I love the M4, especially the new models that are gas-piston operated, but .223 is damn near as much as .308 now. I want to buy a HK G3 and a Kimber Advanced Tactical Rifle this year too so if I went FAL they would all be .308. I'm gonna start hand loading so having all my guns in the same caliber will make things easier, only .308 and .45 ACP to deal with.
I know a ton about M4s but not that much about FALs, any recommendations on manufacturers to avoid?
01-23-2008, 08:43 AM
but I think he pretty much only lingers on AWOT.
If you had to choose a caliber...I would stay with 7.62
01-23-2008, 08:56 AM
And who really wants a carbine that weighs that much.
I think they're really two different purpose guns. The M4 is fast and light, you can lug it around all day without feeling its heft and it can corner exceptionally well. The FAL is a mass produced battle rifle. Its not really meant for CQB and if you try to make it light you'll end up with something not suitable for 7.62 nato.
01-23-2008, 09:05 AM
that is better put together then his factory HK91, but neither shoot to the same MOA as our ARs, even my cold shoots better. I am in pretty urban area, so right now my M4 with Eotech is my go to rifle. If I were at my parents in a rural area, I think it would be a SOCOM M14.
That way if I just HAVE to have a heavy round I'll just get the 6.8SPC barrel for it.
01-23-2008, 09:36 AM
I have an M14 and an M4.
Depends on situation I guess..range and power or portability. Hmmmmmm :)
01-23-2008, 09:43 AM
No matter how bad i want something of national match quality where I can snipe out to 600 yards without fail I think I "need" something shorter, lighter and faster.
My major disfunction is I WANT the M14 more than I WANT the lighter carbines. And on the flip side I want the AR-15 platform (especially the sleek and sexy, yet not all that fantastic Smith and Wesson MP15T) more than the Robinson Arms XCR.
And on top of all that all I really want for Christmas is a full auto P90 and 10k rounds of ammo and a $10k shopping spree to the pottery barn for targets.
But since I'm a civilian, not currently engaged in zombie battle, getting any full auto that isn't historical and isn't $10k+ isn't possible.
Dammit. So all in all after all my trash talk I might end up with a SW MP15T because its cheaper and I like the looks more than any other rifle other than the much more expensive M1A NM.
I'm a complicated buyer filled with inconsistencies and too much credit.
01-23-2008, 09:59 AM
Not that it is on the left side, but is this monstrosity of a rail. I need to shoot one though. Also the price point deters me right now. I could build up a really nice AR with a nice IOR Valdada scope for about the same price as the XCR.
01-23-2008, 10:17 AM
Its like their thought process is "hey lets use designs from a $300 AK47 but lets charge $1500 for it".
01-23-2008, 10:30 AM
I really need to shoot one though. Course I haven't ever had problems with my gas tube AR's fouling.
01-23-2008, 11:00 AM
...at the correct finger placement.
That tiny thing must kick like a mofo.
01-23-2008, 11:15 AM
01-23-2008, 11:37 AM
Unless the person is actually aiming, etc.
01-23-2008, 11:57 AM
The thought was that I would attach optics and have a long range 308 that will reach out and go the distance. I have put exactly 60 rounds through the weapon only to find that in my opinion it is a platform not meant for optics as it comes from the factory. It can be made stable by purchasing a new receiver but it defeats the purpose of buying the NM....you would have to re-glass the barrel and I am not up to that process.
It weighs a ton which makes shooting 308 out of it very easy....and with the irons I can get very nice groups at 200 yards.
I guess in the end it will become a safe queen or perhaps I will sell it later to make room for something else. For a SHTF weapon its weight and length make it a big no however it has gotten a few looks at the range and people sure do love to talk about the M1A.
oh....and the ammo is ridiculously expensive.
01-23-2008, 12:53 PM
Im going to catch hell for this, but IMO. And IMO only. All gas operated Non piston designs are crap. This includes the AR-15 (the last of the lofty gas operated non piston designs and Armalite quickly discovered the system was crap). I know alot of you guys like them, but I think there are many superior designs out there now which don't jam.
That being said, In the US, you gotta stick with 223 and AR-15 mags, cause we're so neck deep in the **** already there is no helping us now.
That being said, I'd get .308 over .223 anyday.
So of the options you listed... Get the FAL or better yet, since this is America the M14.
01-23-2008, 01:39 PM
01-23-2008, 03:14 PM
01-24-2008, 06:32 AM
Its okay. SHot it head to head against the Sterling AR180 and myself and the two others shooting with me that day also preferred the AR180. MP15 had a few feed problems but a shot of oil in the tube fixed that.. Little unnerving though. MP15 had a slightly better trigger feel, but the Ar180 had better sights and better ergonomics.
I've since added an Armalite 4X scope to my Sterling AR180 which makes it looks Uber-cool.
01-26-2008, 01:52 AM
Fulton Armory sells a great 1913 rail that fits into the dovetail in front of the rear sight. They're TONS better than the Gen 1, 2 & 3 mounts (which are useless). You could also do a scout type mount. It replaces the top hand guard. That said, though, you're right. The M1A/M14 does NOT make for a good optics platform. And take my advice, If you're gonna drop the coin on a Kimber Tactical, you'd best look at a Sako TRG-22 first. For the same money, you'll get a better rifle. The Kimber Tactical is a new rifle that has yet to be proven reliable. Oh, buy the FAL and DON'T do what Cameron did to his. here in the States, DSA is THE last word in FAL rifles, unless you happen to fall upon a true Belgian FN at a gun show.
01-31-2008, 11:58 PM
... FAL is a beast and goes somewhere with a purpose, M4 is what you want on a sling on your eighth hour of garrison duty. Totally different weapons, totally different personalities, totally different portability as was mentioned earlier in the thread...