I'm supposed to pick up my car this weekend. I had the dealer fax me all the paperwork ahead of time to avoid any surprises. When we negotiated the price of the car I stated clearly that the price should include all dealer fees, gas guzzler tax, etc. We agreed on $X + "tax, tag, and title".

When I reviewed the paperwork, everything was in line except for a $499 "Doc Fee" that appeared to be in addition to the tax, tag and title, each of which has their own line item. I argued that this was not in our deal and was basically hiking the price at but the dealer is arguing that it's part of "tag and title" and refusing to budge on the matter.

Is this normal practice for Audi? Shouldn't this have been included in the price quote? Or is a high doc fee a normal part of the "tax, tag, and title" part of the price?

Not that much $ in the big picture but just gives me a bad feeling about the whole deal. Or am I being unreasonable? Could use some advice...

I'm supposed to pick up my car this weekend. I had the dealer fax me all the paperwork ahead of time to avoid any surprises. When we negotiated the price of the car I stated clearly that the price should include all dealer fees, gas guzzler tax, etc. We agreed on $X + "tax, tag, and title".

When I reviewed the paperwork, everything was in line except for a $499 "Doc Fee" that appeared to be in addition to the tax, tag and title, each of which has their own line item. I argued that this was not in our deal and was basically hiking the price at but the dealer is arguing that it's part of "tag and title" and refusing to budge on the matter.

Is this normal practice for Audi? Shouldn't this have been included in the price quote? Or is a high doc fee a normal part of the "tax, tag, and title" part of the price?

Not that much $ in the big picture but just gives me a bad feeling about the whole deal. Or am I being unreasonable? Could use some advice...


I can understand how this could upset you. All things considered, I will say that 5 bills isn't going to break you if you're financing, leasing, or certainly paying cash. However, a deal is a deal. If they quoted x-amount, then they should stick to it. Did you get anything in writing (like a not to exceed amount) when you agreed on the final price inclusive of ttl?

$500 sounds like a bull**** charge and a way to get more $$$ from you. He knows you aren't going to walk at this point (are you?). So, he's got you by the short hairs.

In Maryland, there's a limit of, I think, $99 for "processing" which makes things better.

If you're willing, ask for your deposit back and walk if he gives it to you. Are you prepared to give up the car? Appealing to a car salesman's morals and ethics is normally considered oxymoronic.

Years ago I was taught to ask for the "out the door price" in writing. It eliminates these problems.

$499 is really high, in Virginia most dealers try to charge around $400 as if it's a standard fee. I went to MD where it is capped at $99. The doc fee is just their "cost" of doing paperwork - total BS. Ask them why they don't charge you for things like the electricity they spend when you are in the showroom. Of course the response is that they don't charge you for detailing/washing and filling it up with gas. Isn't that part of car prep?

Spam filter restricted my post for some reason...cont:

I had a similar arrangement with my dealer in MD. I asked several times for an exact quote including all fees. I was told invoice + 1K (our deal) + $99 + tax, tags & Title. Upon arrival, the invoice had a $195 car prep fee and a $186 DC advertising fee on the AoA side (not MSRP). I disputed it intensly for several minutes, but the dealer said they were AoA fees, and did not come out of their profit. Either way it was a poor move on the salesman's part, it's not like it was the first audi he had sold. I find it all very suspect, considering AoA supposedly doesn't do holdbacks? Guaranteed the dealer gets some of that money back!

In NJ a dealer is required to charge a doc fee to all if they charge it to any, and the amount may not vary. So essentially, all buyers must pay the same fee, even though the amount may vary from dealer to dealer. All the paperwork at most dealers has the doc fee pre-printed on the sales form.

Regional advertising fees are also typical, at least here in the Northeast, but they should be disclosed as part of the negotiation.

Typically (at least in houston), at the bottom of the dealer website, in very fine print it lists the "doc fee" and "dealer service charge". The doc fee is typically charged (from my car buying experience) and the amount is limited by my state law. At the time I bought mine in Texas, it was $50 max (it has changed since then), and guess what they charged...$50. The "dealer service charge" is another fee and it is totally bogus in my opinion for $400ish. For example, my dealer website explicitly says that its a mandaotry fee for advertising coupons. I dont know if it really mandatory,...BUT there is one way to get around it. In my case, I had already agreed on a drive out price. I told them specifically, if it was any more than the agreed price, I would not even come in. So they lowered the sales price of my car and added the dealer service fee so that after TTL, the amount still equaled the agreed drive out price in the end.

Moral of the story is that they will probably try to tack on as many "fees" as they can. If they "can't" remove it, tell them to work it into the price so that all you are paying is what you agreed upon in the beginning. Worked for me.

Read this for more info.
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/car3.htm

You should add your location to your profile. Someone might be able to help you out if they knew where you're from.

I can understand how this could upset you. All things considered, I will say that 5 bills isn't going to break you if you're financing, leasing, or certainly paying cash. However, a deal is a deal. If they quoted x-amount, then they should stick to it. Did you get anything in writing (like a not to exceed amount) when you agreed on the final price inclusive of ttl?

Yes, I did.We must do a deal is a deal.

I'm supposed to pick up my car this weekend. I had the dealer fax me all the paperwork ahead of time to avoid any surprises. When we negotiated the price of the car I stated clearly that the price should include all dealer fees, gas guzzler tax, etc. We agreed on $X + "tax, tag, and title".

When I reviewed the paperwork, everything was in line except for a $499 "Doc Fee" that appeared to be in addition to the tax, tag and title, each of which has their own line item. I argued that this was not in our deal and was basically hiking the price at but the dealer is arguing that it's part of "tag and title" and refusing to budge on the matter.

Is this normal practice for Audi? Shouldn't this have been included in the price quote? Or is a high doc fee a normal part of the "tax, tag, and title" part of the price?

Not that much $ in the big picture but just gives me a bad feeling about the whole deal. Or am I being unreasonable? Could use some advice...

A doc fee is in general a legitimate fee, and in many states the dealer has to charge the same fee to everyone if it's going to charge a fee at all.

That said, $500 is a lot. The fee itself in no way covers tax or title (which are charged separately) and is essentially pure markup for the dealer.

If you negotiated a price and it was only "plus tax and title" then you should fight the fee. They can still list it on your invoice but they should reduce the selling price by the same amount to make you whole. Now, if the agreement listed "tax, title and fees" then you aren't in quite as good a position and you might have to eat the fee.

Typically (at least in houston), at the bottom of the dealer website, in very fine print it lists the "doc fee" and "dealer service charge". The doc fee is typically charged (from my car buying experience) and the amount is limited by my state law. At the time I bought mine in Texas, it was $50 max (it has changed since then), and guess what they charged...$50. The "dealer service charge" is another fee and it is totally bogus in my opinion for $400ish. For example, my dealer website explicitly says that its a mandaotry fee for advertising coupons. I dont know if it really mandatory,...BUT there is one way to get around it. In my case, I had already agreed on a drive out price. I told them specifically, if it was any more than the agreed price, I would not even come in. So they lowered the sales price of my car and added the dealer service fee so that after TTL, the amount still equaled the agreed drive out price in the end.

Moral of the story is that they will probably try to tack on as many "fees" as they can. If they "can't" remove it, tell them to work it into the price so that all you are paying is what you agreed upon in the beginning. Worked for me.

Read this for more info.
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/car3.htm

You should add your location to your profile. Someone might be able to help you out if they knew where you're from.

Good tips. For soon to be Texas owners, here is the link to the registration fee schedule throughout the state for the balance of 2009. Hope this is helpful in thwarting any bogus charges at transaction close.

ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/fees/fee_chart_2009_1c.pdf

My dealer tried to hike the doc fee from $50 to $179 because Texas just changed the law allowing dealers to charge more based on an "approved" fee by the Texas DMV. Luckily I had a buyers order (showing the $50) that the dealer had signed prior to the increase and he had to lower the price of the vehicle instead. He also tried to add a dealer services fee of $495 which includes free car washes and loaner car- really great since I live 250 miles from Houston. I got him to agree to half that amount since I'll probably never service the car at his dealership. Next time I will definitely negotiate an out the door price. It wasn't worth all the heartburn trying to make him remove the $600+ extra charges and stick to the original price we negotiated off the invoice price.

Thanks to everyone who helped out with info and advice on this topic. In the end I bit the bullet and paid the doc fee. I was not at all happy about it but frankly since I was buying the car in another state, it was custom ordered, and insurance, flight, etc were all booked I had very little leverage and simply wasn't willing to sacrifice the whole deal over $500 and then have to wait another few months to get the car from someone else.

So, lesson learned. I'll always negotiate a "drive off" price inclusive of everything from now on, and I'll never trust a dealer to be forthcoming when it comes to disclosing fees. So be warned: if your negotiated price is "plus tax, tag, and title" that really means "tax, tag, title, and a potentially very high doc fee".

To be fair, the sales staff at the dealer (Audi of Charlotte, NC) were extremely helpful and friendly throughout the process. With the exception of the doc fee discussion everything went perfectly. They even picked me up at the airport. However, I still contend that faiure to disclose their extremely high doc fee until the last minute is a systematically devious and unethical business practice that is designed specifically to trap buyers into giving up more money than they originally negotiated.

Knowlege is power: Audi of Charlotte has a great sales staff that will make you feel welcome and appreciated throughout the sale. They also charge a $499 doc fee that they may not tell you about until you have pen in hand. Do with that information what you will

Frankly at this point I could care less about all this doc fee business. I'm thoroughly enjoying my new S5 and any turbulence in the buying process has been long erased by smiles that threaten to split my head in two.

Thanks again to the Audi community for all your help.