While the clutch is disengaged (i.e., pedal down) the throwout bearing is wearing. The throwout bearing is designed for intermittent use, not the continuous use that it gets when you sit at idle with the clutch depressed. Again, there is no serious penalty for putting wear on the throwout bearing - I just prefer not to do it.<br>4. Yes, coasting in neutral is illegal in some states. This is a throwback to the days when all American cars had drum brakes all around and tended to fade seriously when they got too hot. That obviously is not a major problem now, but I think it's better to leave the tranny in gear until you are almost stopped.<br>5. Speedshifting (i.e., without the clutch) may be a fun challenge, but it is false economy because you are sacrificing a relatively expensive part (making the gears and synchro mechanism do what they were not designed to do) to save wear and tear that is normal on a relatively cheap part (the clutch) doing what it was designed to do.<br>6. Along the same line, downshifting to use engine braking sounds cool but again is false economy. Here you are sacrificing a very expensive component (the engine) by making it do what it was not designed to do to save a cheap component (the brakes) from doing what it was designed to do.<br>

When you brake, leave the clutch alone until you know whether you are coming to a full stop (in which case shift into neutral), or what speed you are going to continue driving (in which case shift into the appropriate gear for that speed). The only exception would be if the engine begins to sputter (RPM below 500).<p>Don't leave the clutch depressed for long intervals (like at a stoplight). While some modern transmissions may tolerate this better than others, it's important to develop good driving habits that are applicable to all manual transmissions.<p>Shifting without using the clutch is a way to trade a small amount of clutch wear for the possibility of a LARGE amount of transmission damage; it isn't worth it.<p>Also, learn to double-clutch when down-shifting. While unnecessary with modern cars, it will teach your subconscious mind the relationship between RPM and MPH for each gear; that will in turn make your shifting (especially downshifting) smoother.<br>

In lots of years of driving, I have NEVER been in a situation where I needed "right now" power to avoid an accident. Steering, yes. Brakes, yes. I also have a lot of trouble even imagining such a situation, such as when coasting to a light or stop sign. I'm sure they exist, the risk is very minimal, probably much less than other things that people do (and don't attract police attention) such as not signaling lane changes or not using headlights in fairly dark weather or rain.<p>The amount of time needed to put a car into gear is fairly insignificant. Also, if you are coming to a stop and not downshifting (which is generally recommended not to do due to transmission wear), you will be in the wrong gear to have enough power to accelerate significantly anyway. (e.g., being in 4th gear at 15 mph instead of 2nd).

[nt]

Automatic transmissions downshift!<p>Downshifting is NOT bad for a transmission. It is recommended, actually.<p>Don't know where you are getting your information from.<p>As far as not having to be in gear "yet" - better to be safe than sorry, for one thing. And another - the lazier you get with stuff like this, the less attention you're "probably" paying to vehicle dynamics and important stuff like that. Driver involvment IS necessary. IMHO, of course.

At a minimum, downshifting is "bad" for a transmission in the same way that running an engine is bad for the engine. It obviously puts more wear on the parts. If a person downshifts once for every upshift, then the transmission will wear out in about half the time as it would if downshifting is never done. Same for the clutch. (This obviously assumes a few things, like equal wear on parts downshifting as upshifting. In reality, downshifing can easily cause more wear due to going to higher rpms after shifting. Rev matching will cure this, however. But I'm the only one I've ever personally seen actually do this in normal driving).<p>And, yes, automatic transmissions downshift. There is no choice. They have to in order for the engine to remain running properly since they are always in gear, unlike a manual that can be taken out of gear. (Yes, I know about the torque converter allowing slippage).<p>In all the arguments I've seen on downshifting (not just here - but other sites/groups, "Click and Clack" brothers, etc.), the consesus is always that NOT doing it is better for the car overall. Dowinshifting is obviously better for performance, maybe makes the driver feel better, etc. Done properly, or even close to properly, it won't mean an early death for the transmission.<p>Have you ever been in a situation where you truly needed the instant power being in "proper" gear provided to avoid an accident? (Not counting situations where it is easier to zip around slow cars, etc. - these aren't accident situations).

I have 135,000 miles and the original clutch on my 1990 Passat and I always brake when in neutral. So what is the big deal?

It's the propensity of the wheels to lock-up under braking with the subsequent loss of steering ability that make coasting in neutral illegal. Not the added time for shifting into gear in an emergency.<br>The latter, as you have stated correctly, is insignificant time-wise.<p>Igor Kessel<br>Two turbo quattros

yo

I WAS rear-ended, driving a Mazda 626. I had always been in the habit of braking and sitting at a stop with the car in the appropriate gear to allow me to take off if I needed. I DO NOT recommend down shifting the way most people thing of it. When coming to a stop, I cisengage the clutch and say drop the car from 4th or 5th to 2nd or 3rd, but do not engage the clutch. I would much rather put the wear and tear on my brakes, which are relatively inexpensive to replace, than my clutch, which is pricey. <br>Back to being rear-ended, I was sitting at a red light, noone in front and noone in back, galncing at my rear view mrror as usual, when I heard, and then saw a old piece of sh** Ford pickup coming towards me, brakes locked up. Must have been going 45MPH before he locked his brakes. I immediately popped the clutch and gunned it. He still nailed me pretty hard, but I am convinced that, had I been sitting in neutral, the impact would have been much more severe. The car had $3500 worth of damage as it was. Taking off, for the one second, I think created a bit of a cushion, as my speed came closer to matching his. Sitting still, he would have hit me like a brick wall.<br>To end the story, the guy fled the scene, and was caught a few hours later at home. I got his plate numbers. :-)<p>Keep in in gear, it may save your life. Better save you life than save your throw out bearing. Downshifting does make you feel like boy-racer, but is often unnecessary, especially when coming to a complete stop at a stop sign.

Used to be illegal in Connecticut to drive barefooted. Lots of folks in beach towns would get busted for this. Someone said that law, at least, had been overturned.<br>

The answer, of course, is that they won't lock up, coasting or not. So, it looks like the law is intended solely for pre-ABS and non-ABS equipped cars. If this is the case, there is no safety problem with coasting. (By coasting, I mean coasting in neutal up to a light or stop sign, etc., not coasting for miles down a steep hill).