Seems to me that the S4 has really fallen quite a ways from the car that S4 Audi rolled out as a MY 2000 to compete with the M3. I had a B5 and was all too happy to buy a B6 until I learned of no forced (Turbo) induction. That car (the B6) to me seemed like a step down at the time. And I pulled my deposit on the car and bought my first Porsche - albeit used (85 Targa) I kept the B5 until I reluctantly parted with it for an overseas job posting in 2006.
I've now owned three Porsches (85 Targa, 92 911 Turbo S2 - still have, and a 96 993 Twin Turbo - Daily Driver) and a 2005 M3 CIC (got rid of for my second Twin Turbo).
What say you guys?
11-13-2008, 11:50 AM
...for simiarly optioned vehicles.
11-13-2008, 11:54 AM
The new one??? Doesn't the M3 perform significantly better than the S4?
11-13-2008, 12:02 PM
I don't think this is such a bad thing, either.
It gives enthusiasts the opportunity to choose how much performance they want (to pay for).
Don't get me wrong. I love my S4, especially with the Stasis performance parts. For me, it made more sense to mod my S4 to my own liking than to buy an RS4 out of the box.
11-13-2008, 12:16 PM
11-13-2008, 12:31 PM
11-13-2008, 01:38 PM
11-13-2008, 01:59 PM
You missed the memo. When the B5 was introduced it could compete with the E36 M3 at the time. The iterations post B5 couldn't wipe the M3's ass. Hence my question: Has/when did Audi lose the plot with the S4?
11-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Not to be an assclown.....but how is it possible to say the "RS4 Franchise" "has taken off"? These things had and have often sat for very long times on dealer lots in Texas for sure. Can't speak to other parts of the country.
Sad repositioning........again IMHO. Audi killed the S4 with the B6 - again IMHO.
For that reason I have two turbo-charged, albeit, older 911 Turbos in the garage.
11-13-2008, 02:08 PM
11-13-2008, 02:08 PM
11-13-2008, 05:03 PM
11-13-2008, 05:04 PM
between common cars like the 335i and rare, gas-guzzlers like the M3 and C63.
11-13-2008, 05:34 PM
Most Audi's I see on the road are the 4 cylinder versions of the A4. My V6 A4 gets awfully lonely during my commute every morning.
Conversely, most BMW's that I see on the road are 335i, not the 328i. Somehow BMW is more successful in baiting people to upgrade to the more expensive model than their least expensive model.
11-13-2008, 05:48 PM
If they can sell it in the mid $40k's like the AudiWorld article says, they I say it will be competitive and compete with the 335xi.
11-13-2008, 05:56 PM
The only reason you see so many 335's on the road is because BMW (up until recently) subsidized the hell out of their leases. People can get into more car than they normally would be able to afford.
The Audi RS models are meant to be both the pinnacle of Audi performance and engineering and come with some exclusivity for those that want to pay the price.
Having standard, S, and RS models gives consumers a wider variety of models and levels of performance to choose from.
11-13-2008, 06:09 PM
11-13-2008, 06:19 PM
..for over the last 18 years, I've repeatedly seen more of the higher model 3-series on the road than the lower ones.
My observation has been the opposite for the A4. I wonder if the national sales #'s reflect this observation. Maybe it's just a local thing.
IMO, it's all a matter of smart marketing and pricing. BMW has been very successful in squeezing extra money from their consumers instead of getting the bare minimum.
11-13-2008, 06:49 PM
11-13-2008, 08:30 PM
more like the market repositioned and Audi has had to emphasize the RS to match the market.
11-14-2008, 03:06 AM
Fine............sure it may be. My point is that there was (2000-2002) a B5 RS4 that could absolutely destroy the M3 at the time. So to recap, in 2000 the S4 could compete with the M3 and the RS4 was head and shoulders above the M3 - not even close. Now we have the S4 no where near the performance of the M3 and the RS4 is just about at the performance level of the M3...........Audi has lost the plot with both cars, again IMHO.
11-14-2008, 03:07 AM
It doesn't. It is just disappointing to me in that the S4 used to be a direct M3 competitor and now what in the hell is it exactly???
11-14-2008, 05:20 AM
It just happens to have the "A" replaced with an "S".
The idea being that the S4 acts as a halo car for the A4 range, thereby enhancing its sporty image. Audi is in the business of selling A4's not S4's.
Whereas the next RS4 will be a very different car and obviously not an A4.
11-14-2008, 06:01 AM
11-14-2008, 06:08 AM
The sales numbers bear that out also. More people are moving to the 335, taking away sales from the M3.
For most drivers, the 335 offers more than adequate performance for the street, making the significantly more expensive M3 not really worth it to them.
You can find deep discounts on M3's sitting on various lots around the country.
11-14-2008, 06:36 AM
11-14-2008, 07:05 AM
bmw got way to close to the M3 with the 335i which is why alot of them are around. there was also a big tunning interest initially that went some thing like "hmm twin turbo V6... the B5 S4 was bad ass fast, so i'm in" needles to say it didnt work out as people hoped. But the 335i was still a great performer and way up there in power figures as a an upper level premium sedan (compare it with the A4 S-line)
This whole thing just prompted audi to adjust its S4 to match the 335i and its RS4 to match the M3, which works well for them as they still have the A4s as an entry model also the M3 is pretty damn expensive these days (MSRP) right?
11-14-2008, 07:50 AM
And hence low/no sales.........and they are sitting. Economy is not helping either.
11-14-2008, 08:01 AM
11-14-2008, 08:43 AM
Just where Audi needs to be with this car. No V8 to counter the M3. Supercharged to compete against the twin turbo. AWD to compete against the 335xi. And when the S5 goes to the SC engine, it will compete against the 335i(X) coupes.
11-14-2008, 08:46 AM
11-15-2008, 12:27 PM
have a nice, light I5 with 500 Hp than some heavy ass V8 with only 432 Hp.
11-15-2008, 12:53 PM
11-15-2008, 01:30 PM
As I am already on my Audi dealer's waiting list.
11-15-2008, 05:51 PM
Saying "the S4 has fallen quite a ways" is a strange statement, when the car that it is now seems to far exceed (in every way) the old B5 platform of 14 years ago.
According to reviews, it drives, handles better and is quicker than any previous S4 model ever made. Early reviews are even saying it is noticably better than the current available competition...
If comparing it against the M3, C63 then there would be a problem, considering its down over 100bhp compared to one of them. No matter, it should be compared to the 335 and C350. Audi has chosen to position their cars to stagger between the competition offerings. (ie. 335 < S4 < M3 < RS4)
Just imagine how great the new RS4 will be when it's announced next year if this new S4 is this good...<ul><li><a href="http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstlook/epcp_0811_2010_audi_s4_supercharged/index.html">http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstlook/epcp_0811_2010_audi_s4_supercharged/index.html</a</li></ul>
11-17-2008, 09:24 AM
11-17-2008, 09:27 AM
11-17-2008, 12:05 PM
11-18-2008, 12:36 AM
11-18-2008, 01:11 PM
you would have a car that far surpasses the M3. Same with the 135.
11-18-2008, 04:55 PM
11-18-2008, 07:14 PM
11-22-2008, 06:59 AM
to the rs4. it's just barely better then the b7 rs4, and it is a generation ahead of the audi. i expect the b8 rs4 will crush it.