I think the article missed a few points, but they still give the A4 a good review. But beat by a cadillac?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703399204574505290428749468.html

One persons opinion, so take it for what its worth. Note the Subaru being compared to a Cadillac and Audi, whatever on that one. Nothing refined about a Subaru.

The Cadillac definitely has its own unique personality, and the 304 HP under the hood doesn't hurt in most critics minds.

At least the A4 came in 2nd place. I made a similar comparison (http://search.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=23863432) before too.

If only Audi USA would provide additional engine choice's. The 2.0t is okay, just not my cup of tea. By choices, the torquey TDI 2.0 170PS version or the 3.0TDI both with Audi's DSG 7sp gearbox to name a few. I'm just saying....

If only Audi USA would provide additional engine choice's. The 2.0t is okay, just not my cup of tea. By choices, the torquey TDI 2.0 170PS version or the 3.0TDI both with Audi's DSG 7sp gearbox to name a few. I'm just saying....

Well, the diesel engines are quite something..... if gas was like $7 gallon.... otherwise I would not give up the glorious free revving smooth gasoline engine, not to mention the umpteen pumps to the one smelly diesel pump at most stations if they have it at all!

Here in Canada fuel is more expensive but still no where near the price that would give me incentive to put a tractor engine in my car.

Love the 2.0t.

Mitch105, you need to get out more often. Do yourself a favor by driving a modern diesel, try anyone of the VW/Audi products. Mosey on down to your local VW dealer asking to drive a VW 2.0 diesel - afterwards please edit your post here in the Forum.....

Modern diesels are an eye opener.... drive the torque baby.... 30 to 40MPG isn't to chabby either. I'm just saying.....

Mitch105, you need to get out more often. Do yourself a favor by driving a modern diesel, try anyone of the VW/Audi products. Mosey on down to your local VW dealer asking to drive a VW 2.0 diesel - afterwards please edit your post here in the Forum.....

Modern diesels are an eye opener.... drive the torque baby.... 30 to 40MPG isn't to chabby either. I'm just saying.....

He represents the mind set why diesel isn't more popular in north america.. There are lots of people like him.

He represents the mind set why diesel isn't more popular in north america.. There are lots of people like him.

Yes, I probably do represent the N.A. mindset and I am North American born and bred. But, I am not provincial in my thinking towards diesels. I respect and admire the modern diesel. Especially the frugal 2.0TDI that VW sells.

I have driven a golf with this engine as well as the Mercedes Blutec in both their ML and GL SUVs.

But come on people really? A diesel over perfectly superior gas engines at our gas prices. Who's sniffing the fuel here?

The Golf with a stick is OK...kinda.... again if gas was 2-3x the current price. OItherwise nooooo.....

The Mercedes Bluetec is plain terrible. Why anyone would subject themselves to a bluetec engine in this price bracket of being able to afford and enjoy a nice Mercedes SUV with a gas engine is beyond me. Fuel economy? Sucks either way and give me a break. Can't afford fuel in your Mercedes?? Huh??

The Bluetec like other diesels redlines at like 1500rpm!! ....OK so I exaggerate, but the a redline of 4,000 rpm is hardly any fun.

Even though these diesels have a ton of torque, they actually have no guts (unless they are big engine small car diesels which crashes the fuel economy equation) so every time you need a hint of power the thing guns for it's 4k redline and stays pinned there..... just horrendous.

Once in a cruise everything is fine. Great. If you are highway high mileager go for it. Otherwise, big oil will have to raise their gas rates a long long way before I'll give up my awesome 2.0t gas engine that does everything better and great effortlessly.

Diesels are for Europeans that pay through the nose for fuel, farm equipment and the commercial truck industry etc.

Not for North American premium "car" owners.

We don't get their diesels because they know what I know. No one actually wants one. They don't either....

That's reality.

In Europe, fuel taxes, emission taxes, displacement taxes and dense urban driving environments makes that diesel price differential more palatable.

That is not the case in North America. I would love to own a A4 3.0TDI but I will never pay the huge price premium REQUIRED over the 3.2 (which of course isn't available anymore, either). I would need to own my car 8-9 years to even come close to breaking even with fuel savings. I won't own my car that long.

And I pray that the tax structure in North America NEVER makes diesels very attractive.

That's reality.

In Europe, fuel taxes, emission taxes, displacement taxes and dense urban driving environments makes that diesel price differential more palatable.

That is not the case in North America. I would love to own a A4 3.0TDI but I will never pay the huge price premium REQUIRED over the 3.2 (which of course isn't available anymore, either). I would need to own my car 8-9 years to even come close to breaking even with fuel savings. I won't own my car that long.

And I pray that the tax structure in North America NEVER makes diesels very attractive.



Yes, I meant to mention the added premium to purchase diesel to begin with.... on top of the fact...

And don't get me wrong. I think the modern diesel is quite an achievement, but no where near the general smoothness (V6, inline 6, or V8 especially), effortless drivability, and near perfect operating nature of a gas engine.

But come on people really? A diesel over perfectly superior gas engines at our gas prices. Who's sniffing the fuel here?


It all depends on how much you drive.... lots of people would buy them thinking they'll save much fuel but forget to include the premium on purchase price when you buy the car..

It all depends on how much you drive.... lots of people would buy them thinking they'll save much fuel but forget to include the premium on purchase price when you buy the car..
This is the same case with most hybrid vehicles as well.

This is the same case with most hybrid vehicles as well.

Yes, and the hybrid is awful to drive.... a gutless wonder with a crappy transmission and a nerdy video display to taunt your anxiety about saving fuel. In the case of Toyotas, a double entendre of sorts. One it being a boring as **** Toyota and two a hybrid on top of the boring ****. Really I find my ice maker a more exciting appliance then a prius. What nonsense.

However, I am sure one day an all-electric option will exist with a safe battery disposal program that will actually allow you to drive quite a bit using NO fuel. That would be good for buses and cars in urban areas. We'll see if the GM Volt works out.

As for me, I'll be driving the beautiful, perfect modern gas engine until I can't no more.

No to hybrid (hopefully forever)
No to diesel
No to that ugly ALLROAD thingy

One last thing too. If hybrid takes off, where do you thing the electricity will come from? Coal? Houston we have a problem?

The hybrid thing is an endless array of "makes me feel good" but does no actual good. If you swap gas usage for electric usage and the electric generation is fossil, then wtf?

Oh my mitch, your fail is so incredible that I had to comment.

Yes electricity comes from coal but it also comes from solar, wind, nukular, and water. It's much more efficent to make electricty at a power plant running day/night and transmit it over a grid than to truck gas to 1000s of gas stations, put it into a cold car, warm up the car, etc. Even if the total amount of energy required at the end user remained the exact same you would still be far ahead in savings.

While 0-60 might not be as fast in a diesel, how many times do you accelerate from a dead stop to 60? Most drivers never redline their engines. Diesel puts power down low and your comment that they have no guts is simply false considering they have more torque and more usable torque compared to a similar gasoline engine. Diesel is a better match for most people's daily driving styles.

If you want a fast car with a high redline how about a honda s2000? It's a total slug until you get above 5000 rpm and talk about no torque, lol. I kept waiting for vtec to kick in but I was sadly disappointed. I'll take torque right now and lots of it, thank you. Maybe not a diesel in a sports car but daily drivers use torque more than hp.

People, the cost to own something is not the purchase price it's the depreciation. Would you pay an extra 8% now for an investment that will be worth 50-60% more than a comparable investment after 10 years? The same idea works in the other direction - a car isn't an investment but look at used prices on TDIs, end of story. The new BMWs and MB are too new and take a big depreciation hit, but as they age they will probably hold their value better.

"Can't afford fuel in your Mercedes?? Huh??" It's not about affording, it's about saving money. Rich people like sales and saving money too.

Yes electricity comes from coal but it also comes from solar, wind, nukular, and water. It's much more efficent to make electricty at a power plant running day/night and transmit it over a grid than to truck gas to 1000s of gas stations, put it into a cold car, warm up the car, etc. Even if the total amount of energy required at the end user remained the exact same you would still be far ahead in savings.

Yes, but that kind of reality is no where in site at our current level of hybrid/battery technology and as I said if we had a real all electric option it would be good.



While 0-60 might not be as fast in a diesel, how many times do you accelerate from a dead stop to 60? Most drivers never redline their engines. Diesel puts power down low and your comment that they have no guts is simply false considering they have more torque and more usable torque compared to a similar gasoline engine. Diesel is a better match for most people's daily driving styles.

I never said I want to redline. In fact the 2.0t gas motor has such effortless power there is no need to thrash the engine for power. But a diesel, to make any acceleration needs to gun it's red line all day long. In a cruise it's fine. Try driving a Merc SUV with blutec and you will see how inferior the diesel is. It redlines all day long just to get up to speed or merge on a hwy. Gas engine not at all.

If you want a fast car with a high redline how about a honda s2000? It's a total slug until you get above 5000 rpm and talk about no torque, lol. I kept waiting for vtec to kick in but I was sadly disappointed. I'll take torque right now and lots of it, thank you. Maybe not a diesel in a sports car but daily drivers use torque more than hp.

I have a fast car with high redline. My 09 A4 Avant with the 2.0t. It make power off the line and don't stop until over 120km/h at least. And without high revving unless you want full power.


People, the cost to own something is not the purchase price it's the depreciation. Would you pay an extra 8% now for an investment that will be worth 50-60% more than a comparable investment after 10 years? The same idea works in the other direction - a car isn't an investment but look at used prices on TDIs, end of story. The new BMWs and MB are too new and take a big depreciation hit, but as they age they will probably hold their value better.

That is pure here-say. Any number of factors affect resale. You could have an accident that is on record. That will kill resale. The TDI has good resale because they cost too much when new. A good case can be made for cheaper used one. As more diesels come online and as the cost of acquiring a diesel lessens that will be moot.


"Can't afford fuel in your Mercedes?? Huh??" It's not about affording, it's about saving money. Rich people like sales and saving money too.

Yes rich people like to save money too. But purchasing a diesel Mercedes is not the place to do it. You give up all that is great in either their perfectly linear and silky smooth V6 or their robust kick-ass V8 all for what... to save money.... no.... it's a silly choice blutec.