Visiting from the Mk2 TT thread. Thinking about a B7 RS4 or B8 S4 as a replacement for the TT as we are starting to get more and more visitors since we moved to our new house.
I'm a little torn on the mpg and environment thing, which suggests a B8 vs a B7. The supercharged B7 is supposed to be 30% better on gas than the V8. On the other hand, I have a solar heated ICF house, so I'm doing my part for mother nature.
Cost of car is not an issue and cost of gas is not an issue. But would be interested in real world mileage city/highway on the V8.
Any other decision points to consider ? Love to drive and a love a stick, so that's no issue.
sykotoy
03-30-2009, 04:04 PM
I get 600klm on one tank on the freeway v8 is great on long haul. + miltek its best car on the road
RS4_NY
03-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Rs4 ftw!
Tekk
04-01-2009, 11:17 AM
I drive the freeway quite a bit here in Cali and I average 22mpg on the highway (not driving like an ass...just cruising at 72mph).
Throw traffic into the mix and some spirited driving and Im getting about 300-330 for every tank with filling 15 gallons. So thats about 20-22mpg!
SilverCanuckTT
04-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Thanks guys. Don't do much better in my Mk2 TT 3.2Q MT6. I would have thought I'd get some more passionate responses on the RS4 vs B8 S4 question. Reviews for the new S4 are good after all. Many call it the best handling Audi other than the R8. But the RS4 is simpler and more visceral.
But thanks for the cerebral "one can get decent mileage" responses. That IS good to know.
RS Maniac
04-01-2009, 02:01 PM
You probably don't expect much B8 S4 votes from this group here, so call me biased, but once you drive a Quattro GmbH assembled RS you realize there is no substitute...
Honestly, I would even take the old V8 engine over the V6T. I know of many people hurrying to buy this yr's S5 (still V8) as in a few months it's changing to V6T. There is no substitute for displacement, and I would take a high strung N/A engine over anything with assited breathing (unless I seriously want to mod the snot out of it, which prompted me to get the N54 BMW engine for my other stable mate). And already journalists are stating how much they miss the deep growl of the old S4.
Add in subjective factors, such as exclusivity (you own a piece of history vs. just yet another example of mass production car), looks (wider flares, lower stance, brakes, suspension, yada yada ), etc. and I think the RS4 wins hands down. As far as outhandling, unless they tested an RS4 with no fluid left in the DRC system (quite possible as many such cases can be found LOL), there is no way the B8 S4 is better. I am willing to bet that it's Nurburgring times will be far off that of the RS4 (which heldd the record for a 4-door sedan prior to the CTS-V shattering it recently).
Tekk
04-01-2009, 02:15 PM
While I will not attest to how the B8 S4 performs/handles, it most likely will NOT compare to a stasis outfitted RS4. While I cant speak about DRC (my car was outfitted with Ohlins and H-Sport sways when I bought it used) I can say that the current upgraded suspension is simply amazing.
I would also give the nod to the V8 simply for its sound! I have not once gotten tired of my exhaust note and have been complimented several times even by an R8 owner and 09 M3 owner that it sounds beastly (I have the GMG exhaust).
Finally, the pricing of the RS4 is very tough to beat right now. The B8 isn't even out yet and Im sure there will be a nice little waiting list to even buy one at a stupidly premium price.
Sooo what Im saying is....RS4 FTW :D
SilverCanuckTT
04-02-2009, 04:50 PM
Well that's more like it ! Those are the kinds of answers I was looking for. Will keep you apprised !
craiglieberman
04-06-2009, 08:42 AM
S4 = watered down RS4.. slower, worse handling, might as well buy a Lexus GS430 and hop it up.
Two completely different cars, not even close.
VerrÜckt
04-07-2009, 01:57 PM
S4 = watered down RS4.. slower, worse handling, might as well buy a Lexus GS430 and hop it up.
Two completely different cars, not even close.
The handling comments don't really apply. The B8 is a better platform with significantly better weight distribution. The quattro sport rear differential adds a dimension that the RS4 doesn't have.
In many ways, the B8 S4 is a more enjoyable car than the B7 RS4.
RS Maniac
04-07-2009, 02:48 PM
The handling comments don't really apply. The B8 is a better platform with significantly better weight distribution. The quattro sport rear differential adds a dimension that the RS4 doesn't have.
In many ways, the B8 S4 is a more enjoyable car than the B7 RS4. I haven't driven the B8 S4 just yet (hoping next month perhaps), so can't make statements based on real life experience, but I will tell you this - I have yet to see anything more enjoyable than the RS4 (exotics included), I doubt the B8 S4 will come even close. In fact the RS4 has been so gratifying, my much faster modded-up-the-wazoo M5 has been made expendable.
High strung NA V8 with 100-hp per liter vs. a blown mid-sized V6? Answer for me is clear no matter what substance I may be under... The engine I have in my 135i (which is similar to the S4 [granted TT vs SC]) while fun does not come close to the exilerating experience of the 4.2 NA FSI.
As far as weight distribution, yes, the B8 is marginally better, but no where near 50-50, still pretty nose heavy based on the stats I've read in the foreign press.
VerrÜckt
04-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I haven't driven the B8 S4 just yet (hoping next month perhaps), so can't make statements based on real life experience, but I will tell you this - I have yet to see anything more enjoyable than the RS4 (exotics included), I doubt the B8 S4 will come even close. In fact the RS4 has been so gratifying, my much faster modded-up-the-wazoo M5 has been made expendable.
High strung NA V8 with 100-hp per liter vs. a blown mid-sized V6? Answer for me is clear no matter what substance I may be under... The engine I have in my 135i (which is similar to the S4 [granted TT vs SC]) while fun does not come close to the exilerating experience of the 4.2 NA FSI.
As far as weight distribution, yes, the B8 is marginally better, but no where near 50-50, still pretty nose heavy based on the stats I've read in the foreign press.
The B8 S4 is 55/45 and handles with a much more neutral attitude than the RS4. The chassis is stiffer and the steering feels more precise.
The RS4 makes better noises and is a little faster in a straight line. I was commenting on the handling aspect.
Just as you said, you haven't driven the car so you're just speculating. ;)
I've driven tuned RS4's that were faster than your M5, and I still think the B8 S4 has the better chassis.
RS Maniac
04-07-2009, 04:28 PM
The B8 S4 is 55/45 and handles with a much more neutral attitude than the RS4. The chassis is stiffer and the steering feels more precise. If you've driven it and speak from experience, I won't challenge you (not at least until I get to try it myself ;-o) You had a chance to drive the B8 S4 yet?
BTW, what is the RS4's weight distribution - 58/42 from what I recall (slightly better than the S4 IIRC as the battery was moved).
I've driven tuned RS4's that were faster than your M5, and I still think the B8 S4 has the better chassis. I've yet to see a B7 RS4 that puts more than 380whp (which would make it stronger than my E39 ///M), heck, even more than 345whp (umless it's MTM S/C'ed). I recon you mean B5 RS4s? If so, no stranger to gains of forced induction, with nothing more than a simple flash (i.e. not even any bolt-on mods) my little 135i will put more whp (needless to say tq) than the RS4... In fact, a friend of a friend has a tuned 135i (Active Autowerks IIRC) that outruns his mighty V-10 M5 till about 80mph, after that the V10 does stretch it's legs further.
VerrÜckt
04-07-2009, 04:37 PM
If you've driven it and speak from experience, I won't challenge you (not at least until I get to try it myself ;-o) You had a chance to drive the B8 S4 yet?
BTW, what is the RS4's weight distribution - 58/42 from what I recall (slightly better than the S4 IIRC as the battery was moved).
I've yet to see a B7 RS4 that puts more than 380whp (which would make it stronger than my E39 ///M), heck, even more than 345whp (umless it's MTM S/C'ed). I recon you mean B5 RS4s? If so, no stranger to gains of forced induction, with nothing more than a simple flash (i.e. not even any bolt-on mods) my little 135i will put more whp (needless to say tq) than the RS4... In fact, a friend of a friend has a tuned 135i (Active Autowerks IIRC) that outruns his mighty V-10 M5 till about 80mph, after that the V10 does stretch it's legs further.
He he, I take your word for it then ;-o) We should have some icons here, praiseworthy comes to mind :-)
Is the tq vectoring the same as in the 09 S5 (with the Audi Drive Select)? I've tested that, granted not at the levels in which you have put the B8 S4 .
VerrÜckt
04-07-2009, 05:48 PM
He he, I take your word for it then ;-o) We should have some icons here, praiseworthy comes to mind :-)
Is the tq vectoring the same as in the 09 S5 (with the Audi Drive Select)? I've tested that, granted not at the levels in which you have put the B8 S4 .
The torque vectoring rear diff will factor into drive select, but wasn't available yet on the 09 you drove. It's not here yet, and I don't think it's been announced when it's coming. I'm pretty sure the B8 S4 will be the first Audi with that diff this coming fall available here.
Don't get me wrong, the B7 RS4 is awesome...but there are key improvements to the B8 line that even the RS4 can't compete with. Chassis composure and at the limit behaviour is part of it.
The 4.2 HDZ engine in the RS4 is more fun though, I'll give you that any day of the week.
RS Maniac
04-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, the B7 RS4 is awesome...but there are key improvements to the B8 line that even the RS4 can't compete with. Chassis composure and at the limit behaviour is part of it.
The 4.2 HDZ engine in the RS4 is more fun though, I'll give you that any day of the week. Agreed - progress is inevitable and a manufacturer that doesn't push the envelope with each new model is not a car maker I would honor. So not surprised there is technology in the B8 S4 that makes the RS4 look dated.
Wonder how a Stasis equipped RS4 would fare vs. the B8 S4 if you found the handling to be superior on the B8? I am just more leak away from saying the hell with DRC and hello Stasis MS (gone through 6 shocks and 2 central accumulators)...
grendelswr
04-08-2009, 10:14 AM
I have an '08 RS4 and my father has the '08 S5. I assume the B8 S4 is going to be very comparable to the S5. I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but my RS4 gets about 20-22 mpg on the highway. The S5 is almost the same as well.
Bottom line is, if you want luxury and a severe decrease in speed and power, go with the S4. If you want a fun, throw you back in your seat car, go with the RS4.
grendelswr
04-08-2009, 10:22 AM
BTW RS Maniac. I see that Police badge thing in your car. Does that work when you get pulled over?
RS Maniac
04-08-2009, 11:18 AM
BTW RS Maniac. I see that Police badge thing in your car. Does that work when you get pulled over?
Tough to say as I rarely get pulled over ;-o)
In reality, I think it does, even in situations where you don't get pulled over. I've amounted enough empirical evidence to suggest that even traffic cops are more lenient, I've had situations where the parking meter had lapsed and all other cars had Wishing You Well greeting cards behind their wipers, mine was mirraculously excluded...
I also have a wallet that conveniently stores my insurance/reg papers with a badge and "Officer's Family" script. That usually is good for even the toughest of situations.
But one thing you need to be cognizant of - there are two organizations with not a whole lot of love loss among each other: PBA and FOP (Fraternal Order of Police). You may get a cop with a Napolean complex that does favor strongly one and not the other, so it may be an issue. And just stay away from fake badges, it is a state (perhaps Federal offense), mine comes engraved with a serial number and also paperwork that I need to present everytime I am asked to by an officer.
My main thing is to hopefully get away with no front license plate. Never had it on any of my cars (requirement in my state), and the latest car I picked up - 135i - doesn't even have holes drilled in the M Technik bumper, so I ain't drilling it myself. For a 'small' violation like that cops would generally let you go (I generally use the statement that this is a high strung car and the plate restricts its breathing - LOL), but if you were to act stupid on the roads, no badge can help you.
Having the card also let's you shop in the Cop Shop, you can get neat things there (pepper spray included!)
But funnny how diff things are in Europe. If I were in the UK, my car would likely get smashed and vandalized because I am a 'Bobby' (slang for cops). Apparently there is little respect for that there, especially if you park near a stadium on a soccer Sunday!
Reggie
04-08-2009, 03:23 PM
I get 25-26 on the hwy - 18 around town
SilverCanuckTT
04-19-2009, 11:52 AM
Sure, if you track your car, then understeer may be the bane of your existence. BUt for us driving out in the real world, with rain and snow, understeer has its purpose. The ideal balance for a road car is neutral handing to the 9/10ths and then understeer. Cars like the B7 A4 understeer much earlier than that, the RS4 seems to do it at 10/10ths.
All you have to do is look at all the RWD Bimmers (or in fact any RWD car) in the ditch in the winter on our 400 series highways and you can see the big loop where the back end came out and the car swung around.
Nonetheless the new S4 is impressive. What would be cool is if it could detect snow like conditions and switch to understeer (or rather more understeer given the link above) in a pinch. Mighty not make for the most predictable handling, but could be cool !
S4intheOC
04-24-2009, 12:21 AM
[QUOTE=VerrÜckt;23760730]I dunno, I kinda wrote this
Oh Snap! LOL, no but seriously, those are some well written articles sir. Very thorough and exceptionally descriptive. With regards to how fast the MTM RS4 revs: "The little red dash needle loses the race to the RS4’s forged crankshaft every time." I chucked to myself about having to make the necessary mental adjustments when driving a vehicle experiencing such a phenomenon. Additionally, my preconceptions about the B8 S4 are lessened and now I'm actually eager to check out this magical "torque vectoring sport rear differential". Thanks for sharing.
S4intheOC
04-24-2009, 12:42 AM
S4 = watered down RS4.. slower, worse handling, might as well buy a Lexus GS430 and hop it up.
Two completely different cars, not even close.
Ultimately I'd agree that given over all satisfaction of driving, the RS4 is going to be the superior choice. Not only will all your senses be pleased by the experience, but you'll have a car that truly has a unique and special place in automotive culture. I don't know if the B8 S4 will leave such a mark regardless of how much better the engine is than the outgoing V8.
Of course, in the end, much like Mr. Lieberman, I am a person who cannot drive a stock car and whether its the RS4 or B8 S4, the aftermarket will never support it to the extent that was witnessed on the B5 S4. With the exception of a 30K MTM supercharger, power gains are limited to basic bolt ons and hopefully a pulley/ECU combo for the new S4.
I say get the RS4 and if you ever have an insatiable need to drop 30K for the MTM setup, use it to build a GT turbo B5 S4 instead. At least that way you have 2 great cars for the price of one! And I'd be willing to bet that the GT car quickly becomes the favorite of the two. Boost is WAY more addictive than you think! :)
latebloomer
11-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Everyone is saying the rs4 is faster in a straight line? I would say the s4 is faster.
Stock rs4 are trapping around 103-104 and so far I've read reports that the b8 s4 is trapping around 106-107.
The b8 s4 is faster in a straight line than the rs4. With the new technology, the s4 probably handles better also, but we will wait to see the track times.
Trap speeds for stock rs4 is 103-104
Trap speeds for stock s4 is 106-107