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I am this close to purchasing the h&r lowering springs for my RS4 but I have been trying to find the spring rates for these as compared to stock. Not muchinfo out there, maybe you can help? I want the car a little stiffer as I do track days (3-4/year) but not so hard that it looses it's nice balace between street and track. I am also toying with the idea of coilovers but I do not think that is the route for this car as that may over do the stiffness and make the daily drive unbearable. It already has hotchkis antiroll bars which I found essential on the track but a little more roll stiffness and more immeadiate turn in would be welcome. Any comments from your experience or others who have gone this route?
Thanks,
Kris.

I am this close to purchasing the h&r lowering springs for my RS4 but I have been trying to find the spring rates for these as compared to stock. Not muchinfo out there, maybe you can help? I want the car a little stiffer as I do track days (3-4/year) but not so hard that it looses it's nice balace between street and track. I am also toying with the idea of coilovers but I do not think that is the route for this car as that may over do the stiffness and make the daily drive unbearable. It already has hotchkis antiroll bars which I found essential on the track but a little more roll stiffness and more immeadiate turn in would be welcome. Any comments from your experience or others who have gone this route?
Thanks,
Kris.

A lot of people suggest the Stasis MS' or Stasis SL's due to their ability to provide great track performance but maintain good ride quality for the street. Nobody I've talked to has said these coilovers are unbearable on the street.

Plus, if you put different springs on your car, the DRC system will have to be recharged at the dealer which will cost an arm and a leg. You're better off taking the money you would have spent on the springs and recharge and put that towards good coilovers.

Just my $.02

I have them, and I like them. Had them installed during the DRC service action.
ride is a bit firmer, but not really noticeable, smooth, not harsh
lowering F 1/2" to 26", R 3/8" to 25 5/8
I also have H&R 8 mm spacers at each corner
crappy cell phone pic thru my office window

I have them, and I like them. Had them installed during the DRC service action.
ride is a bit firmer, but not really noticeable, smooth, not harsh
lowering F 1/2" to 26", R 3/8" to 25 5/8
I also have H&R 8 mm spacers at each corner
Arthur, your car sits just about perfect. I like the amount of lowering you got from these springs. ;)
Do you have the stock tire sizes? I assume you have no rubbing issues with those spacers?

Yeah that looks perfect! I need to get mine lowered....What state do you live in, that you don't need a front tag? I'm thinking of taking my tag off too..But I live in Maryland.

Arthur, your car sits just about perfect. I like the amount of lowering you got from these springs. ;)
Do you have the stock tire sizes? I assume you have no rubbing issues with those spacers?

stock size tires and no rubbing
yep, imo, just about the prefect stance...

no front plate required in PA, although I have a euro set-up I throw on for a change

before

I love it! We should meet up sometime...what part of PA? I'm sure us 3 new RS4's in Maryland would enjoy the drive up!

I love it! We should meet up sometime...what part of PA? I'm sure us 3 new RS4's in Maryland would enjoy the drive up!

20 minutes north of Morgantown WV
we have some amazing driving roads around here, close to Ohiopyle State park
you'ld probably come in on I68 then Rt 40

a trip to Fallingwater might be nice

Thanks guys!!!! That really helps.
The dealer charges for labour are really not that different, 10 hours for the Re&Re on the H&R springs and 6Hrs on fitting coilovers and at $125 an hour that's only $500difference. A new coilover setup is 2500-3500 plus labour so the costs are really not comparable. While I like track days the reality is 99% of the time I am on the street so hard to justify and I realize this will never be a pure track car.
Arthur,
Car looks great, didn't know you had the lowering kit and spacers.
I know you have an engineering background, do you consider spacers safe for the track? Obviously you think they are OK for the street but with added stresses on track are they OK to use? I assume it's just additional stress on the wheel bearings? Anything else?

As far as larger tire sizes, anybody run those?
Any real benefit on track?

Thanks,
Kris

good economic analysis...for my use H&R makes sense and fits my needs/desires
another factor is some popular coil overs need rebuilt, correct?
so car is out of service and more $$$

the dealer book rate for R&R of the DRC is like 6 hours
my springs were <$300 delivered
~$1000 total (I had mine done during the DRC service so no cost other than the springs)

if I was tracking the car I'd get another set of wheels/tires (I would not want to chew up my street tires) and since I would be changing them anyways, I'd remove the spacers when on track

if you did use them though, I see no issues as long as the lug torque is checked prior to use (good practice with or without)


Thanks guys!!!! That really helps.
The dealer charges for labour are really not that different, 10 hours for the Re&Re on the H&R springs and 6Hrs on fitting coilovers and at $125 an hour that's only $500difference. A new coilover setup is 2500-3500 plus labour so the costs are really not comparable. While I like track days the reality is 99% of the time I am on the street so hard to justify and I realize this will never be a pure track car.

Arthur,
Car looks great, didn't know you had the lowering kit and spacers.
I know you have an engineering background, do you consider spacers safe for the track? Obviously you think they are OK for the street but with added stresses on track are they OK to use? I assume it's just additional stress on the wheel bearings? Anything else?

As far as larger tire sizes, anybody run those?
Any real benefit on track?

Thanks,
Kris

Thanks,

I am looking for a new summer set of tires as we speak.
Looking for any input on the following
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Bridgestone S04 pole position
Potenza RE-11

The super sport is a new tire to replace the PS2. According to tire rack great grip but also better than avg. tread wear (300 vs. 180 for the RE-11). The RE-11 is the only extreme summer tire in this size for what that's worth. Cost is less important but the Michelin is just over $300...

Still find it hard to justify three wheel tire combos...I think it will be one summer and one winter till the lottery comes through. These will have to do double duty on track and off.

^

Michelin Super Sports all the way. I have them myself and absolutely love them. Excellent grip wet or dry, lighter than RE-11's, and good tread wear.

^

Michelin Super Sports all the way. I have them myself and absolutely love them. Excellent grip wet or dry, lighter than RE-11's, and good tread wear.

wheels from the stone age are lighter than RE11s though...:D

RE11 are 28 lbs per tire in 255.35.19 RS4 fitment
Michelin PS2 are 25
Michelin Super Sports are 24

wheels from the stone age are lighter than RE11s though...:D


I don't get what you're trying to say.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

It's a joke karsty. RE11s are just about the heaviest tires out there. Saying a tire is lighter than an RE11 does not put it on a short list.

I was joking that this would be lighter.
http://carlsagansdanceparty.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/wheel.jpg

^
I don't know where my head was when I replied to your stone age comment. LOL. I get it.

If you want performance, you would be better with the RE11. It is a softer tire with a treadwear rating of 180 (for what that is worth), The PS2's are 220 and the super sports are like hockey pucks with a treadwear rating of 300. Yes they will last forever but you might as well drive an SUV. I have autocrossed the RE11's for 2 years and they run rings around the PS2's that came with the car. The RE11's have stiffer sidewalls which makes them heavier but they flex less under hard cornering. I doubt if anyone will notice a difference of 3 or 4 pounds per tire which is the weight of a quarter tank of gas. The RE11 is great in the wet too.

If you want performance, you would be better with the RE11. It is a softer tire with a treadwear rating of 180 (for what that is worth), The PS2's are 220 and the super sports are like hockey pucks with a treadwear rating of 300. Yes they will last forever but you might as well drive an SUV. I have autocrossed the RE11's for 2 years and they run rings around the PS2's that came with the car. The RE11's have stiffer sidewalls which makes them heavier but they flex less under hard cornering. I doubt if anyone will notice a difference of 3 or 4 pounds per tire which is the weight of a quarter tank of gas. The RE11 is great in the wet too.
Exactly my feelings too. I've had the RE11's for the past 5k miles and they cannot be beat. Surprisingly, this tire rides pretty nicely too. I maintain my cold pressures at 38F & 35R.

If you want performance, you would be better with the RE11. It is a softer tire with a treadwear rating of 180 (for what that is worth), The PS2's are 220 and the super sports are like hockey pucks with a treadwear rating of 300. Yes they will last forever but you might as well drive an SUV. I have autocrossed the RE11's for 2 years and they run rings around the PS2's that came with the car. The RE11's have stiffer sidewalls which makes them heavier but they flex less under hard cornering. I doubt if anyone will notice a difference of 3 or 4 pounds per tire which is the weight of a quarter tank of gas. The RE11 is great in the wet too.

Have you read the reviews on the Super Sports? They are very good tires for dry and wet performance. Maybe not as good as the RE-11's for dry performance but they are close and will last much longer. The tread wear argument is pointless as each manufacturer rates there tires differently, as you probably know. So to call the Super Sports hockey pucks due to their tread wear rating of 300 is misleading. The Super Sports are also a better tire than the PS2 in all categories. Lastly, regarding the weight comment, you are comparing the weight difference of the two tires to a static weight of gas in a tank, but in reality that 3-4 pounds of tire is much more as a dynamic weight rotating. So you would notice a difference on the track with better acceleration, steering response and steering feel using the Super Sports vs the RE-11's.

Kringle, it all depends on what you want. If it's all out dry performance, get the RE-11's or something even stickier. If you want very close dry performance but very good wet performance along with tire longevity, then get the Super Sports. If you're in fact using your summer tires for double duty I don't think you'll be dissapointed with the Super Sports IMO.

Have you read the reviews on the Super Sports? They are very good tires for dry and wet performance. Maybe not as good as the RE-11's for dry performance but they are close and will last much longer. The tread wear argument is pointless as each manufacturer rates there tires differently, as you probably know. So to call the Super Sports hockey pucks due to their tread wear rating of 300 is misleading. The Super Sports are also a better tire than the PS2 in all categories. Lastly, regarding the weight comment, you are comparing the weight difference of the two tires to a static weight of gas in a tank, but in reality that 3-4 pounds of tire is much more as a dynamic weight rotating. So you would notice a difference on the track with better acceleration, steering response and steering feel using the Super Sports vs the RE-11's.

Kringle, it all depends on what you want. If it's all out dry performance, get the RE-11's or something even stickier. If you want very close dry performance but very good wet performance along with tire longevity, then get the Super Sports. If you're in fact using your summer tires for double duty I don't think you'll be dissapointed with the Super Sports IMO.
When you state the Supersports are close, it may be "close" as in the number of seconds between first and last place in a race. I find it hard to believe the Supersports are faster than the PS2's. What is your reference? I have raced the PS2's and the RE11's and they are not close. Without back to back comparisons, this "armchair quarterbacking" is pretty lame. As limited as the treadwear ratings may be, the difference between 300 and 180 (for the RE11's) is HUGE with regards to performance. You lighten your car 16 pounds with the Supersports and I guarantee you won't have much fun racing against a car with RE11's. However if you haven't raced then you may not realize how big the difference can be. Safety is also an issue in a high performance car. Good tires can make the difference between taking the corner al little too fast, and a repair bill that is a lot more expensive than replacing your tires every 2 instead of 3 years. Buying a car like an RS4 and then putting on a 300 tread wear tire is like like playing soccer in Oxford shoes.

I withdraw my last post. I read the reviews on the Super Sport and it does seem impressive.

I withdraw my last post. I read the reviews on the Super Sport and it does seem impressive.
Where was this review you read? TIA

I Googled a few reviews. These 2 are related to the same industry sponsored event but do suggest the Super Sport is better that the PS2 using some interesting technology. They combine different kinds of rubber on the inside and outside to get the best dry and wet traction. This may explain the confusing tread wear rating. Because my experience is limited to the PS2's I have to defer to the reviewer until I find a non-industry sponsored comparison to other tires I am familiar with such as the RE11. http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1101_testing_the_michelin_pilot_super_sport/viewall.html
http://www.porscheblogs.co.uk/tested-the-new-michelin-pilot-super-sport/

well said Karsty. Lots of people underestimate the benefits of reducing rotating mass. I can say that when I put LW rotors on my last car (shaved 20lbs of rotating mass from the front) the difference was instantly noticeable. Cutting rotating weight from tires is even more effective than rotor weight as the weight is even farther from the centre of the hub.

Reducing 16 lbs of rotating mass is apparently more like slashing 160 lbs of sprung weight as performance and feel goes.

(it's one of those internet rules so take it for what it's worth lol),

well said Karsty. Lots of people underestimate the benefits of reducing rotating mass. I can say that when I put LW rotors on my last car (shaved 20lbs of rotating mass from the front) the difference was instantly noticeable. Cutting rotating weight from tires is even more effective than rotor weight as the weight is even farther from the centre of the hub.

Reducing 16 lbs of rotating mass is apparently more like slashing 160 lbs of sprung weight as performance and feel goes.

(it's one of those internet rules so take it for what it's worth lol),
Personally, from an autocross point of view, I would take a sticky tire over a lighter tire any day. I race both stock rims with RE11's that weigh 55 pounds per wheel, and then ADV.1 rims with Hoosier tires that are 45 pounds per wheel. The wheels are the same width and diameter. I can't say I notice much difference in acceleration, steering response or feel. What I notice is a big loss of grip and lower cornering speeds on sweepers with RE11's compared to the Hoosiers. Speed on a sweeper is not related to acceleration or steering input because, like on a skid pad, you are at a fairly static speed and steering input. Turn in and acceleration in between turns would theoretically benefit from lighter wheels but it would be interesting to see some objective testing to see how much of a difference wheel weight makes in a heavy, high powered car like an RS4. You might accelerate a little quicker, but because of constantly turning, better grip is more likely to lead to a higher overall speed and lower times. Often, the cars with the widest (and heavier) tires win the race because they have more grip.