View Full Version : Long Comparison for the Undecided Buyer


no1korean
09-06-2011, 10:30 AM
Thanks to everyone who posted their own reviews or otherwise helped me with my decision. I agonized for over a month with my choice, and I read every expert or consumer review out there multiple times. In the end, I went with the A6, but it was a close call. This comprehensive review is for all the people like me who are having trouble pulling the trigger.

Since all reviews are inherently subjective, I thought a little background would help. My previous cars were a 2005 BMW 745i and a 2007 Audi A6. At this stage in life, comfort is far more important than sport, especially with a family on the way. But I still like to cut loose on the weekends and on long drives.

I test drove every car in the segment more than once, but it came down to the three Germans. PM me if you want my thoughts on the M37 or XF.

EXTERIOR
No one can tell you how you’ll react to the look of a car, but I thought the E350 had the best exterior. The angular lines had a beefy, muscular look that contrasts with the curves of the 535i and A6. The metal accents are also tastefully done and break up the paint lines. The 535i looks better than the Bangled one, but otherwise bland. I thought the A6 was the least impressive to look at. It felt “Japanese” – trendy, but not classic. The LEDs look great at night but “squinty” and awkward in the day, and the deep, plunging grill looks awful if you have to put a license plate in the front. Put in another way, IMO, the A6 looks the best to people looking to move up-market, but the E350 looks the best to people who can already afford luxury.

INTERIOR QUALITY
The A6 dashboard really shines here. The curved beltline is beautiful, all the knobs and switches are metal, and the resolution of all the displays (including the temp) is very clear. No cheap materials to be found, though I wish the wood panels were metal-trimmed like the old A6. I thought I wouldn’t like the motorized display but it is tastefully done, and high enough that at least your peripheral vision stays on the road at all times. The instrument panel display is also extremely useful and can actually show you lists instead of single lines. However, the doors on the A6 were the worst. I wish the triangular panels extended all the way back since, at least in black, there’s nothing to break up the lines between the upper and lower door sections. Also, the leather quality seemed a little poor. Felt more like leatherette than that soft, smooth leather found in the others.

The E350 was also nice and elegant, and the material quality I think was better than the others (aluminum switches, very nice wood panels, soft leather). Again, this is a classic look and feel, but not trendy or "cool." But the nav display was too small, and the instrument panel stupidly laid out, with a useless big clock and a pixilated info display.

The 535i was the worst feeling. Material quality was not up to par – plastic switchgear and overly shiny wood. I really didn’t care for the nav display, poor resolution and its position makes the entire dash bigger than it needs to be. Overall, very boring and needs some metal accents to spice it up.

INTERIOR COMFORT
The 535i seats cannot be beat. The articulated upper backrest and thigh extensions are things that are hard to live without. I had them in my 745i, and it really does make an enormous difference; you might not notice on a short test drive, but drive it for more than 30 minutes and you'll know. The ventilation is also much stronger than in the others and can actually cool your back rather than just make you sweat less. The massage seats, just like in my old 745i, are too distracting to use, even if you know they’ll help with long road trips. But these seats are so terrific that I still think about cancelling my A6 order. Very quiet too – hushed road and wind noise. On the down side, the cockpit felt cramped, the beltline was too high, and my right knee was pressed right against the center tunnel. There is also no legroom in the backseat – I am 5’8” and my knees were pressed against the front seat, even adjusted for my height.

The E350 seats are hard, and the dealer says this is a common complaint among owners. The massage function uses rollers rather than air pockets, so it felt very relaxing and useful. The steering wheel was off-center to the right for me, which made driving it strange. But the E350 is quiet like a bank vault and very smooth and comfortable.

The A6 seats should be a lot better. No matter how I adjusted them, my upper back and head felt unsupported (like my old A6), and I could tell that my neck and shoulder muscles would be strained on long road trips. Also, the center armrest was too high, but I am short so it could be me. Roomy cabin though, with plenty of room front and back. Also, the back seats were angled better and not too low to the floor. But noticeably more road noise than the others – at highway speed, I had to speak a little bit louder than my normal conversation voice. Not loud, just not silent. You would only notice it if you drove with the radio turned off, which I do often.

DRIVING FEEL
By a huge margin, the A6 takes this one. I know others have commented how light it feels, but it really does feel like a smaller car. I felt extremely confident taking sharp corners at speed, and I'm usually pretty careful with a new car. Very little body roll, and I drove one without a sport suspension. Because the car felt light, the light steering didn’t bother me at all and made for quick inputs and adjustments. Biggest difference between the A6 and others is immediate power – no hesitation, just power the moment you step on the pedal. Also, it’s very easy to drive the car smoothly – no jerky movements or sudden stops. Light pedals, but linear and predictable.

The E350 lacks power big time. No hesitation, but simply not enough grunt to compared to other. Not too much body roll, but just not a fun car to drive. Definitely made for luxo-cruising – smooth and isolated ride.

The 535i was awful, period. I took curves at the speed limit just because I didn’t trust the car. A lot a body roll (no sport suspension) and zero feeling from the steering. I couldn’t tell if I was actually turning with the curves or understeering badly. Also, the pedals are very hard to modulate. Brake pedal travel is not linear so it grabs suddenly. Acceleration is worse – you press it a little, literally nothing happens… press it just a little more, your head snaps back. I test drove the 535i three times at different dealers because I thought there was no way it could be that bad, but it was awful all three times. Maybe another driver could do better, but it was beyond me.

FEATURES
This is where the BMW shined, especially if you have a family. Rear side seat shades and soft-close doors are fantastic if you have a baby (slamming doors shut easily wakes a baby up). Also, the no-touch trunk opening on the 2012s seem great if you go to Home Depot or Target a lot. I carried my sister’s kids in both my old 745i and A6 and these features really do make a huge difference. Other thing that stood out in the BMW was the ease of voice command, which recognizes natural speaking and lets you enter entire commands or addresses in one statement. However, I’d skip the top-down cameras which just confused me. There is also no spare tire, but the other two have big donuts so it’s kind of a wash. And iDrive is still confusing, with the hard buttons so small and right together than I had to keep looking to see which one to press.

As noted, the E350 nav screen is small, but the response was very snappy. No waiting between entries and it reads an iPod or USB stick without delay. No on-the-go destination entry, which is too big brother. Also, the Bluetooth connection doesn’t automatically access your phonebook, so either you store your numbers in the car or use the phone display to find contacts. Not impressed with the panoramic roof either, since it does actually extend over the rear passengers heads.

For me, the A6 didn’t have all the features I wanted. The HUD was nice, but not entirely useful without audio information. Google maps was slow to render, and I think the hard drive POI and Google search should somehow be integrated – i.e. no arrow to show whether a Google result will be along my route. Also, the MMI interface was a bit slower to response and the voice command was completely frustrating to use. Why no power trunk or sunshades I can’t understand, especially in this segment. The trajectory lines in the back-up camera were great and made parallel parking far easy than in the others.

AUDIO
I’m not paying $5,900 for the B&O, and I didn’t think it was all that great anyhow. Definitely a fuller soundstage and clearer sound, i.e. you can hear every instrument, even a light cymbal or each individual violin, like you are in a concert hall. But, IMO, this only matters for classical music, and you’ll probably need uncompressed files to hear the difference. The Bose system was also clear and full, but had weak bass. Even with the sound focus set to the front (where the woofers are located), I never got punchy bass. Also, mp3 sounded pretty awful on the Bose system (I encode at 320 kbps). I think this system is worse than the Bose in the C6 A6.

The E350 HK system was pretty bad. There was a strange background fuzzy noise with the bass, and the highs sounded very harsh. You can't turn the volume up too high since the fuzz and sharp highs hurts the ears. No album art - I know, not that important, but its nice to have.

The 535i had the best bass – punchy and shakes the car without even rattling or sounding loose. But it was also the most “muddy” sounding, with no differentiation between instruments. Also, very narrow soundstage – you can tell exactly from which speaker a sound is coming from. But for bass-heavy R&B, hip-hop and pop that most listen to, this was probably the best system.

CONCLUSION
I ordered an ice silver/black A6 with prestige, driver’s assistance and cold weather. I really hoped there would be one somewhere in the US, but I ended up having to order it for a December delivery. Got about 3% under MSRP. Didn't think the innovation package was worth it, especially after the advice I got from this forum.

It was a really close tie with the BMW. I honestly think the 535i is a more practical car, with greater comfort and family-friendly options. And I could get it for almost 6% below MSRP, which makes the price very close to the A6. But I couldn’t get past the terrible driving feel. However, if my Audi delivery date gets delay anymore than it already has (I was first told late October), I probably will cancel the A6 and go with a 535i (8 week guarantee).

Anyways, thanks again to all who helped.

BConly
09-06-2011, 10:39 AM
You made the right choice. Re: exterior - it will grow and grow on you... I loved the exterior of mine before I pulled the trigger and I still like it more and more every time I see it ;)

halfcraft
09-06-2011, 02:06 PM
your was delayed from late oct?
my prestige a6 ibis white was slated for oct.

the problem is, my sales person does not like to give me any info and i keep calling him for updates.
he says its still on track.

TIME89
09-06-2011, 06:30 PM
Great review! Everything right on the money!
Too bad my mom not with us anymore - I should ask her if I have tween brother...
I test drive all of them and if I had to choose today - 3.0T A6 P+ will be my choice.
Thank You for your time to write great review - one of the best that I read here.

no1korean
09-06-2011, 06:33 PM
About the October delivery - I put my order in two weeks ago. My dealer told me they had a car about to go into production, but that I could still change the configuration. The expected delivery was October 23, so I jumped on it. But I could never get an update or any information the entire two weeks. Last Friday, my dealer called to say that the car was no longer available and that I would have to place a new order. The expected delivery date is December, and from what I've been reading on this forum, this might be too optimistic.

This experience really upset me. I could have placed an order for a 2012 535i and got it in mid-October. They just started the 2012 production line last week, so anyone who pre-ordered would have had a first week build. However, putting in an order now would be a late November-early December delivery. I almost jumped because I felt shafted by Audi, but I had already negotiated a deal and gave my deposit, and the expected delivery is now only a couple weeks difference. I'm sticking with the A6, but I wish the 535i drove better so I could switch just out of spite.

This leads to another important comparison - customer service. As I mentioned, I have owed both a 745i and an A6. Also, I have moved several times because of work, so I have been to BMW service in two states and Audi service in three states.

As most have noted here, BMW customer service is far and away better than Audi. It is not difficult at all to get a weekend appointment time at BMW, and they have always given me a BMW loaner. Not just stripped down 3-series loaners - I was given X5s and 5-series (sometimes a 3-series also, but they at least try to give you something comparable). Also, the two BMW waiting areas were really nice - not just drip coffee and dunkin donuts, but actual cafes and sofas.

True BMW story - one time my passenger side door would not unlock at all. I took it in for service in Friday afternoon, and the technician thought he could have it done by the end of the day. However, the problem was bigger than he thought, but two technicians and a service advisor stayed until 11:30pm to get it fixed. The service department closed at 7pm, so they stayed long after hours because they knew I needed my car for a weekend trip with my nieces. Most places would have closed and fixed it the next morning.

Compare to Audi. Only one of the three service departments I went to had Audi loaners, and it was a stripped down A4. The other two gave me enterprise rentals, and more than once I was stuck with an Aveo. An $10,000 Chevy Aveo! It also seems that Audi service only keeps the most common parts in stock, so any unusual repair will take far too long. On top of that, the waiting areas of all three were really cheap - drip coffee and granola bars. One place even had hard plastic benches like those in grade school.

Even the Audi salespeople don't seem to know their cars. One saleperson tried to tell me that the A6 had adjustable air suspension. I knew that wasn't true but he was insistent. So I asked him to confirm it with his manager. He came back and told me he confused the A6 with the A7 (same platform), and that the A7 had adjustable air suspension. I again told him that the A7 didn't have it either, and from the look on his face I knew he was lying. He could have just told me he made a mistake, but he decided to lie instead. I did not deal with that person after that.

I never took a car to Mercedes service, but the one near me had a real cafe instead with a chef and barrista. They make omelets, breakfast sandwiches, and espresso for waiting customers free of charge. And they only have Mercedes loaners.

jperryrocks
09-06-2011, 06:56 PM
What packages and options did you want on your a6?

TIME89
09-06-2011, 07:20 PM
Even the Audi salespeople don't seem to know their cars. One saleperson tried to tell me that the A6 had adjustable air suspension. I knew that wasn't true but he was insistent. So I asked him to confirm it with his manager. He came back and told me he confused the A6 with the A7 (same platform), and that the A7 had adjustable air suspension. I again told him that the A7 didn't have it either, and from the look on his face I knew he was lying. He could have just told me he made a mistake, but he decided to lie instead. I did not deal with that person after that.


Every time I stop by my local dealership I meet on of this shmaks.
http://forums.audiworld.com/showpost.php?p=24160769&postcount=1
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2811533

no1korean
09-06-2011, 07:51 PM
I ordered a prestige trim with cold weather and driver assistance.

I think the prestige trim is a necessity if you can afford it. The ventilated seats, though its hard to notice, does keep your back and bum cooler and drying. Even on mild days, I can get a sweaty lower back on leather seats because no air is circulating back there. Also, the advanced key just makes senses to me. Why have keyless start if you have to take the key out to unlock the doors? In my own experience, keyless entry was much more convenient than I thought it would be.

Cold weather is not too expensive and nice if you live in a cold climate. Where I live, the steering wheel can get so cold that its uncomfortable to touch. If you wear winter gloves, its a moot point, but I don't wear gloves. Rear seat heaters is also a must if you have kids in the back.

I struggled between innovation and driver assistance packages. I really wanted to have adaptive cruise - my good friend has it in his A7 and says a godsend in rush hour traffic. The hardest thing will be learning to trust the system. I barely noticed the side assist - during the day, its not bright enough to notice at a glance. If you have to stare at the warning light and then at the mirror, might as well just turn your head. Some kind of audible warning would really have helped.

I couldn't justify playing an extra $3,300 for innovation. As I commented, the HUD was nice but without audio information (probably the most common setting I change) it seems less than useful. I couldn't test the night vision here because it was too warm, but I can't imagine using it because I would have to refocus my field of vision every time I looked down. However, I could see how it could be useful in conjuction with the HUD, by simply relying on the pedestrian warning indicator without ever actually looking down at the display. But, as I said, I couldn't actually use it so I might be missing something. Lastly, I did not like the look of the LED lights. Subjective opinion, but too squinty and techno for me.

I know almost everyone goes with a sport package, but I felt that there was already too much road noise compared to others in the segment (again, not loud, just noticeable). Also, the ride with sports suspension was a bit firm. Not rough like a M37 - I mean firm like it feels exact the way it was intended to be. Still a smooth and "expensive" feeling ride, and perfect for most. I would have got it if it was just me riding in the car, but my fiance vetoed it. She wanted the 535i, so skipping on a sport package was kind of a compromise.

psychodo
09-06-2011, 08:33 PM
About the October delivery - I put my order in two weeks ago. My dealer told me they had a car about to go into production, but that I could still change the configuration. The expected delivery was October 23, so I jumped on it. But I could never get an update or any information the entire two weeks. Last Friday, my dealer called to say that the car was no longer available and that I would have to place a new order. The expected delivery date is December, and from what I've been reading on this forum, this might be too optimistic.

This experience really upset me. I could have placed an order for a 2012 535i and got it in mid-October. They just started the 2012 production line last week, so anyone who pre-ordered would have had a first week build. However, putting in an order now would be a late November-early December delivery. I almost jumped because I felt shafted by Audi, but I had already negotiated a deal and gave my deposit, and the expected delivery is now only a couple weeks difference. I'm sticking with the A6, but I wish the 535i drove better so I could switch just out of spite.

This leads to another important comparison - customer service. As I mentioned, I have owed both a 745i and an A6. Also, I have moved several times because of work, so I have been to BMW service in two states and Audi service in three states.

As most have noted here, BMW customer service is far and away better than Audi. It is not difficult at all to get a weekend appointment time at BMW, and they have always given me a BMW loaner. Not just stripped down 3-series loaners - I was given X5s and 5-series (sometimes a 3-series also, but they at least try to give you something comparable). Also, the two BMW waiting areas were really nice - not just drip coffee and dunkin donuts, but actual cafes and sofas.

True BMW story - one time my passenger side door would not unlock at all. I took it in for service in Friday afternoon, and the technician thought he could have it done by the end of the day. However, the problem was bigger than he thought, but two technicians and a service advisor stayed until 11:30pm to get it fixed. The service department closed at 7pm, so they stayed long after hours because they knew I needed my car for a weekend trip with my nieces. Most places would have closed and fixed it the next morning.

Compare to Audi. Only one of the three service departments I went to had Audi loaners, and it was a stripped down A4. The other two gave me enterprise rentals, and more than once I was stuck with an Aveo. An $10,000 Chevy Aveo! It also seems that Audi service only keeps the most common parts in stock, so any unusual repair will take far too long. On top of that, the waiting areas of all three were really cheap - drip coffee and granola bars. One place even had hard plastic benches like those in grade school.

Even the Audi salespeople don't seem to know their cars. One saleperson tried to tell me that the A6 had adjustable air suspension. I knew that wasn't true but he was insistent. So I asked him to confirm it with his manager. He came back and told me he confused the A6 with the A7 (same platform), and that the A7 had adjustable air suspension. I again told him that the A7 didn't have it either, and from the look on his face I knew he was lying. He could have just told me he made a mistake, but he decided to lie instead. I did not deal with that person after that.

I never took a car to Mercedes service, but the one near me had a real cafe instead with a chef and barrista. They make omelets, breakfast sandwiches, and espresso for waiting customers free of charge. And they only have Mercedes loaners.

Sorry about your difficulties, that stinks.

regarding BMW vs Audi customer service (at least here)audi was/is much better. The salesmen at BMW seemed annoyed that was asking questions and price haggling was a joke. The attitude was "It's a BMW we can sell it all day long at this price" - I was treated better by every other dealership I visited- Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes and even Hyundai. I've not heard complaints regarding servicing at either dealership.
Now that's just here, I've no doubt it's different elsewhere.
hope this all works out for you.
J

antispam
09-06-2011, 08:34 PM
......
I never took a car to Mercedes service, but the one near me had a real cafe instead with a chef and barrista. They make omelets, breakfast sandwiches, and espresso for waiting customers free of charge. And they only have Mercedes loaners.

Yup, the dealership that I bought my Mercedes had a real cafe (MB of Tampa Bay). Good experience.

Blackz06
09-06-2011, 09:42 PM
Nice review, thanks for your input. I shopped the 5er and must say I felt the same way. As much as the BMW's are hyped by a few of my friends, must say I was very underwhelmed with how it drove.

My local Audi dealer seems to be comparable to others. Not much comfort for customers waiting for their vehicles, even the wife was a little disappointed. She just loves taking her car into Lexus. She must go there at least once a month. She just takes her car in for a quick wash, and while it's getting cleaned they have complimentary mani/pedis for waiting customers.

K91109
09-07-2011, 03:08 AM
But noticeably more road noise than the others – at highway speed, I had to speak a little bit louder than my normal conversation voice. Not loud, just not silent. You would only notice it if you drove with the radio turned off, which I do often.



What about wind noise between the Audi and others?

What tire size were on the Audi vs other cars you tested? If you experienced only road noise (and not wind noise), then it is mostly caused by the tire size/brand

no1korean
09-07-2011, 06:10 AM
I did not notice any wind noise in the A6 at all, even at 75 mph. At least once during a test drive, I turn everything off (including the AC) and just listen, so the Audi engineers did a great job in this regard. However, I barely heard any wind noise in the 535i or the E350 either.

I test drove both an A6 without a sport package and the regular 18" AS (Continentals, I believe) and one with the 19" sport package. Even without sport tires, there was a noticeable amount of road noise at highway speed - a steady, droning hum. I also felt that more outside noises penetrated the cabin than the others. Just to clarify, the noise in the A6 is not loud or annoying at all. If you always have the radio on, you will likely not even notice it. I noticed it because I had the radio off and was constantly talking with the dealer, and I had to raise my voice just a little. And the sound deadening is still better than entry-level cars. However, in this price segment, I think cars should have more sound isolation. The 535i and E350 are just bank-vault silent.

IMO, if you are moving upmarket from an A4 or 3-series, you will think the road noise is controlled. But if you're comparing to other luxury cars (like my 745i), the amount of noise coming into the cabin is surprising.

K91109
09-07-2011, 06:33 AM
Thanks for the info. Was the road noise comparable to the M37?

I see you're coming from a 745i. My current daily driver is a 2005 Cadillac STS which Iam planning to replace with either the E350 or the A6.

In my 911 with 12k miles on the tires, road noise is so bad that at 70+ mph you cannot have any conversation whatsoever!

TIME89
09-07-2011, 07:52 AM
IMO, if you are moving upmarket from an A4 or 3-series, you will think the road noise is controlled. But if you're comparing to other luxury cars (like my 745i), the amount of noise coming into the cabin is surprising.

Interesting, because during my test drive, SA show me how Audi door seal work against "scratched" door frame. If you open door on A6 and look on place where rubber seal meet metal you will see that metal has "scratches", for better contact with seal.

no1korean
09-07-2011, 12:38 PM
The M37 I test drove had 20" sport tires, so comparing the road noise with the A6 is impossible. I did notice a bit of wind noise coming from the side mirrors though. Also, a bit of engine noise comes into the cabin - not the sweet, sonorous growl of hard acceleration, but a feint, click-click "mechanical" sound. Again, I turn off everything during a test drive, and I'm probably a bit sensitive about noise since I drive long distances for work. So, the noise will not likely distract most people, especially with the radio on (which sounds much better than the Germans - even, IMO, the B&O because of stronger bass).

jperryrocks
09-08-2011, 05:46 AM
what color combo did you want?

teddyoh
09-08-2011, 10:25 AM
no1korean:

Really sucks about your order. Obviously, you got bad info from the dealer, who didn't know what he was doing. Do you really have to custom order at this point though? There seems to be pretty good inventory at the Audi dealers in my region (SW Ohio), and you could probably find a pretty close model to your wants - and save a few bucks by taking it off the lot.

I also wanted to make a comment about your comparison to the BMW and the MB competition.

There are about 20 threads on here that make these comparisons, not to mention EVERY printed review of the C7. While this is good, I would worry about buying a car based on a checklist comparison between 3 competitors. When you're dropping $50k plus on a car, you really have to love it. I think if you are that close, there will always be some buyer's remorse. Maybe that's why you read so many posts on here from former owners of BMW Audi and MB who have owned several of each brand. They end up bouncing around because they are never truly satisfied.

I may be in the minority here, but the first time I saw the C7 when it was announced in 2010 - I fell in love. The more I read about it, I knew I had to have it. I tend to trust expert reviews and driving info, because they push a car in ways that I cannot. They also have much greater experience in driving different types of cars. That's why I made a preorder before even driving it.

If you are that conflicted, just wait! You don't have to buy it now. Drive them again. Drive different configurations. Something will grow on you, and the choice will become obvious.

TIME89
09-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Very good point, teddyoh!
When I very close to make final decision on my next car (including interior and exterior color) all my family go down to dealership.
Last time, they day we order car, we changed car color, because we saw color on the lot, that we miss last time.
Wife and I drive car and change few times seat to make sure we liked.

kdt
09-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Hi,
First off, I would like to say that this was one of the most helpful reviews I have seen regarding the new A6 vs the competition. Great job, and thanks for the input.

Would you mind posting your thoughts on the M37 and XF as well?
I am in the market, and would like to know what you thought after a couple of test drives of each.

Thanks.

SpectreRX
09-08-2011, 04:11 PM
Great review!

The comments about the quality of service were interesting. It must vary a lot based on location.

In my area, the closest BMW dealership has "okay" service. Generally they reserve the BMW loaners for customers who bought cars from them - everyone else goes to Enterprise rental. The waiting area is okay, but nothing special.

I haven't tried Audi yet, but I suppose I will if when I pull the trigger on the A6.

Lexus service is unbelievable and I will miss it (I wonder if they'll work on an Audi). They are open 365 days a year, generally 6am to 11pm. You drive up, they meet you at the door, take the car, and send you inside to the consultant. Five minutes later, you're driving off in your Lexus loaner. For service under and hour, they have two waiting rooms -- coffee, sodas, water, donuts, fruit, ice cream, etc. A few massage chairs and a business area.

psychodo
09-08-2011, 05:05 PM
Hi,
First off, I would like to say that this was one of the most helpful reviews I have seen regarding the new A6 vs the competition. Great job, and thanks for the input.

Would you mind posting your thoughts on the M37 and XF as well?
I am in the market, and would like to know what you thought after a couple of test drives of each.

Thanks.

@no1korean
I'm also curious about your take on the M37. I enjoyed reading your review on the other cars.

jetinder
09-08-2011, 09:15 PM
One of the things that Audi is working on in the coming years is "The Audi Experience". I think it will be similar (but not the same - for legal purposes no doubt ) to some of things that you mentioned about Lexus.

That will help a lot to improve the image of the brand as often, it's the aftersales support that lets the brand down.

The G Man
09-09-2011, 04:25 AM
Audi's customer service is improving, but thats not saying much considering how bad they were. At the same time, Lexus is cutting back on their customer service, which I think its a big mistake.

EF99
09-10-2011, 01:07 PM
Hi,
Would you mind posting your thoughts on the M37 and XF as well?
I am in the market, and would like to know what you thought after a couple of test drives of each.
Thanks.

As we await no1korean's reviews of the M37 and Jag XF, a couple things to keep in mind: the new 2012 XF's are just hitting dealers (w/ interior and exterior changes) so no1korean probably drove the 2011. On the M37, no1korean drove the M37 with sport package. Be sure to drive the non-sport M37 as well (which most reviewers (myself included) liked better than the M37 sport, overall). Insideline.com reviewed the sport and non-sport M37 if you want some reading in the interim.

scottphillip
09-11-2011, 04:30 AM
I recently looked at the Hyundai Genesis R Spec and the Buick LaCrosse Touring. Obviously these cars are quite different from my 7 series or the A6, but each has some good unique aspects.

The Buick, loaded at $39,000 has a heads-up display that displays speed and also the information from XM. The ride is excellent with its 19" wheels. The only things missing are a posh cabin and a powerful engine.

The Hyundai's interior is quite nice if a bit dated, and the 429 hp V8 and 8 speed transmission are very smooth. The Genesis has the interior volume of my 750i. The ride is a bit unsettled, and the comfort is average. The Genesis is most impressive if you haven't driven an Audi or BMW. There's just a bit of refinement missing. At $47,000, fully loaded before discounts, I think it's a great bargain. The Hyundai also enjoys good resale and reliability. One advantage of the dated design is good visibility.

I'd also consider a Jaguar XF or S60. :)

psychodo
09-11-2011, 04:53 AM
The Hyundai's interior is quite nice if a bit dated, and the 429 hp V8 and 8 speed transmission are very smooth. The Genesis has the interior volume of my 750i. The ride is a bit unsettled, and the comfort is average. The Genesis is most impressive if you haven't driven an Audi or BMW. There's just a bit of refinement missing. At $47,000, fully loaded before discounts, I think it's a great bargain. The Hyundai also enjoys good resale and reliability. One advantage of the dated design is good visibility.


Fully agree about the Genesis, though I didn't drive the r-spec. Very nice throughout, smooth overall. I did indeed drive it before the others and it would have been a fine choice. Rwd only was a negative however as I routinely drive through Colorado in the winter. Unreal value with that price and warranty. They've come a long way.

kdt
09-11-2011, 08:07 AM
I recently looked at the Hyundai Genesis R Spec and the Buick LaCrosse Touring. Obviously these cars are quite different from my 7 series or the A6, but each has some good unique aspects.

The Buick, loaded at $39,000 has a heads-up display that displays speed and also the information from XM. The ride is excellent with its 19" wheels. The only things missing are a posh cabin and a powerful engine.

The Hyundai's interior is quite nice if a bit dated, and the 429 hp V8 and 8 speed transmission are very smooth. The Genesis has the interior volume of my 750i. The ride is a bit unsettled, and the comfort is average. The Genesis is most impressive if you haven't driven an Audi or BMW. There's just a bit of refinement missing. At $47,000, fully loaded before discounts, I think it's a great bargain. The Hyundai also enjoys good resale and reliability. One advantage of the dated design is good visibility.

I'd also consider a Jaguar XF or S60. :)

That's interesting...if the Genesis is as roomy as the 750i, the Equus must be absolutely huge.
Also, I agree with you about the XF. I believe it is one of the most overlooked and underrated cars in its class. It provides 5.0 V8 power for the same price as the V6 E350, 535i, A6, and M37. It's also gorgeous inside and out, and arguably has more "soul" and "passion" than the relatively austere Germans, for lack of a better term.

scottphillip
09-11-2011, 08:16 AM
The Genesis and the 750i have the same interior volume according to the EPA. The LWB 750il is roomier. I think the XF is much smaller inside. The Equus is only a bit roomier inside. It just looks like a whale.

kdt
09-11-2011, 08:41 AM
^ This is spot on.
Also, according to the EPA, The M37 is almost as big as the Genesis/750i, whereas the E350 and A6 are just about the same size as the XF.
The 535i is in between, but is still startlingly close to the size of the SWB 750i. This confirms the notions that the F10 has grown significantly from the size of the E60.

scottphillip
09-11-2011, 11:43 AM
I'm not sure why I'm hung up on the room. It's usually just me in the car. The 7 has a wide center cabin (with little storage). The Genesis has a less intrusive console (with more storage) and an airier greenhouse.

Having been in a car accident, I tend to shy away from vehicles with less headroom. I don't know if a Hyundai is built to the same standards as a German luxury car. The Genesis does well on some crash tests.

Something bugs me about the Hyundai being a "copy" of a more expensive car. Why are so many de-badged? I'd be tempted to do the same. At least the Hyundai Sonata is unique.

I don't know if I'm too snobbish to trade down to a Hyundai. However, an Audi would be a lateral move. It's hard to beat the Audi styling. :)