ryoung
01-06-2008, 03:40 PM
S&W 625-2, 5" Mag-na-ported barrel and open sights
I had been carrying the Detonics .45 for about 15 years. Thankfully like most, I had no first-hand experience on the effectiveness of either the .45 ACP or specific loads, so ... I bought a S&W 625 and decided to take it deer hunting here in Pennsylvania using the ammunition that I had been carrying in the Detonics, Federal's .45 ACP 230 gr Hydra-Shok.
I'd be the first to admit that the .45 ACP is marginal for deer; and as a result, I limited my shots to 25 yards max, even though my reliable milk jug range with the S&W 625 and open sights is 75 yards. I also realize that the purpose of hunting is to KILL and of self-defense is to STOP, but draw your own conclusions from my statistically limited data with the Federal Hydra-Shok and these five deer.
Deer #1, walking:
... Range - 25 yards
... Hits - one broadside center chest
... Result - Ran 30 yards, collapsed, and died
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 3 seconds
Deer #2, running:
... Range - 20 yards
... Hits - 1st hit, broadside center chest, deer ran 10 yards
........... 2nd hit, broadside center chest
... Result - Ran an additional 30 yds and collapsed; required coup de grace
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 3 seconds
Deer #3, running:
... Range - 20 yards
... Hits - one broadside center chest
... Result - Ran 20 yards and collapsed; required coup de grace
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 2 seconds
Deer #4, standing:
... Range - 15 yards
... Hits - one frontal center chest
... Result - Ran 30 yards rather slowly, collapsed, and died
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 4 seconds
Deer #5, walking:
... Range - 25 yards
... Hits - 1st hit, broadside center chest, deer ran 10 yards
........... 2nd hit, broadside center chest
... Result - Deer walked ~400 yards and collapsed; required coup de grace
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 10 minutes
None of the bullets exited the chest cavity; and expansion was uniformly excellent, up to 1.1" !!
In my mind, the above qualifies Federal's .45 ACP Hydra-Shok as an 80% stopper on deer, not totally inconsistent with Marshall's 91% for the same cartridge on a human. [Though two of these deer took two hits each, and five isn't a statistically significant sample.] Note also that I took all of these shots within 25 yards, what I consider to be the maximum effective range of the .45 ACP on an animal the size of a deer; and I only fired when I had a clear chest shot at an ideal angle.
Though I started this project to evaluate the effectiveness of the .45 ACP Hydra-Shok in a carry gun, I really came to enjoy the challenge of close-range handgun hunting. Because of the .45 ACP's limitations, I've had to pass on all less than ideal shots, such as an opportunity at 17 yards at a quartering away buck with the largest rack I've seen while hunting. Primarily for this reason, I've put away the S&W for hunting and switched to the Freedom Arms .454 Casull with a 7-1/2" Mag-na-ported barrel, and express rear and gold bead front sight.
I've downloaded the Barnes 260 gr "Original" a bit to "only" 1700 fps with 30.6 gr of H4227. To date at up to 75 yards, the .454 has completely penetrated all the deer I've taken. No more 230 gr .45 at a puny 850 fps. Note that though I still have a few boxes left, the Barnes 260 gr is no longer available. When they're gone, I'll be switching to the Barnes 250 gr XPB.
Postscript ...
One year, I had two antlerless tags, and Deer #2 & #3 above was a double! I heard several deer running in my direction and prepared for them to cross a clear line of sight thru the trees and brush. I fired as the first deer entered the lane and quickly followed up with a 2nd shot. I can't believe how much I thought about in the next 1-2 seconds. ... I expected to have time for a shot at another deer, but I didn't have that much confidence in the stopping power of the .45 ACP and certainly didn't want to be trailing two wounded deer thru the woods. I did feel very confident, though, in the placement of those two shots, and decided to go for another. ... By the time I swung the muzzle back, a 2nd deer was already in the lane, so I decided to wait for the 3rd. I fired when she came into view, and then glanced to my left just as the 1st deer dropped, just about at the same time the 2nd deer fell about 20 yds short of the first. What an experience, including a long drag pulling two deer :-)
<b>S&W 625-2</b>
<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/images/625-right.jpg">
<b>Detonics Combat Master</b>
<img src="http://www.gunblast.com/images/WBell_DetonicsCM/3_A.jpg">
I had been carrying the Detonics .45 for about 15 years. Thankfully like most, I had no first-hand experience on the effectiveness of either the .45 ACP or specific loads, so ... I bought a S&W 625 and decided to take it deer hunting here in Pennsylvania using the ammunition that I had been carrying in the Detonics, Federal's .45 ACP 230 gr Hydra-Shok.
I'd be the first to admit that the .45 ACP is marginal for deer; and as a result, I limited my shots to 25 yards max, even though my reliable milk jug range with the S&W 625 and open sights is 75 yards. I also realize that the purpose of hunting is to KILL and of self-defense is to STOP, but draw your own conclusions from my statistically limited data with the Federal Hydra-Shok and these five deer.
Deer #1, walking:
... Range - 25 yards
... Hits - one broadside center chest
... Result - Ran 30 yards, collapsed, and died
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 3 seconds
Deer #2, running:
... Range - 20 yards
... Hits - 1st hit, broadside center chest, deer ran 10 yards
........... 2nd hit, broadside center chest
... Result - Ran an additional 30 yds and collapsed; required coup de grace
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 3 seconds
Deer #3, running:
... Range - 20 yards
... Hits - one broadside center chest
... Result - Ran 20 yards and collapsed; required coup de grace
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 2 seconds
Deer #4, standing:
... Range - 15 yards
... Hits - one frontal center chest
... Result - Ran 30 yards rather slowly, collapsed, and died
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 4 seconds
Deer #5, walking:
... Range - 25 yards
... Hits - 1st hit, broadside center chest, deer ran 10 yards
........... 2nd hit, broadside center chest
... Result - Deer walked ~400 yards and collapsed; required coup de grace
... Time from shot to stop - estimated 10 minutes
None of the bullets exited the chest cavity; and expansion was uniformly excellent, up to 1.1" !!
In my mind, the above qualifies Federal's .45 ACP Hydra-Shok as an 80% stopper on deer, not totally inconsistent with Marshall's 91% for the same cartridge on a human. [Though two of these deer took two hits each, and five isn't a statistically significant sample.] Note also that I took all of these shots within 25 yards, what I consider to be the maximum effective range of the .45 ACP on an animal the size of a deer; and I only fired when I had a clear chest shot at an ideal angle.
Though I started this project to evaluate the effectiveness of the .45 ACP Hydra-Shok in a carry gun, I really came to enjoy the challenge of close-range handgun hunting. Because of the .45 ACP's limitations, I've had to pass on all less than ideal shots, such as an opportunity at 17 yards at a quartering away buck with the largest rack I've seen while hunting. Primarily for this reason, I've put away the S&W for hunting and switched to the Freedom Arms .454 Casull with a 7-1/2" Mag-na-ported barrel, and express rear and gold bead front sight.
I've downloaded the Barnes 260 gr "Original" a bit to "only" 1700 fps with 30.6 gr of H4227. To date at up to 75 yards, the .454 has completely penetrated all the deer I've taken. No more 230 gr .45 at a puny 850 fps. Note that though I still have a few boxes left, the Barnes 260 gr is no longer available. When they're gone, I'll be switching to the Barnes 250 gr XPB.
Postscript ...
One year, I had two antlerless tags, and Deer #2 & #3 above was a double! I heard several deer running in my direction and prepared for them to cross a clear line of sight thru the trees and brush. I fired as the first deer entered the lane and quickly followed up with a 2nd shot. I can't believe how much I thought about in the next 1-2 seconds. ... I expected to have time for a shot at another deer, but I didn't have that much confidence in the stopping power of the .45 ACP and certainly didn't want to be trailing two wounded deer thru the woods. I did feel very confident, though, in the placement of those two shots, and decided to go for another. ... By the time I swung the muzzle back, a 2nd deer was already in the lane, so I decided to wait for the 3rd. I fired when she came into view, and then glanced to my left just as the 1st deer dropped, just about at the same time the 2nd deer fell about 20 yds short of the first. What an experience, including a long drag pulling two deer :-)
<b>S&W 625-2</b>
<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/images/625-right.jpg">
<b>Detonics Combat Master</b>
<img src="http://www.gunblast.com/images/WBell_DetonicsCM/3_A.jpg">