I'm kicking around either the 7er or the A8. I must say - i am just not impressed w/ the exterior of this car. Saw it at the car show, and it just looks like an A4/6 on steroids. I actually liked the D3 body (and still do), it just seems to have a more conservative look, dunnoo.....

Anyway - i like the new 7 series as well, similar price, i like it primarily for the handsome, not overstated exterior. Anyone here compared the two and/or driven the two? I plan on swinging by the local Audi dealer today to take a look if they have on yet.

Curious if anyone has compared the two & what your thoughts are...

Aceman

If you didn't notice the 7 series looks like a bigger 3/5 series so you can't just say that about the audi but anyway I work for audi and get to drive the new A8 every day and when it comes to interior styling, and the way it looks when coming down the road it doesn't get any better then the A8. The DRL lights are awesome, the ride is amazing and the comfort level is beyond expectations. Don't get me wrong the 7 series is a great car but they are all over the roads, i Prefer to not drive a car that 5 of my neighbors have.

Also the new A8 is as long as the previous generation A8L.

You would be surprised to see how many S class and 7 series customers are coming in to order the A8 after seeing it.

its funny because after i posted i should of clarified - i agree that the 7 is a larger 5 (especially now that the new 5 is out)...obviously each manufacturer carry's their theme across the lines. I don't know, i think audi's interior is the best, but i'm a gadget guy, and i (hate to say it) but the new idrive is great. I'm going to need to sit in both to figure this out. I am also a fan of the 7er being only 199 long vs. the audi growing to 203 or so(?)...

thx for your input.

Aceman

If I were buying new right now I'd get a Panamera.

but i'm a gadget guy, and i (hate to say it) but the new idrive is great. I'm going to need to sit in both to figure this out. I(?)...

thx for your input.

Aceman

wait till you check out the new setup in the A8. The best feature is being able to spell out your destination with your finger instead of turning the nob to find each letter.

wait till you check out the new setup in the A8. The best feature is being able to spell out your destination with your finger instead of turning the nob to find each letter.

if that works anything like my cel phone, i have no interest.
you're sounding a little salesman-y. :)

re the new 7, my feelings are similar to the OP.
i'm a little leery on the D4 styling too, but i'm sure
the audi gives more bang for the buck,
as did the D3 vs all comers.
fwiw the 7 looks best to me in the M-sport flavor
and is a worthy candidate. the bmw interior is not
too shabby either. cockpit tilts to driver as in
their older models.

ps i have not driven either car.

You might want to check out the comparison between the 7 Sport option and the Lexus sport option in the current Road & Track. FWIW, I have driven the Pan S and 4S as well as the D4. Very different beasts. Pan is a purer driver's car than the D4. No question that the D4 is more dynamically capable than the 08 D3 sport, but I decided to wait for next year's D4, as Audi might just put a more powerful engine in it.

Curious if anyone has compared the two & what your thoughts are...

Aceman

I drove both today. A few provisos:

The Audi had the 4.2 TDI engine, not the 4.2 FSI I assume you are considering. It was fitted with 20" wheels, standard adaptive air suspension, and lots of options.
I am not really interested in either car - they are both too big, a problem in my region with regard to parking spaces. I drove the A8 to give me a sense of what the A7 will feel like, and the 750i x-drive because there are no 550i x-drives being brought in by the dealer this year. And I wanted to see how the new x-drive system felt. I hated the previous system as fitted in BMW's E60 model. It killed dynamics, and an Audi A6 Quattro is a dramatically better car than any E60 x-drive.


The motor in the BMW made good top end power, but I was surprised by a relative lack of torque lower down. The V8 diesel in the Audi is just a monster of an engine, which huge torque everywhere. The incline of the road made no difference to the Audi, but the BMW was slowed on steep climbs. The Audi engine also sounded and felt sportier to drive, the BMW a little quieter and smoother. The BMW fuel consumption was more, much more, than double the Audi - for less real world grunt.

The Audi has the new 8 speed ZF automatic transmission, which is also being used in the F10 5 series. The BMW uses an older 6 speed transmission. It is not as good - slower to shift, and not as smooth.

The ride in the Audi seemed broken after the BMW. The BMW had the M-Sport pack, so was also on 20' wheels. The Sport setting on the BMW was smoother and more compliant than the Comfort setting on the Audi. I was shocked at the difference, as I had driven this Audi a week before, and thought it had a comfortable and quiet ride. But that was compared to our A6 S/Line and S5 cabriolet, which are both pretty firm. Whilst the Audi looks great with 20" wheels (don't they all), I would only get 19" wheels after this experience.

The steering on the BMW felt better, more precise, felt really connected to the front wheels, and made you feel you could direct the car with absolute precision. In comparison, the Audi felt relatively disconnected and vague. This literally jumping from the BMW into the Audi. Personally, I find I adapt to different steering quite quickly, and after half an hour or so, I was not unhappy with the Audi steering. The 3 spoke steering wheel on the Audi felt thin and flimsy, and cheap after the fat M wheel on the BMW. But I can also understand that many may find the BMW M wheel too thick.

Both cars handled very well for their size, in fact they seemed to shrink around you - always a good sign. The Audi a little more so than the BMW. The BMW engaged its traction control a few times in situations that the Audi did not. Whilst the BMW was a little easier to place more accurately when really throwing the cars around, and gave a better sense of what the suspension was doing and when the limits were being approached, the Audi just has more grip, not to mention better throttle control with these engine / transmission options. So whilst BMW has managed to re-engineer x-drive so the car still feels like a BMW, Audi's quattro systems are still the king of ultimate grip.

One annoyance with the Audi was that to change parameters of ADS required use of the MMI system, which is a very clumsy approach. Our S5 Cab has switches on the dash - and I often switch between Individual and Auto. The BMW system switches on the centre console next to the shift lever. Very easy to use, and doesn't require taking eyes off the road. Personally I wish these controls were on the steering wheel.

Both cars are very heavy - you should note that the 4.2 FSI Audi is much lighter than the TDI version I drove. Even so, the BMW felt a little heavier on the road than the Audi. So I would imaging this feeling will be much more pronounced with an A8 4.2 FSI.

I won't bother commenting on design in any detail - this is subjective.

The interiors are both very pleasant, but different. The BMW design makes it feel more spacious, whereas the Audi feels more intimate. Quality in both seemed very high, with the exception of the Audi steering wheel. The Comfort seats in the BMW were much softer than the Sport seats in the Audi. It is much easier to configure the seats, and both have a ridiculous amount of control, via the MMI interface on the Audi. It took me an hour to find a comfortable seating position in the BMW, vs 2 minutes in the Audi.

Given that you like gadgets, which I am not so into, I can add that the Audi seems to have even more than the BMW, with the sole exception of a head-up display. Which will be coming on the A8, as it has been introduced on the A7. I enjoyed this on the BMW for the first 30 seconds, then it annoyed me. I found it distracting.

Hope this helps. From my perspective, the A8 is more sporting, the 750 is more luxury. The difference was, for me, significant. So I imagine if you can organize a test drive of both, you won't find the decision too difficult.

if that works anything like my cel phone, i have no interest.
you're sounding a little salesman-y. :)

Honestly it works great, you draw with your finger the street address or phone number. Go to your dealer and try it out.

appreciate the input....

I am leaning towards the 7, saw a D4, just didn't get the juices going.
I plan on going w/ sport pkg, HUD, lux seating, prem sound, cold pkg..

List on this car is around 100K so i think Audi is definately priced right. I will obstain from pulling hte trigger till i drive the A8 (just saw it on a lot today).

Aceman

What was your choice in the end?
I have the same choice. I have to return my 09 S8 - which I adore - and am toying with the new A8, the 750xi with the M Sport pack and the 550xi also with the M Sport pack. I have driven both the A8 and the 750 and they are both excellent cars but the A8 is not different enough for me to get excited and loses on power to the S8 - of course.

Well...

I have not pulled the trigger yet but i plan on getting
750xi. I am also not a fan of how large the a8 has grown...


Aceman

I currently have a 2009 750i. I really like the comfort of it and some of its features. It has lots of power, awesome seats, and good handling. My car has the heads-up display, which I really like. It has spent about three weeks in the shop in the past year--mostly waiting on parts.

I looked at the D4, but didn't get a chance to drive it. I liked my 2007 S8. It probably was one of my favorite cars. I am a big Audi fan, but also enjoy the 750. I am waiting to see how the D4 fares as far as reliability before returning to the Audi camp.

A month ago I traded in my A8L for a 2010 BMW 750i that was pre-owned...got an amazing deal on it that I couldn't refuse.

I have owned 3 BMWs in the last 7 years, and the 750i REALLY steps up the level of interior quality, it is the first time I've been satisfied with a Bimmer interior. It has a nice layout, extremely comfortable seats and the screen and Nav are fantastic.

The ride is solid, handling is amazing and the power kicks you when you mash on the pedal. I also happen to like the look of the 750i. The Comfort setting on the vehicle makes it as compliant a ride as a Mercedes or an Audi - the BMW harshness from past models is no longer present on this model.

What I don't like about the 750i is that it is not all wheel drive. I just realized how much I loved and missed the Quattro from my Audi. With all the horsepower in the Bimmer, my traction control kicks on everytime I make an aggressive right or left 90 degree turn, which proves annoying in urban driving. I never had that problem in the A8. In rain I also don't feel as confident with the car as I did with the A8. I would have DEFINITELY gone with a 750iX if the price were right at the time I was buying.

The Bimmer stereo is pure crap (including the PRemium). The Audi Bose standard system just kills anything from Bimmer. Of course the Bang Olufsen is the top of any car maker, period.

As far as other nits -- the BMW settings are not as configurable as the Audi, which is surprising given that they revamped the iDrive. The iDrive is not terrible, but even the last gen Audi system was better in my opinion. The new Audi MMI beats out the iDrive.

One thing I did not realize was that the 750 gets a LOT more attention from other people, which personally I don't like. The A8 was such a stealth vehicle, people would hardly notice it, yet it was a beautiful car.

I have driven the new 2011 A8 and it is an excellent car. The interior is still the top standard. It doesn't handle quite like the 750, as the Audi skews slightly more towards comfort. Also, the A8 doesn't quite have the same horsepower punch. But seriously, for urban driving I can live with a 0.4 seconds slower Audi.

I agree that the styling of the new A8 is somewhat of a disappointment (as is the A7 for that matter)! However, with some nice tint and maybe some upgraded wheels, it can still achieve a level of understated cool.

I will be going back to the 2011 A8 once I can get a good pre-owned one well optioned in a year or so.

If a new A8 is in your budget now, I'd say go for it and don't look back. However there are some sweet deals on low miles, new body style 750s right now...

both gorgeous and amazing machines the above review by Glisse was spot on. I own a B8 S4 and I have driven many M package BMWs and the steering wheel is much better in Bimmers.

Kept my 08 D3 Sport optioned Audi when lease expired due to concerns that Audi would increase engine output for the D4 next model year, but also because the D3 is still a very impressive automobile in every respect and because the Panamera 4S, albeit a much more expensive car than a fully optioned D4, beckons as only a Porsche can and in white actually does not look ridiculous from the rear quarter or side silhouette. A D4 S8 or upgraded D4 standard engine for the US remains tempting for next year.

IMHO the 7 series has beena failure in design overall. Big swollen rump and boaty look about it. I haven't seen the new A8 but the 7 is not for me, it's for a retired person who hauls dry cleaning around or oxygen.

-k

'L' and a D4 SWB is twice as much as the difference in wheel base between a D3 'L' and a D4 'L'.

Perhaps it's too early in the AM for me, but I have no idea what the heck that statement means. Here are the dimensional differences between the D4 and D3:

Overall Length: D4 NWB = 202.0" D3 = 199.3" (+2.7")
D4 LWB = 207.4" D3 = 204.4" (+3.0")
LWB vs. NWB = +5.4"(D4) +5.1"(D3)

Wheelbase: D4 NWB = 117.8" D3 = 115.9" (+1.9")
D4 LWB = 122.9" D3 = 121.0" (+1.9")
LWB vs. NWB = +5.1"(D4) +5.1"(D3)

The D4/D3 wheelbase variance is the same between LWB and NWB trims, with the D4 at +1.9" over the D3. The LWB wheelbase is 5.1" longer than the NWB for both the D4 and D3 platforms.

So, I bought my 750ix MSport with pretty much all of the options. It is a very nice car but I must tell you, I am grieving over not having my S8. Yes the BMW has awesome low end torque, yes it is very quick from 50 to 100, it is quiet, it is refined etc etc.
It looks like a boat as someone else described. It coughs at 1500 rpm yet shows no fault codes and is explained as "normal"?! It makes a grinding noise on full lock at low speeds so I guess BMW don't really know what they are doing with all wheel drive yet. There is no feedback to the driver so although it is quick, it just doesn't feel quick, it is not an exciting car to drive.
The iDrive is not as intuitive as the Audi MMI
The sound system is poor, with tinny vibrating noises from the door speakers - this happened on the demo car I took out so I guess it is normal? You have to pull every door handle inside or out twice for it to open, push the stop button twice for the car to shut down. You cannot decide to wash the headlights. The car decides that. Lights on, call for washers and you wash the lights. No choice. Despite getting full leather, the lower door panels are cheap hard plastic. Finally, the gearshift is a center sprung lever affair. Get this, you push it forward for reverse and pull it back to go forward. Now which genius thought that was a good idea?
Sorry to sound spoiled as this is a $120k car but I am disappointed. Maybe I will grow to love the car but I am not convinced. Audi did not give me options to stay with the brand until the new S8 is released but I will be in line when it comes out.
Happy choosing!

We know that car - test drove all of them, in the relative design/performance/price categories as the Audi. That's one great car, and I know it does have it's fans as the sales figures tell us. Funny that way, where I could never convince some friends/family to give up their S550, or the big BMW - it just suits them on many levels - as the Audi does for us. I can only imagine the pleasure of the D4 S8, and perhaps we will'take the hit' and trade next year - ****, it's only money and before gas goes to $6/gallon we decided to have as much fun while we can. You want crazy? We just traded our 2010 GL450 (12K miles) at a 18K loss for a fully optioned 2011 ML63 AMG. It's a ridiculous automobile and one terrific piece of depreciating machinary, but I haven't ever had more driving fun.

I feel your pain. The 750 is a great car, but it's all relative. When you compare it against the A8 (or S8), the 750 is missing all the little things that make the Audi flagship great. Perhaps the Audi sacrifices a hair of performance and cornering to the 750, but that's a small price to pay for the superior quality of the Audi's cabin and electronics.

I think that BMW is probably at least a full car-generation behind Audi in terms of AWD. I test drove the 750ix and also felt that the steering did not communicate the road like the Audi. The Quattro on Audi is superb. Even the 4Matic on Merc sedans cannot stack up to Quattro.

Incidentally, the tech website CNET has an interesting review of the D4 Audi A8, with an emphasis on the tech, but also driving impressions. In both tech and driving, they rate the D4 A8 superior to all other brands. Take that with a grain of salt, but it certainly confirms the same opinion of the 3 other folks I know who have actually driven the D4 A8 vs. 750 and S550.

Hey Folks,

Since i was the OP figured i'd let everyone know what i ended up doing.
Aboslutely Nothing! I must admit, i took another look at hte A8,
and the exterior is definately growing on me. The interior is very nice.
My two main issues w/ teh A8 are the ridiculously sized trunk & the fact
that a new engine is on the horizon.

Anyway - teh 7er is definately out now, driving 23-25K a year with gas
going nowhere but up, i'm sitting tight till I see the A7 next month...

Aceman

Hey Folks,

Since i was the OP figured i'd let everyone know what i ended up doing.
Aboslutely Nothing! I must admit, i took another look at hte A8,
and the exterior is definately growing on me. The interior is very nice.
My two main issues w/ teh A8 are the ridiculously sized trunk & the fact
that a new engine is on the horizon.

Anyway - teh 7er is definately out now, driving 23-25K a year with gas
going nowhere but up, i'm sitting tight till I see the A7 next month...

Aceman

Yeah, the exterior look of the D4 did grow on me also---it's a very classy looking car.

As for the new engine, while it appears the new 4.0L turbo will begin with Oct '11 production, North America may not see the new engine until early/mid 2012---at least if the ETKA info is accurate. Having had 2 Audi 2.7T (twin turbo) cars (just before moving up to the A8), I can attest to the punch and fun you can have, but there will always be some level of turbo lag---something that I don't miss, and now enjoy the smoother power band of the NA engine...I guess I'm getting too old for all that turbo excitement ;^)

From what I've read, the A7 looks like it will be a blast to drive with the supercharged V6 mated with the new 8-speed tranny. I'd think the forced induction 4.0L V8 in the S7 will really be something!!!

Having seen a few A8's the last week on the road and odd A7 or two, I'm hard pressed to love the A7 in all honesty.

The sheer presence of the A8 on our puny British roads cannot be matched by the A7. The drl's on the non-full-LED A7 make you think it's an A5 from the front. The back has a slightly sad droopy face, and also looks a little like the Afla Sud (I am told it's the same designer who did both cars).

Just a personal opinion.

We're probably swapping our 2 year old Q7 for the new A6 (subject to agreeing the final spec/colour tomorrow). With 57mpg+ (47 mpg US)combined for the FWD 3.0 TDI, can't go too wrong I hope.

Jet

Aceman, I had the same issue with the trunk size, compounded by an inability to fold the rear seats. So I bought the A7.

The A7 has much more room in the trunk - it gets shallow towards the rear, but you can fit much more in than the A8, plus you have the flexibility to fold the seats. Of course, you can only seat two rear passengers, at the moment, in the A7. So that's a fundamental decision. Also, the A7 has a low payload - if you have 4 large adults in the car, you are not going to be able to fill the trunk up with bags of cement.

Rear world fuel consumption of the supercharged 3 litre engine is not going to be that much better than the V8 though. At the moment, mine is using 20% more fuel than my wife's S5 cabriolet. Of course, it will calm down a bit when it is run in. Also, the higher output engine in the S5 is much punchier. There is more than a 10% difference in power. I think the A7 really does put out around 300BHP, whilst the S5 version is closer to 375 than its rated 333.

To get an appreciable difference in fuel consumption, you really need to move to a diesel engine, and you don't seem to be getting that option in the US.

As I'm in Europe, I have the 7 speed S/tronic gear box, so can't comment on what the 8 speed auto will be like - very smooth, I expect. The S/tronic in the A7 is mapped completely differently to that in our S5, and it is much, much better.

I obviously can't agree with Jetinder's comment on the A7 styling, as I think the car looks fantastic. However, I do have LED lights, and even though my car is an S/line, I did not get exterior body kit because it does make the car look more like an A5/S5 and less like an A8. I should try and take some shots with it amongst other cars, becuase it is longer and sleeker than it photographs.

I would have liked an S7 - this is a big, grand touring type car, and the new V8 will suit it well. But couldn't wait until November. I would have liked an A8, but its packaging didn't work for me. But I am very happy with the A7, it is a fabulous car :D

Hey Glisse-

Love the look from the front --- low, wide, and aggressive. The color looks great also...is that Oolong? If so, looks way better on the A7 IMO.

Happy motoring!

Glisse,

I love your logic and your choice. I just cannot believe the small trunk in the A8/A8L especially compared to my 2008 A8L. It makes no sense. Also, I found other small but irritating issues with the interior "dumbing down" from the D3 version: cheaper and less useful center arm rests, lack of storage in the door panels, the elimination of the magnifying mirror in the visors (my wife really likes this feature in our current vehicle), lack of actual tire pressure readouts for the TPMS, etc. Yes, there are some definite upgrades, especially to the MMI system, but why cut corners when previous owners notice these things?

I've tried to "fall in love" with the D4 but just can't do it!

Like you, I'm focused on the A7 and like what I see. Yes, it's a different car but down-sizing a little is fine with me. I love the photos you submitted and would ask if you could take a few shots of your interior, especially one showing the driver's seat set as far away from the steering wheel as possible so I could see the back seat legroom. This will help me since we don't expect to see any A7's stateside until April/May.

Did you get the "comfort seats" in your A7? My understanding is that these are the very same seats as in the D4. Unfortunately, it seem Audi has decided we Americans aren't going to be able to order them as they're not on the website as a standalone option or as part of a package of options. I'm struggling with their logic.... I may have to wait another year to be able to order the options I want.

Hey Glisse-

Love the look from the front --- low, wide, and aggressive. The color looks great also...is that Oolong? If so, looks way better on the A7 IMO.

Happy motoring!

I almost went for the Oolong, as you know derfA8L, but decided it was a bit too dark for the A7 which needs to show off its lines.

So I played it safe and went for Daytona, which I knew was going to look good. Because it is an S/line, Daytona is available at the standard metallic upcharge.

Not to mention my wife's S5 is white, and I needed a car that was easier to keep clean ;)

Glisse,
...
Did you get the "comfort seats" in your A7? My understanding is that these are the very same seats as in the D4. Unfortunately, it seem Audi has decided we Americans aren't going to be able to order them as they're not on the website as a standalone option or as part of a package of options. I'm struggling with their logic.... I may have to wait another year to be able to order the options I want.

No, the car is an S/line and comes with sports seats,with Valcona leather. Which is an upcharge here in mainland Europe. Standard is cloth!

The comfort seats look very similar to those in the A8, but I do not think they are exactly the same. They are an expensive option here, in part because they mandate selecting a number of other options as well. I am surprised they are not coming to the US, but assume they are trying to contain the package cost.

I will try and take an interior shot in the next few days. My perception is that it is around half way between the A6 and the A8 (not A8L) in terms of rear legroom. The best guide is on the Audi German site (or several others, but maybe not the UK) that details all the internal measurements via diagram, and you can compare these to the A8. The feeling in the back is like being in a spacious coupe, not like a sedan. If you have claustrophobic passengers, they mightn't like it, even though they will have plenty of room.

I almost went for the Oolong, as you know derfA8L, but decided it was a bit too dark for the A7 which needs to show off its lines.

So I played it safe and went for Daytona, which I knew was going to look good. Because it is an S/line, Daytona is available at the standard metallic upcharge.



The Daytona looks really good on the car, especially with those wheels. Enjoy. BTW, you were right to skip on the Oolong---looks great under interior lighting conditions, but IMO gets very muddy (khakki colored) in sunlight.

Glisse -

Great post, great pics! Man i wish we had diesel's on this side of the pond. I'm hearing the A7 will be in dealerships in a few weeks (march) so i'm really getting the itch to finally see it in person. Your pics look awesome! I liked the 535GT (size wise) but the rear end was just a bit too much for me to take, audi IMO has done a nicer job of keeping the car
sporty.

Aceman

While my S8 was once again dropped off for work at the dealer I decided to take a look at the 7s. The showroom had a black 535 loaded to 69k and a black 750i both sport abot 20 ft from each other. I could barely tell the difference (cant see the 100hp difference) and the salesman told me that they are about the same size. is it worth the 30k difference?

B


I'm kicking around either the 7er or the A8. I must say - i am just not impressed w/ the exterior of this car. Saw it at the car show, and it just looks like an A4/6 on steroids. I actually liked the D3 body (and still do), it just seems to have a more conservative look, dunnoo.....

Anyway - i like the new 7 series as well, similar price, i like it primarily for the handsome, not overstated exterior. Anyone here compared the two and/or driven the two? I plan on swinging by the local Audi dealer today to take a look if they have on yet.

Curious if anyone has compared the two & what your thoughts are...

Aceman