Without ADS it doesn't use any of the ADS options. There is a chart somewhere in the last few weeks showing the changes in ads for steering / handling depending on profile and how it changes depending on speed as well. The non ads profile was like a straight line somewhere in the middle. I would say drive the ADS in Dyanamic and Comfort mode, then drive the non and see what you prefer.

Without Drive select it is like any other car a standard 16.3:1 steering ratio, standard gas charged dampers, and "normal" accelerator and transmission characteristics.

You can opt for a sport package which includes the sport suspension, but it is no different than adding the sport suspension option of past years.


Perhaps your question is what Drive Select mode will be closest to a car without Drive Select?

I'll assume for now that answer is "auto", but I'll bet a Drive Select car in "auto" will not feel the same as a non-Drive Select car since the system adapts as you drive.

A couple charts to help illustrate.

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/14154/a4_ads_suspension.jpg">

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/14154/a4_ads_steering.jpg">

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4b8/msgs/10979.phtml

and

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4b8/msgs/10978.phtml

I am not sure how scientific they are, but better than nothing.

It's funny people will spend $1500+ labor and no warranty on coilovers and only get 1/3 of what ADS is offering, but I shouldn't really be shocked. These are the same people who won't spend $40-50k on a "4-cylinder" but will spend $60k on a V8. Imagine how upset they'll be when a $65k V6 S4 rolls out in the next couple years.

It starts with the sport suspension as base (springs and roll bars), then has the adaptive dampers as the graph below indicates will be able to have higher rebound and compression damping than the sport suspension alone.

Tell me if I have this right on the suspension graph:

1) Damping map elect. controlled: ADS
2) Sport suspension: sport pkg
3) Standard suspension: stock no sport pkg

Question: is #1 for both Sport and non-sport with ADS or do I have the whole thing wrong?

The ADS lines, in red, define the range of adjustment that the system has from comfort all the way up to dynamic (presumably). The ADS comes with a sports suspension (springs, roll bars) except with variable dampers.

From everything I've read ADS builds off of the sport suspension. The red lines on the graph I believe represent the upper and lower limits of the ADS suspension system. i.e. comfort and dynamic. "Auto" would be if the area between the red lines encompassing the other color lines was shaded.

The shaft that we are getting here is if you order a Sport package or S-Line &amp; ADS there is no discount for the already included sport suspension. However the sport suspensions of old were only a $250 option and I could easily see Audi just skipping this "discount". FWIW S-Line is $450 less than on the A5 and they are argeuably identical upgrades.

and an ADS-equipped car should really feel different from one with just the sport suspension.

Normally - I would call it a bunch of fluff and skip it. But having done back to back to back laps in their demo 3.2L A4's, it truly does make a difference. Sitting in pit lane, I whipped up "standard" on the individual setting via MMI (and man is it better than iDrive) so that I could compare "comfort" (pussy), "individual" (regular shocks) and "dynamic" (sport). I was truly surprised at how good sport setting was. Wouldn't call the 3.2 a lightweight track car by any stretch but ADS really kept it buttoned down well and the steering was so good I didn't notice it which would be the ultimate compliment I could pay it (at least at track speeds). Standard wasn't bad but not great and the lap with "comfort" was what you'd expect. The true surprise is "auto" setting. You are surprised by this ultra quick, one-finger steering at slow speeds but it tightens up immediately and there was no lag or drama hitting the apex at Turn 9 at whatever my turn in speed ended up being (was busy - didn't look at the speedo that particular second), on the gas WFO for the exit, down the back straight @ 90 mph then on the brakes lightly for Turn 1 (a fast sweeper at Summit Point). The steering never felt different during all of this - just nailed down and very accurate. Certainly not overboosted in any situation at speed and not really heavy anywhere either. Hope that helps some. BTW - I still hate automatics no matter how smart they are. The Tip would hang onto a gear too long coming out of the Carousel and I found myself slapping the lever back myself for Turns 7 &amp; 8 simply because I knew I wanted 3rd regardless of what the damned TCU thought was appropriate.

I also thought ADS was hype, but it really does give the car split personalities that are very noticeable.

You get adjustable shocks/dampers along with Audi's version of variable ratio power steering - this is additional/different hardware than just a traditional power steering rack and traditional gas charged shocks (Bilstein?). The transmission software is adaptive no matter what and the throttle mapping changes according to what ADS tells it to do. I'm assuming that without ADS, you just get the standard throttle mapping. Remember, in most modern cars now, you have a rheostat (dimmer light switch) rather than a physical throttle cable so rather than have a standard map, ADS provides variable mapping depending on what the car thinks you want.

w/ADS vs no sport w/ADS vs sport alone. The consensus is ADS is built upon much of the sport vsrsions of the hardware and is augmented by by all the adjustable and actuator bits.

Steering, engine and transmission mechanics/electronics are the other three parts of the four sytems contained and controlled in ADS.

Is it a trade-off tuned for more comfort/control, with diminishing returns or actually penalties to performance once damping force gets as high as the sports suspension alone?

Unfortunately though, you there's no break on the sports pkgs with ADS even though ADS has many of the same components. Somewhat of a double dip IMO. (though I understand that the smallest part of the cost of the Sports pkgs are the beefed up springs and shocks).

As damping rate gets higher the variable dampers have less rebound damping force either by engineering design or simply as an inherent characteristic of the damper itself. (Is that better or worse I honestly do not know.)

There's more info on suspensions on bike forums than the car fourms. :-)

Here's a snipit from a random bike page.

"Too much rebound damping slows down rebound and causes the front of the bike to pump down over bumps. Too little rebound allows the front to bounce back too quickly reducing control."

And another snipit from Sport Rider...

<img src="http://images.sportrider.com/tech/146-9604-tech-01-zoom.jpg">

"If you direct your attention to the right side of the traction versus rebound damping curve, you will note that at high rebound damping, traction has suffered. This is due to the wheel not being able to follow the ground simply because it can't respond quickly enough. The suspension compresses as it hits a bump. Then, it can't follow the ground (return to its original position in the travel) fast enough after the crest of the bump to maintain traction. When this is excessive it is called "packing." Somewhere between these two rebound damping extremes, traction is at maximum."
"Quite often riders have mistaken ideas about how much damping should be used. They think the faster they are (or the faster they want to be), the more damping they need. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, after a certain point, traction, control and ride quality (plushness) are all sacrificed. "

Where are the guys from Stasis? They can probably answer this one no problem.<ul><li><a href="http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9604_tech/index.html">http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9604_tech/index.html</a</li></ul>

within the extreme end of the spectrum if it was that bad?

and it can only be desireably tuned with the variable dampers. Again... just a guess.