I am sitting here DREADING having to go to work tomorrow; typical scenario: two adult males with<br>two to four pre-teen kids (mostly males) amble into the showroom. They're either driving a late '80's-early '90's 5-series or a FourRunner. The<br>car has Connecticut or Maryland plates. "We'd<br>like to test-drive a _______." This **** starts at 10;00 in the morning, and drags on 'till<br>we close at 6:00. One adult male lives in the area<br>and his brother, who lives in Ct./Md. mentioned that he was considering getting a new car in the next year or two. So, now that everyone has eaten<br>all day on Thursday, and are now tired of being in the same house with each other, and now that the women are heading out to the malls/outlets for the annual Black Friday Bacchanalia, let's<br>go waste the Audi guy's time. He doesn't have anything better to do. And it's even worse if they<br>start off with "We'd like to test-drive a Porsche." Sorry, they're all sold. The biggest crime of all is that the few people who do visit tomorrow who actually need to/want to buy a new car may very well be under-serviced because of the selfishness/stupidity of these INCOHERENT IDIOTS.<p>Like I said, worst day of the year.

Steve,<br>I'm about to purchase an A4 and dreading the negotiation process. I've done all my homework -- studied the dealers cost vs. MSRP and know exactly what I want. Naturally, I want to purchase an A4 for as little as possible over the dealer invoice. I don't want to haggle or be sent to the sales manager for an arm twisting, etc. As a salesman what advice can you offer me. I realize you (as a salesman) would want to sell for as high as possible. What would you consider a bargain for the buyer? Fair for both parties? And a ripoff for the buyer? I was going to offer 4% over invoice but walk away from anything over 6%. Does that seem reasonable or unlikely?<p>I'll understand if you don't want to answer and please don't think me rude but I just thought I'd ask.<p>Thanks.

Sorry!<br>

Bob: While there should be some variance for things like in-stock vs. order, periodic shortages of one model or another (for instance, right now, if you didn't order one some time ago, a 1.8Q 5-speed is VERY difficult to get), it's my belief that $1200. - $1500. over invoice is a fair<br>deal for the buyer and the dealer.

WHen I went to the Audi dealer in Naples, FL last december looking to test drive an A4, they told me "no test drives." This may have been due to the fact that I was only 25, and looked younger, and they thought that I couldn't afford the car. Well, I could, I had the money and 5 previous Audis to prove it. <p>In addition, I currently owned a modified Coupe Quattro, and had bought a Corrado from this dealer before (5 years ago). That should give me the right to test drive an A8 if I wanted to.<p>I asked for the sales manager, and argued with him for a while, and still no test drive. I told him to let me use his office to call AoA, and he still said no. 20 minutes of arguing later, I get to test drive an A4.....and guess what....I bought it. I didn't want to buy a car from these guys after my treatment, but I threw out a low ball offer and they jumped on it. I still have no idea why they sold me a car so cheap... I didn't want a white car, but the price was SOOOO good, I took it.<p>Once I was home, I wrote a 2 page letter to AoA, and 6 phone calls later from AoA, they started sending me a lot of free stuff to make me happy.<p>one final note: when I was filling out the paperwork, the *sshole salesman gave me a satisfaction survey and said that if I filled it out in front of him with all "good" responses, he would give me a certificate for a free car detail that I could use next time I was in town. I told him that I will not be bribed, and I was going to fill it out with all "poor" responses. 10 minutes later I came back in his office to collect all of my paper work to leave. When I got home, I noticed that he took the survey out of my paperwork. Jerk.....oh well, the 2 page letter took care of him.<p>Christian J. Long<br>dealer hater<br>

I'm not a big fan of dealers, BUT can understand what you (Jim) have to deal with. Your time can't be wasted by "window shoppers," right? <p>I walked out of one dealer last year because the GM wouldn't let me drive his 528i Sport (RIGHT AFTER I PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT HE TOLD ME TO BUY THE CAR THEN I COULD TEST DRIVE IT -- The salesman basically just shook his head in dismay and gave me my check back).<p>Second dealer wouldn't do a dealer search for an A4 Tiptronic... $2400 over invoice for an ordered car. No way.<p>Third dealer's GM (Audi of Bernardsville) blew smoke in my face. I didn't buy from them because I had just placed an order and was looking for a car already available.<p>Fourth dealer I bought from. Not real enthused about the dealer in general, but they had cars and gave me a good deal ($2000 over invoice including window etching).<p>All-in-all, car sales still sucks.<p>And as an aside - take a walk in my shoes (IBM e-commerce sales) for a day, and your view will be much more positive towards car shoppers...<p>-josh<br>98.5 2.8qms+Long Letter to Audi going out today

nt<br>

My dealer offered it to me...My windows are etched with a number.....if you pay for the service, the number is recorded on some computer somewhere. If your car gets stolen...they can identify it by the window etching number (or by the VIN number). I suppose it may deter an idiot car thief...but not the good ones. I didn't pay for the service, but my windows are etched.<br>I forget how much they wanted....about $350-500 or so...I think. It was discussed when I was with the finance manager discussing permaplate, extended warranties, and the like.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

Just wondering, but if you're not selling cars or showing cars to potential customers, then what exactly are you doing all day? I thought car salesmen would be more than happy to talk to people and go on test drives. <p>I mean, if you're busy then don't leave your office.. you shouldn't be available even for them to drop in and bug you. What's the problem with them looking at cars.. it's the same thing as people going window shopping and not buying anything.. eventually they will buy.. and then you will make your profit.<p>Peter<br>

Well, guys, you'll be thrilled to know that I survived. I actually MET some nice folks who were visiting from out-of-town who saw my post last night, and we shared a good laugh! I also offered them an A4 for a VERY nice price. I don't pre-judge prospective customers by age, or dress, or by what they're driving when they visit my store; I've had too many young, casually dressed, inexpensive people buy cars from me during my career as a Porsche and Audi person. I have very little patience for out-of-town visitors who have <br>NO intention of buying a car from MY STORE. I will<br>(and DO) extend myself more for someone who is honest with me and TELLS me that they're in from out of town, but would like to shoot the bull about A4s, Audis, or carsin general.<br>

Don't you realize that it's largely because of people who PUT UP WITH the outrageous nonsense that dealers dump on people EVERY DAY, and still continue in business? You BOUGHT THE CAR???<br>If enough people get up and leave withiut a fuss the MINUTE THEY BECOME UNCOMFORTABLE, this trash wouldn't last very long in the car business! I<br>can't believe YOU BOUGHT THE CAR!!!<p>

Remember when we had Guests?

I am sitting here DREADING having to go to work tomorrow; typical scenario: two adult males

Stopped there. Thanks though.

His preteen daughters are probably grown up and potentially attractive now.

His preteen daughters are probably grown up and potentially attractive now.
LOL @ what brings you back.

Sure am glad to see this thread resurrected. Thanks, vB.

Let's face it, today anyone can sell you a car.

But it's the dealership that encourages / rewards its team members (Sales, Service, Parts, Prep, Support Staff, etc.) to invests in the customer realtionship....look through the customer's eyes, understands their needs and then try to deliver more than they expect...that will connect with, attratact and maintain the serious buyer who in return will go nowhere else for his / her "motoring needs".

We all expereince it in our own buying. It's like "radar". You immediately sense the place is trying, gives a damn, trying to be reasonable, etc.

And you know it when places are just trying to move hardware.