This seems like a long answer to a short question - "Why do people think the S4 ever competed with the M3" - but I keep hearing it over and over again...especially from enthusiasts that are new to Audi or the S4. This question has come up more frequently recently due to the news that the B8 S4 will be competing with the 335 now...this is also the reason I'm posting this info here vs. the B6/B5/B7 forums. So I thought I'd share my 2 cents to see if it helps fill in some of the blanks.


The M3 vs S4 comparo has been around for 10+ yrs. The B5 and B6/B7 all directly competed with the M3. When new models came out for the S4 or M3 most (if not all) of the major car mags pitted the cars against each other. The M3 didn't always come out on top either! (even in C&D which is typically VERY preferential to bimmers) The two cars competed in a lot of ways, but def had some big differentiators - like AWD vs. RWD, Coupe vs Sedan, Turbo vs NA, 6cyl vs. V8, etc. However, I never recall seeing the B5, B6, or B7 ever compared to the 325, 328, or 330. It was only very recently with the arrival of the 335 and the M3 moving “up market” to directly compete with the RS4 that the S4 began to be compared to the 335. The RS4 used to be above the M3 (and obviously S4) as a ltd edition model (not even avail in USA until the past few yrs). The M3 was never a limited edition performance model...it historically had production numbers WAY above the S4's (let alone the RS4) If anything, the RS4 historically competed with the ltd edition M3 CSL (http://www.worldcarfans.com/2030228.002/the-bmw-m3-csl---in-detail)not the reg M3!

not sure where your info is coming from on the S4 not being close to the M3 in performance. There have been a ton of comparos that had the S4 winning in various categories (links to some below) and as others have mentioned, Top Gear had the S4 winning on the track.

Don't get me wrong...I love the M3 - always have...but I need AWD for year round driving. I have several friends and relatives who have had E36/46/90 M3s and drive many of them...after driving those back to back with my S4s I can def tell you they were direct competitors. I actually seem to recall that the B6 sales brochures had side by side comparisons for features/specs with the M3.

We're seeing a lot of current and previous S4 owners disappointed to see the S4 move down market to compete against non-AMG or M models. Plus, we're losing lots of cool unique things like the Recaro seats that used to help differentiate the S4 from the s-line A4 or other A4 models.

What's even worse is that it looks like if we want a true M3 competitor, we'll need to drop significantly more money (approx $10-15k) on a RS4 or RS5. Even with the B7 RS4 vs. the E90 M3 there was a hefty gap in selling prices...I had a few friends who were on the fence between the M3 and the RS4 over the past yr. When they drove them back to back (on test drives and also driving friends cars) the two cars seemed neck and neck. However when they looked at the real costs of the two cars they were all VERY surprised that the brand new model M3 kept coming in cheaper to finance or lease.



BMW also consistently got better reviews for quality of customer and vehicle service. This last point was directly comparing first hand experiences with Don Rosen and YBH Audi (our local Audi dealers) against Devon Hill BMW.


So with all of this info, hopefully it is clear to more people that these cars did actually compete head to head for 7-8 yrs or so...it also helps explain why so many of the S4 faithful are disapointed to see the S4 now aligned with the 335 instead of M3 these days.


Articles/Comparos:


Automobile Magazine B6 (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0409_cadillac_cts_bmw_m3_audi_s4/index.html)


Automobile Magazine B5 (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0105_midsize_luxury_performance_sedans/index.html)


Motor Trend (B5) (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/audi/112_9910_2000_audi_s4/turbo.html)


Car & Driver B6 (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2003_audi_s4_vs_bmw_m3_m_b_c32_amg_comparison_test/%28page%29/1)



http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/comparison_test/sedan/the_middleweights_compact_adrenaline_delivery_syst ems_comparison_test/audi_s4_quattro_bmw_m3_and_mercedes_benz_c32_amg/0305_adrenaline_gallery_1_jpg/438013-1-eng-US/0305_adrenaline_gallery_1_jpg1_gallery_image_large .jpg



http://image.automobilemag.com/f/6682477/0409+CadillacCtsVbmwm3AudiS4_Cadillac_CTSV_And_BMW _M3_And_Audi_S4+Various_Front_Views.jpg


</ end rant > ;)

Good post thanks.

If you are looking for a reason, look no further than the RS4.

Audi added an extra model, end of story. If you want a B8 RS4, putting your waiting hat on and you shall be appeased. ;)

Also remember BMW went upmarket with the M3 when they went from the E36 to the E46 M3. They introduced the hot 333hp Euro engine(previous E36 had the US-only weak engine) and the unique flared fenders, they also understandably jacked the price way up. Similar to the Audi introducing the RS4 as an upgrade to the S4. Hotter engine, special bodywork and HIGH price.

I wrote an article on wheels24.co.za comparing the 335i to my B8 S4. You might want to check it out.

It was only very recently with the arrival of the 335 and the M3 moving “up market” to directly compete with the RS4 that the S4 began to be compared to the 335.

M3s (and S4s, and C class AMGs) have always moved up market in price and performance with every generation. The B8 S4 is the exception here, not the E90/92 M3. I don't know why Audi fans keep trying to perpetuate the myth that the E9x M3 uniquely, unfairly, surprisingly or "pathetically" (in the words of one Audi dealer who posts here) moved up market with this new generation.

And, frankly, the M3 had to move up to keep up with the C63. There is no RS4 for the E90 M3 to compete with.

I wrote an article on wheels24.co.za comparing the 335i to my B8 S4. You might want to check it out.


Very nice write-up. I hope the US pricing follows suit and is less than the previous version. Unfortunately in the US, Audi is now bundling some of the nice performance options together with luxury options and charging a fortune for a "Prestige Package".

Waste of breath/energy. Thanks for the info we already knew

Its quip comments from d!ck#eads like you that give humanity a bad rap. If you don't have anything good to say . . . . you know the rest, you troll.

I can throw in my opinion while im here. Ive had my share of audi's (b5 a4 , s4 , b6 s4 , c55) and when it comes down to it customer service is what its all about. Most of the time most drivers will not see the track or races with their cars.

Audi IMO has the worst customer service around. It is near impossible to deal with them for major matters. I had one of the first b6 s4's and had it lemoned due to the misfiring issues on the motor. They had my car for 4 months straight while i was driving a pile of a loaner car and making payments on mine. They refused to get me a new car even after all that time until i got a lawyer. I have a friend now who had a new motor put into a A5 and dealership crashed her car while test driving the new motor O_o. Three months later and still no car showing back up.

Mercedes customer service is just a little better then Audi. Only problem is mercedes cars also spend alot of time in service with all the electronic functions they provide. Who cares if i get out of my car and my seat has to go back and steering wheel goes up to make it easier to get in and out. Just more items there screaming to go wrong...LOL and ive had my share here too.

Bmw i cannot comment as i have not owned one...


Performance wise between audi and benz i will take an audi over a benz all day long. Mercedes has great power in their motors but i mean you get a car with alot of power thats supposed to be sporty and they throw in a steering wheel from a bus in there O_o What the crap is this about. Even the amg ones are still way too big and bulky IMO.

Huge down side of owning an audi is that they switch models way too often now. From 2000-2009 they have gone through b5 , b6 , b7 , b8 O_o So much for resale value. Spend 60-70k and two years later a new model and you sell it at 30k.


In short avoid the M3 S4 C55,63 drama and just go 997 :P



setuout on ice :(

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_4955.shtml

things will be solved by MY 2011.

it is very possible that the V6 A4 may return- with the current S4 engine. and that the updated S4 will carry a 400 hp version of the same engine.

note: this fall the 2010 335i gets bumped to 333 hp. nuff said.

I wrote an article on wheels24.co.za comparing the 335i to my B8 S4. You might want to check it out.

Well, hope pricing in US is better like AP mentioned. Motor Trend review said a loaded one is 60k. Starting price is 49k. That is already more than a 335i (without Nav but everything else) for 47k.

Unless you're absolutely must have quattro and prefer Audi handling to BMW, it's hard to get S4 based on pricing above. Heck for the high 40s low 50s you could get a 10k miles used 08 M3.

Just drove my buddy's 2008 M3 Sedan.

My impression...this car is too fast for the street.
It was way too easy to overtake everything on the road...but did put a smile on my face.
In Ontario, Canada...if you are 50km over the speed limit, your car is impounded...i wouldnt last.
All in all a rocket, and definitely one of the fasted cars I have driven.
Interior wise, nothing to write home about. Ride was surprisingly pliant.

Have yet to drive a B8 S4, but expect that the performance will be great, but not in that "track ready" kind of way, like the M3.
What I am expecting to enjoy is a refined piece of performance machinery that stomps most things on the road and kicks some SUV ass during our nasty winters.

Have to concur, that the 335 sedan is the closest comparator...considering general performance, cost and the set-up.

It's all about preference...I'll take my audi thanks.