I've been looking through all this year's ACNA minutes up to August, searched through my winter/spring/summer 2008 Quattro Quarterlys, and I can not for the life of me find a single mention of the change in the nominations deadline from August 15th to July 31st.
The reason I was looking is that I know that three people(at least), two of which who served on the ACNA BoD, two who've run in previous ACNA elections were excluded from the ballot and at least one did not know they were excluded until the ballot appeared in the Quattro Quarterly.
I also find it outrageous that the ACNA BoD, on September 2nd (go ahead and read the minutes!) passed a motion to "Set July31st as the agreed upon as the dealine for candidacy application by the Board of Directors as communicated by Dean Treadway" which is already loooong past the imposed deadline that was communicated to some of the excluded ACNA members that ran for the ACNA Board.
This smells of people trying to cover their tracks. There is no way that the BoD can legally change the dealine after it passed and use it to justify imposing the dealine in the first place. Also I have to remind people, that RRO explicitly states that for a board to "agree", the board has to have a montion/vote for the agreement to be official, and all motion/votes have to show up in the minutes of which there is no mention. Therefore the motion by Kent Anderson to set the date (as agreed) is ILLEGAL.
As a result this whole election is tainted! The only recourse the Board has is to recall this election and start over with a notice to the entire membership via a mailing or the Quattro Quarterly, not only of the date nominations have to be submitted to, but also the entire election process starting with how members can submit nomination papers.
Failure to do such has dire ramifications for the club which include (but are not limited to) the IRS yanking the club's 501(c)3. A recall is the only way this year's election can be declared "open, honest, and transparent".
I'm personally disgusted with this entire mess and now seriously question why I remain a member of the club.
Frustrated member #14959
10-24-2008, 08:56 AM
10-24-2008, 09:44 AM
10-24-2008, 10:33 AM
Yes, I'm one of the folks that was excluded from the nomination process since I sent my ballot in on the "old" deadline.
I only leared that I was excluded on the chapter rep call on Sept 3rd in the presence of many other folks. When I asked "Can someone explain the rational of the July 31st deadline?" Dean Treadway asked to call me after the call...which he did and explained that a 5-4 vote excluded Nick Pinto, Craig Leichty and I from the nomination process.
It was purely a politcal move by some members of the board.
Unless the membership is willing to recall the board or do a special meeting as outlined in the bylaws, I'm not sure how far we can get.
I can assure you that my membership (Kansas City Chapter) would be willing to sign a petition.
There are other more drastic measures that could be considered as well.
President KC Audi
10-24-2008, 05:27 PM
It seems everyone is complaining that the date was changed from August 15 to July 31 and that three potential candidates were excluded because they were unaware of the July 31 deadline.
From what I've discovered, the deadline date for this year has never been August 15. It has ALWAYS been July 31. I understand that in past years, the deadline has been August 15.
I received a copy of the <a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/10/24/2157816/ACNA%20Chapter%20Representatives%20Mtg%2C%207-02-08.doc">minutes from the June 4, 2008 Chapter Rep conference call</a>. These minutes were sent to the Chapter Reps by Dean Treadway on July 1, 2008.
Item 2 states that the deadline for applications for nominations should be at the national office by July 31.
After reviewing the list of email addresses to which this email was sent, it is clear to see that all the candidates who had their nominations rejected because they were received after July 31 were included in the emailing.
I'm not sure how they can claim that they did not know that the deadline was July 31. If they were on the June 4, 2008 Chapter Rep conference call, they would have learned at that time that the date was July 31. If they were not on the call, they should have known after reading the minutes from the June meeting that were sent to them by Dean Treadway on July 1. If they didn't read the minutes that were sent to them, they should have know if they were on the July 2, 2008 chapter rep call as the second item on the agenda for that meeting was the national elections.
It seems to me that all three candidates that were rejected had been notified that the deadline was July 31, regardless of what it has been in past years.
Could the ACNA national BoD have done a better job of communicating the deadline to the members? Absolutely. Do I feel that the three candidates that were rejected were cheated in some way? After what I've discovered, NO.
10-24-2008, 09:02 PM
My e-mail is SuffolkD (at) aol <dot> com
Thanks for your input.
Next to this "notice" how does the general ACNA member populous find out about this date change?
I'm not on a chapter rep list.
10-24-2008, 09:28 PM
Golden gate has Gordon as a candidate.
In the QQ on page 82 chapter news there is no mention of their candidate running for the ACNA election.
The Potomic / Chesapeake chapter makes no mention of Charlie Prietz, their candidate.
Glacier Lakes doesn't promote Kent in their Chapter News........
Even Alan in the Canada East report doesn't mention his candidacy.
So lets look at the NEQ (Northeast on page) 84:
"I would like to encourage all our members to vote in the national board of director elections.
We are excited to have Bruce Bradigan and Alan Bellavance running for national director seats.
These two candidates have helped guide the NEQ and Canadian Chapters over the years as board members, eventmasters, and volunteers.
They will bring extensive business backgrounds and experience in chapter development and non - profit governance to the national board. <b>Please vote for these two candidates.</b>
<snip next paragraph>
This is using National resources to promote their TWO candidates, each from different regional chapters. Last time I checked, NEQ was VT,NY and CT only.
Things are piling up here........
10-24-2008, 10:03 PM
I read it.
The title says something like June 4 minutes, but the the letter is undated.
Please forward me the E-mail you got if you're a chapter rep please.
10-25-2008, 06:54 AM
<a href="http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/10/24/2157816/Gmail%20-%20Fwd_%20Nominations%20fo...pdf">Click here</a> to view the email that was forwarded to me, as I am not a chapter rep.
You'll notice that all the candidates that claim they did not know that the deadline was July 31, 2008 were included in this email. Also included, was the originator of this thread, Peter Barada.
10-25-2008, 06:57 AM
I have my own opinions on the matter which I prefer not to make public.
10-25-2008, 05:34 PM
My E-addy linked to my account does work, could you please have the <b> Edit: original e-mail </b>copy forwarded directly to me?
If not, then I maybe should inquire with whom I am speaking with? <b>EDIT(if you're not a chapter rep, you can PM me)</b>
The .pdf version linked to, is an agenda copy, not the minutes/notes sent by word.doc which was the topic of the original discussion. (i see notation of a word.doc on page 3 of the .pdf but cannot link to it.
Agenda items can be tabled, their order moved or not be addressed due to several reasons.
I DO appreciate the additional info though. Thank you for archiving the .pdf.
I do see some different e-mail addresses than what I use to correspond with some on that list.
I do realize some people have different E-addys though.
10-25-2008, 06:09 PM
the addresses used in those Agenda notices.
Kris' is different (in QQ -page 85 - its email@example.com)
Peters' is slightly different (in QQ its @the-baradas)
Nick Pinto (in QQ) isn't listed as a chapter rep
Craig's (in QQ) is @audiclubna.org
SteinEke (in QQ) is listed as firstname.lastname@example.org just to notice another.........
Some of the "reps" as addressed in the .pdf archived Chapter Contacts have slightly different E-addys for a few of these guys too:
I'd be nice to have them all match to focus on how much time the notice actually was.
With different E-addys, I could actually see if someone didn't get the message in a timely fashion. Especially if the notice for meeting was 1-2 days away.
So let's further press on about the notice length:
Its either July 1 (if we go by this agenda .pdf, <b>one day before meeting on the 2nd</b>, which it is also noticed the July 2 date is moved UP from July 3 in your .pdf copy) which would be ~ 29/30 days, or its shorter.
Is less than 30 days ample time for notice, gather signatures, write a bio, and submission of an ACNA candidacy Nomination intent?
and keep in mind this is the ONLY notice of this election "deadline" prior to July 31 to what seems a handful (~46, two being Dean himself) of people compared to the public information channel which should be noticed to thousands of ACNA members who are not <b>on</b> chapter rep calls.
Furthermore, If I (as an ACNA member) sign-log into the members area of the ACNA to review the minutes prior to the Thursday, July 31 "deadline" date moved up from Aug 15, WHEN do I get to see the minutes posted? Before July 31?
Maybe I should ask when was the ACNA BoD minutes posted on the ACNA web - site in the sign in members area. Thankfully I remember my ACNA number, so its not a barrier to "timely" posted info to me.
<edited sig "scott and typo to ON (in bold)>
10-26-2008, 11:11 AM
Is it not the members responsibility to make sure National has their correct email address?
If someone wants to run, isn't it their responsibility to make sure they know the proper dates?
Isn't it their responsibility to write a bio? Does it take a freaking month to write a few paragraphs?
Seriously, these guys are acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.
10-26-2008, 06:02 PM
Let's see, the job of the nominations committee is "The nominating committee shall strive to maintain geographic diversity within the Board." And what have they failed to do because of nomination dateline shenanigans: exactly that!
What we see instead is a blatant attempt at consolidation of power by the same people and their cronies who caused the legal issues in 2006.
Grow up? So I guess you feel that ego-based power grabbing in a charitable organization is grown up. But then, it is a million dollar corporation, isn't it? And money does make people do some very strange things and, such as attemtping to brand their activities as rightful and in the best interest of all involved.
So, tell me, whose interests are being served by limiting the number of candidates? It would seem to me that the only answer is the candidates themselves. It sure isn't the member's interests.
Unless, of course, you serve such a candidate.
10-26-2008, 08:31 PM
You're not on the Rocky Mtn BoD, nor are you a member of the Chapter Reps.
So how did you come by this letter? I'm curious.
10-26-2008, 08:53 PM
The date was set, was distributed several different ways to everyone.
10-27-2008, 04:35 AM
Dates don't just 'get set'. Election deadlines should never casually moved and yet the Board of Directors never even discussed the subject until after the deadline had passed.
It was only when the motion was made and voted upon that the date was set and that took place on September 2, a mere 33 days after the deadline.
You might not consider it shenanigans, but I bet if the IRS moved the tax filing deadline, notified only the State District Attorneys and, by the way, passed this law on May 15 while making it retroactive, you'd be the first to howl.
10-27-2008, 06:38 AM
During the June 4 chapter rep call, the deadline date for nominations was set to July 31. During the July chapter rep call, the deadline date again was again stated to be July 31.
Three candidates submitted their nominations after July 31. The vote by the BoD in Septemter was to enforce the July 31 deadline.
After talking with my chapter rep, I learned that all three candidates that had their nomiations rejected were on the June and July chapter rep calls. Those candidates should have known the deadline was July 31, but for some reason they claim they thought the date was August 15, the deadline used in the past.
All the other candidates knew the date was July 31, why didn't those three. Do I want someone on the BoD who refuses to follow the rules and claims foul play when things didn't go their way? I don't think so.
10-27-2008, 06:40 AM
10-27-2008, 07:11 AM
10-27-2008, 07:42 AM
10-27-2008, 08:00 AM
Don't tell me it was Kasim!
So who was it?
10-27-2008, 08:30 AM
I saw a number of emails that showed that the three candidates who had thier nominations rejected knew the deadline date. I could have seen them from any of the candidates, and in fact, I saw emails sent by the other candidates and members of the ACNA BoD that confirms to me that the date was set and communicated to the members on the Chapter Rep call on June 4, 2008 and reiterated on the Chapter Rep call of July 2, 2008.
It is pretty obvious that you do not have a high opinion of either Kasim or Dean Esmail. However, until you can show me any sort of communcation that says the date was not July 31, I will stand by what I have seen and been told.
10-27-2008, 09:19 AM
Care to give full disclosure of everything that was sent by your contact?
Apparently, the appearance of impropriety bothers you less than even yielding the name of the person who sent the notes to you.
And you still don't understand the difference between 'setting a deadline' and having the board of directors vote on a deadline.
Why do you think that they suddenly needed to vote on the issue after the fact? Or why there were two votes instead of one?
And just for the record, it's not my dislike of any given person that providing my motivation. It's the fact that once again, certain people are manipulating the ACNA into consolidating power among the few. By allowing the Nominations Committee to properly perform their duties, it would give everybody in the club more choice. Clearly, the candidates on the ballot would not want that, some much more than others.
It's obvious that you have a pretty strong affinity towards the Esmails. I don't expect any amount of evidence would change your mind.
10-27-2008, 09:21 AM
You haven't identified yourself to us but you can call out Presidents & Chapter Reps like in your response below:
Lets be open and fair about these sources, and at least know with whom we are talking to about club stuff.
How can I make a fair decision based upon copies of things and secrecy about where things come from or with whom I'm talking to. I won't post your Identity here. "SOME" privacy is respected.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/acna/msgs/68.phtml">Quote from below in thread</a></li></ul>
10-27-2008, 12:38 PM
10-27-2008, 12:42 PM
If the date had been Aug 15 in the past, and through questioning I find out it has been later than Aug 15 in the past...........
Where are the BoD minutes motion to change the previous date to July 31?
-Scott<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/acna/threads/19.phtml#105">Where are the ACNA BoD minutes changing the dates?</a></li></ul>
10-27-2008, 04:38 PM
10-27-2008, 09:26 PM
even if the whiners keep up their yapping.
10-28-2008, 08:19 AM
I guess whining must have something to do with not tolerating people who break rules, abuse office, disregard ethics and operate not in the best interest of the club.
I'm sick of this nonsense from the people who have been entrusted with the operation of our club. Names are going to be named and this sordid tale is going to be laid out for all to see.
10-28-2008, 06:30 PM
10-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Seriously, we know ya' all are buddies out there.
so lets end the charade.....
If I was an AW poster or an ACNA member, who would I trust?
People who can provide documentation for their argument or just corroborate friends who post about whiners, lazy people, how much hand holding is needed, etc., etc.,
One agenda copy saved to an editable .pdf, people who won't ID themselves when asked (S4_Loki)and can't send original forwards of e-mails aren't who I'm going to trust.