I have an A6 3.2Q Avant now and am considering getting the new B8A4 3.2Q. However, after reading through this forum there seems to be people complaining that it is underpower and slow. But looking at the performance figures it seems that it is on a par with the 330i, and no one ever complain that car is slow. Then there are people who complain that it is slow compare to the 335i. True, but most cars would too. The point is I have never ever felt my A6 was underpower during the last 2.5 years so the chance of the A4 feeling underpower is slim. Of course it is very subjective but my point is that 0-100km/h in 6.1s is pretty respectable.

let the posers have their bimmers.

of the few that are complaining haven't even seen the car, much less driven it. The S will be more comparable to the 335 (as it is with the A5) as much a few people don't want to believe it. In that perspective, you sure get a lot for the money with Audi. I'd rather take an 'S' over a plain 3 series anyday. Audi is not underpowered, and IMO offers more selection. Where is BMW's comparable model to the 2.0t...

(Oh, what's that? They don't have anything other than the 220bhp 6cyl and 300bhp 6cyl...)

It takes an Audi "S" to beat out a "plain 3 series". What about the Audis that are priced within the same price range as the "plain 3 series"? It just isn't a fair comparison to compare a $55,000 V8 equipped S5 against a $47,000 6-cylinder BMW. It seems that the only way that Audi can compete is to compare the Audis against cars that cost $8,000+ less. Audi gives you less for the money.

BMW's comparable model to the 2.0t is the 328. That makes sense because they are virtually the same price. But wait... the 328 beats out the 2.0 t, so folks here compare the 328 to the Audi 3.2, just so the Audi can compete. Sad, really sad

Is it really about beating? It's about getting the most features that are important to you as a consumer for the right amount of money IMO. I like how you base the S5 at 55k when we know it starts at 50,500. Not such a bad deal when considering even in base form, it comes with options that the BMW doesn't come close on.

The line-up as you perceive seems skewed. Audi has more engine options, and more models for the consumer to decide on. If you look at the engine output in each segment, I see an advantage with Audi over BMW.

Audi____2.0____3.2___S___RS
BMW__________ 328__335__M

Besides, the 3.2 in the A5 is respectable at 5.8sec to 60 and wasn't created to 'light the world on fire'. It's the standard level car for Audi's mid-coupe segment, nothing more, nothing less. As far as I know, I haven't seen the 265bhp A5 reviewed against the 220 bhp BMW yet, have you? I also don't recall the 328 setting the world on fire either... Maybe it's just me.

They make the same rediculous statements over and over.

And what do they currently drive? BMWs.

Enough said.

Audi____2.0____3.2___S___RS
BMW___328____335___M___CSL

"They make the same rediculous statements over and over.

And what do they currently drive? BMWs.

Enough said."

- Why are you making it personal? Enough said

the fact that you (and others)repeatedly post the superiority of BMW motors on an Audi forum when you drive a BMW and don't own an Audi.

What is "personal" about that?

It's a fact. Not a personal slam.

Now, you may have thought I was suggesting that many BMW owners are loudmouthed pricks with nothing better to do than post drivel and FUD on an Audi site.....But I wasn't.

I may have thought it, from time to time....

But I wasn't publicly suggesting it.

I really enjoyed my 2-year stint with my 2.0T. it was fun, stylish and reliable. However, I didn't want to get another B7 2.0T. I wasn't thrilled about the sound of the FSI engine and wanted something smoother with some power upgrade. The 3.2 quattro 6-speed manuals are very hard to find and since I was leasing again, the low residual value (11percentage lower than a 335i) meant that I would have to pay more monthly for a slower car with less interior room on a soon-to-be replaced platform. Also, Audi didn't offer leases on Euro delivery cars. I would have been crazy not to go with the 335. If I leased a new B7 2.0T with the same options right now, my monthly payment would probably be higher than what I'm paying for this Bimmer.

Having said all this, I would like to find a way to come back to a B8 A4 in about 3 years (June 2010). With 2 kids, I am thrilled about the additional interior space and the new driver oriented cockpit. I also love the new proportions (longer wheelbase and hood, shorter front overhang) and bette weight distribution.

My only problem is that it looks like the 4-cylinder version is going to be the only competitive model again. I don't know if I can go back to the diesel idle of the 2.0T after a BMW inline-6. All I, along with Spoonie G and others, are asking for is a competitive V6 engine offering at the same price point as the competition. People are not going to pay S4 prices to get a car with comparable power of a G35, IS350, or 335i. We all know that with a 4.5" longer and 2" wider body, the new B8 A4 is going to weigh more than before. Audi is putting a V6 engine in the car that offers only 10 more hp and zero more torque than what they put in the B7 3.2, a car which has been totally ignored as a sport sedan by the automotive press.

Because if they did, you'd have to publically admit that both cars have pluses and minuses, which isn't on the agenda.

Its far easier to continually limit discussion to "but the bimmer is FASTER OMGZZ!!" because that's just a simple function of stats..there's no refuting that.

To hell with all the OTHER things the audi does WAAY better.

<move along now, nothing to see here...>

at least current models - yet.

That's what everyone should do.

"BMW's comparable model to the 2.0t is the 328. That makes sense because they are virtually the same price." Huh? I just did a quick build on both Audi's and BMW's website and here is what I came up with:
2008 A4 2.0T quattro automatic $38,775.00
2008 BMW 328xi automatic $45,220.00
2008 A4 3.2 quattro automatic $43,400.00
(All comparably equipped: metallic paint, sport, convenience, cold packages, premium sound, bluetooth, ipod connector, etc.)
How is a $7000.00 price differential "virtually the same price."?

I think the b8 will be extremely competitive. The b8 will offer so much more with little price increase. granted the hp level is a little low, but everything else is class leading, such as interior room, luxury interior and very price competitive.

The common thread from several AW posters is that Audi does not offer value for the dollar when compared to BMW, solely based on horsepower and 0-60 mph acceleration times. These posters continuously point out that BMW offers more attractive leasing plans than Audi; however, the poor financial performance of BMW, of late, clearly indicates that subsidizing leases for sales volume is not a sustainable strategy. To many purchasers leasing never factors into the decision calculus.

BMW and Audi both produce high quality products in the marketplace with overlapping and divergent attributes. Audi, in spite of some posters' beliefs, produce highly competitive vehicles-not every Audi owner is concerned with the ultimate 0-60 mph machine.

If I really cared about maximum acceleration I would purchase an Ariel Atom for roughly the same expenditure!

Also, something affecting all European makers is the sinking value of dollar against the Euro. I expect the B8 to cost $1000-1500 more than a comparable B7.

I drive a BMW. My next car will likely be the Audi a4 because of all the other attributes. You know it's funny, for many years BMW fan-boys have always said that the 0 to 60 times don't really matter. Now that they have the 335, that's all they can talk about. Forget about the ugly exterior and sub par Buick type of interior layout. I can say that, because I drive a 2007 530 and have owned two BMW's previous. I remember how BMW used to be, very driver focused interiors, with nice conservative exteriors. I just can't get used to the new BMW generation auto's. The new b8 looks amazing and the interior is what a luxury German auto is supposed to look like. With the new 40/60 awd split and dynamic drive, the Audi awd will be class leading or at least compete extremely well. Who cares about going 0 to 60 in 5 seconds, if that is such a big deal than buy a Mitsubishi evo, or suburu sti.

With how the US Dollar is doing in world currency markets, I would expect a hefty increase in the US on that basis alone. Our fearless leaders in DC may step in to stop the carnage as the election nears - but who knows.

mileage and insurance to be? I mean geeze... Audi's current engines are enough. We have this mindset of gotta go 0-60 in 2 seconds when twenty years ago we were all working with 190hp engines. Time to come back down to earth. The Audi V6 is more hp than most people will ever need or use on a regular basis.

what area are you thinking they're going to be competitive in? 0-60? 1/4 mile? 0-100-0? Braking? Slalom? Interior quality/design? Exterior design? Total sales? Resale values? Lease rates?

Overall, of course they'll be competitive. But for some narrow-focused individuals, it won't be because it won't blow the doors off the car in the next lane from stoplight to stoplight.

Fit and finish, BMW isn't even close. And performance wise, Audi can make them as good and better than anyone. BMW still has the best handling but a go cart is light and quick in the turns to, I'd still love the uber luxury of Audi. The pinnacle of "luxury" sport sedan.

Audi is exploring building a U.S. plant, which would reduce cost. BMW did this, and so did MB. I hate to say it, but as an American we don't really take pride in our work, the way some other countries do. We are a mass market, not necessarily, a quality driven market. I've been germany and japan, german engineers bar none superb, quality is huge, same goes in japan, hell even a janitor takes more pride in his work in japan than most American's, totally different cultures, and I would be worried about quality in U.S. plant, i know, i know ... flame suit on.

It's not so much auto union guys, I'm sure they work pretty hard in those plants, it's the top down, management, and U.S. profit and bottom line only thing that matters mentality, companies aren't driven to build quality, if you give them garbage ingredients you'll get a garbage product.
I'm sitting in a Mustang as a rental car, and I'm just shaking my head, just cause a car is cheap doesn't mean it needs to feel cheap, but hey we know here in the U.S. you don't have to build it well, just market it well, and people will buy it. Oh ... wow, this roof lining feels like a 2 year old could pull it apart.

Oh ... well ... you get what you pay for.

It's management practices, plant facilities, supply chain, engineering, etc., not the line worker! Toyota (and many others) has been pumping-out hundreds of thousands of top quality cars from the U.S. for years. In fact, they export many of these back to Japan and elsewhere abroad. Last time I checked the Mustang was not designed, engineered or produced by any of the non-domestic manufacturers. You present no information (dare I say data) to compare car quality/reliability of your referenced Mercedes and BMW's made in the U.S. vs. those made in Germany. Your point is invalid!

Namely, W. Edward Deming. He research/principles formed the basis for most best practices we have in quality management today e.g. six sigma, quality engineering...

what's amazing is that many U.S. manufacturers utilized Deming's theories/practices to great effect for WWII production (and with mostly inexperienced female line workers) then all but abandoned them after the war (when the men came home). Japan, obviously working with a "clean slate" and an open mind, more than embraced Deming. The rest is history.<ul><li><a href="http://www.managementwisdom.com/weddechofqua.html">Deming and Toyota</a></li></ul>

Keep saying that Audi isn't about horsepower or acceleration long enough and it begins to sound like an excuse, like compensation, like these are the same guys who say that size doesn't matter and that baldness is really a sign of virility.

At the end of the day size does matter to a certain extent and baldness is just baldness and I bet anyone who is bald [or small] would in their heart-of-hearts rather have hair and be big.

Yes Audi provides a better all around package but that is no longer enough of an excuse to justify being smoked by a bunch of $20K rice burning grocery haulers.

I personally don't need 400+ hp but 300-350 would sure be nice in order to better accelerate out of the canyons where I drive everyday, or to pass on the freeways without having to trigger the kick-down button. I don't want more power because some Nancy in his new IS350 has more but because I want a fuller, more complete driving experience and I want it from Audi.

Considering that everyone else, including the freaking Americans now can do it, then Audi should be able to do it [should already have done it in all truthfulness] and do it without having to pop for the price of an S4 or a S5.

$2,000 difference in base form.

My numbers are from edmunds and since you didn't show any type of price breakdown, no one knows what options you chose for each vehicle.

Here's edmunds info with price breakdown:

A4 2.0t
MSRP National Base Price $32,300
Optional Equipment $7,575

PNZ Audio Navigation Plus $2,100

PPX Convenience Package $2,100

PBS Sound Package $1,000

WPX Premium Package $850

PAW Cold Weather Package $775

Premium Paint $750
Destination Charge $775
---------------------------------
Total with Options $40,650


BMW328xi

MSRP National Base Price $34,300

Optional Equipment $8,675

Premium Package $3,250

Navigation System $2,100

Logic7 Sound System $1,200

Cold Weather Package $850

Xenon Headlights $800

MET Metallic Paint $475

Destination Charge $775
-----------------------------------
Total with Options $43,750

That's a difference of $2,900. I'd love to see how you came up with your $7000 number. A $2900 difference is about were the 2.0t should be in relation to the 328xi. I'm sure that the xenon headlights are a part of the premium package so the real difference is $2,100.

"I drive a BMW. My next car will likely be the Audi a4 because of all the other attributes. You know it's funny, for many years BMW fan-boys have always said that the 0 to 60 times don't really matter. Now that they have the 335, that's all they can talk about. "

- I knocked BMW when they had a 225hp 330i. If BMW is screwing up I'll speak out on it. Currently the BMW interiors suck. I'm an equal opportunity basher :-)


"Forget about the ugly exterior and sub par Buick type of interior layout. I can say that, because I drive a 2007 530 and have owned two BMW's previous. I remember how BMW used to be, very driver focused interiors, with nice conservative exteriors. "

- I agree, The 5 series interior is a boring buttonless plasticfest. I've even said that on a BMW board.


"I just can't get used to the new BMW generation auto's. The new b8 looks amazing and the interior is what a luxury German auto is supposed to look like. With the new 40/60 awd split and dynamic drive, the Audi awd will be class leading or at least compete extremely well. Who cares about going 0 to 60 in 5 seconds, if that is such a big deal than buy a Mitsubishi evo, or suburu sti."

- let me repeat;

I personally don't need 400+ hp but 300-350 would sure be nice in order to better accelerate out of the canyons where I drive everyday, or to pass on the freeways without having to trigger the kick-down button. I don't want more power because some Nancy in his new IS350 has more but because I want a fuller, more complete driving experience and I want it from Audi.

Keep saying that Audi isn't about horsepower or acceleration long enough and it begins to sound like an excuse, like compensation, like these are the same guys who say that size doesn't matter and that baldness is really a sign of virility.

At the end of the day size does matter to a certain extent and baldness is just baldness and I bet anyone who is bald [or small] would in their heart-of-hearts rather have hair and be big.

Yes Audi provides a better all around package but that is no longer enough of an excuse to justify being smoked by a bunch of $20K rice burning grocery haulers.

I personally don't need 400+ hp but 300-350 would sure be nice in order to better accelerate out of the canyons where I drive everyday, or to pass on the freeways without having to trigger the kick-down button. I don't want more power because some Nancy in his new IS350 has more but because I want a fuller, more complete driving experience and I want it from Audi.

"the fact that you (and others)repeatedly post the superiority of BMW motors on an Audi forum when you drive a BMW and don't own an Audi.

What is "personal" about that?

- I never said that BMW is perfect. I bash BMW as much as I do Audi. What does me driving a BMW have to do with anything? I fail to see your point.

Here's the deal. I'm here to talk about the Audi A4 and the cars in which it competes against. Who drives this car, or who drives that car doesn't mean anything to me. I'll leave crap for the papparazzi or the tabloids.

but I do. So that's why I had a B7RS4 which I sold for a R8. My A6(or A4 soon if it's big enough) is for everyday driving, which I have no interest to race everyone, with the exception of some BMW drivers who thinks they own the road.

Amen brother!!!

You know, I don't think you'll ever "get it". The only negatives you stated were about power, to quote:

"Yes Audi provides a better all around package but that is no longer enough of <b>an excuse to justify being smoked by a bunch of $20K rice burning</b> grocery haulers."

So you admit that to you horsepower is god. We're making progress.

Again, if you think that the difference between 265 and 300 horsepower is that staggering, again we'll never see eye-to-eye.

Besides myself, others here have clearly explained that that when you build a car, its a hand-off between different attributes for those manufacturing dollars. Its YOU that fails to comprehend.

We understand that you want more power...really, we do.

I said it's the American mentality and comes from the top down, the guys on the line, can only build what they are given to work with.

But, that will change in the next 50 years. Bottom line, is America's old principles obviously aren't the America of today, so, with that said, who cares. The Greeks learned much of what they know from the Egyptians, that didn't stop Alexander The Great from conquering Egypt.

taken from edmunds, there isn't anything called a premium package for the Audi

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/bmw/3series/100814244/options.html?action=1&amp;x=43&amp;y=28

328xi 2008

Base $34,300
Nav $2,100
Premium Pack $3,250
Logic7 Sound $1,200
Cold Weather $850
Xenon $800
Sirius $595

Total Price $43095


http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/audi/a4/100882881/options.html?action=1&amp;x=111&amp;y=23

A4 3.2 Quattro 2008 $37,250
Nav Plus $2,100
Conv Package $1700
Cold Weather $550

Total Price $41,600

These cars have the exact same options, at this point. So, it seems the pricing strategy is different for Audi and BMW, Audi offers you more standard and this increases the base price. BMW offers you less , for base price, probably so people can get in and say I have a BMW, not realizing adding options to get equivalent optioned Audi will cost you more.

So, with that said, your entire argument thus far, has proven false, not only that you made up options for the Audi that don't even exist.

Like I said the A4 3.2 compares to the BMW 328, if the BMW 325 still existed it would compare to the A4 2.0t.

Thanks for playing and get your facts straight.

Perhaps some drivers are simply incompetent,

I'll say one thing BMW's lease subsidizing is alot better than Audi's, however, price a 3.2 is very similar to 328, i just priced 2 cars out with same thing nav + and sound system, + xenons etc, the 3.2 came out at 41,800 the BMW 328 was 43,000, the base price of the 3.2 was higher, but you also got more things standard. And that's the main difference between Audi and BMW pricing in the U.S. the base BMW will be cheaper, but also comes with alot less than the base Audi, and ultimately they are priced very close when optioned out.

A base S5 is 50,500, a 335 coupe, base price is
40,800 to equal what the S5 has stock, you have to get the following options

Premium Package $2550
Sport Package $1100
Spork package with wheel tire upgrade to 19",
requires Sport package $1000
Cold weather package $750
Sirius satellite radio $595

$46,795

Now include the fact that S5 has V8 and more than 60 HP, and the 335 coupe price advantage, doesn't seem so realistic. But of course, if you don't want any of the options above, yes, you can a cheaper 335 which offers you the BMW driving experience, but because the accrutrements are equally as important to me as the drive experience, and hands down fit finish interior of Audi is heads above BMW, I easily decided S5 was the way to go.

So, see everyone doesn't think like you. Yes, you'll see a ton of BMW's, BMW subsidizes and wants to be more mass market, Audi wants to sell more cars, but that doesn't necessarily mean making an Audi available to everyone but building a high quality moderately priced car that distinguishes itself. And they Audi judging by their sales numbers are well on their way with this philosophy. Audi for me all day long, even, if it cost mew a few thousand more, the difference between $50K and $55K really doesn't matter that much to me, if it did, I wouldn't buy an audi, I'd look at honda or toyota, which offer almsot as many features as both, a good drive, and about half the price.

although the S4 is closer to 400HP than the 335. Of course, add a chip to the 335 and it's close to the S4's power output if not more, probably can get 380HP out of chipped 335. But, sorry, it doesn't matter that much to me, the 335 feels so bland, great driver, and all, but it's like saying I can get 370HP out of Subaru WRX, the car itself as a package just doesn't do it for me. Great handle, great speed, overall package, looks, quality of interior, craftsmanships, usability and functionality, fit and finish, just don't match up to me. So, Audi all day long. Have you sat in the new S5, the car feels like it's $100K, and the only higher upgrade would be an Aston Martin. Go see for yourself.

YOu argue with us about 335 competes against 3.2, when Audi owners know that the S4 is the model intended to be the 335 competitor not only that but so do the car magazines. Finally, you have a preference and that's ok, but how can you bash a car you've never driven. Go sit in the new S5 and tell me what you think about Audi afterwards, and remember the A4 will be built on the same platform and interior quality and drive dynamics.

Reading comprehension anyone?

I said;
"I personally don't need 400+ hp but 300-350 would sure be nice in order to better accelerate out of the canyons where I drive everyday, or to pass on the freeways without having to trigger the kick-down button."

How does that equate to me having a problem with traffic? Having to trigger the kickdown button isn't what I consider to be a problem. inconvenience yes, Problem no.

Which is what I did.

Now getting back to your numbers.

The first thing is that you added the "Logic7 Sound" as an option on the BMW but didn't add "Sound Package" for the Audi. Any reason on why you did this? Adding the "sound package" to the Audi adds $1,000 to the price. BMW's Premium pack also comes with blue-tooth. Bluetooth is a $500 option on the Audi. So that's another $500 added to the price of the audi. Now were up to $43,100 for the Audi which makes the Audi more expensive by $5.

Although you've compared vehicles with different equipment levels. You've proven the point that the BMW 328xi is closer in price to the 3.2 than the 2.0t. There's only a $5 difference when comparatively equipped.

However, I'll bet the farm that the new S4 will not be priced within $5 of the 335 (when comparatively equipped).

Either way It seems as though the new S4 will be priced somewhere in between the M3 and the 335's price. If we're to use the S5 as an example, then the S4's price will be closer to the M3s price. But that's not going to stop folks from here from comparing the new S4 to the 335. When it comes to S4/S5 comparisons, people here are going to choose the BMW that they can better compete against (335), not the BMW that is closer in price (m3).

Audi doesn't have to cost exactly as BMW does, they give you more car. the 2.0t starts 32,300, the A4 2.0t is not the 328 competitor so who cares. The 328 starts at 32,400, but once again, you are trying to compare models based solely on price, but they aren't meant to compete, the 2.0t was competing against the old 325, and you are right Audi base is more expensive, they give you more, dude, what the h*ll BMW doesn't define, Audi.

Your entire 1st paragraph unfavorably over-generalizes the American worker.....not to mention the credit you give to Japanese janitors....assuming they are really Japanese (big assumption). You did attempt to give a little credit to the American line worker in the beginning of the second paragraph (a little).

Go test drive a Toyota Camry, that's more American (design, parts, production input) than the comparable Ford, GM and Chrysler cars.

Speaking of German (over)engineering, you didn't bring-up anything about the sub-par (yet expensive) reliability issues seemingly inherent with these $40K+ cars. You were wise not to mention British, French, Spanish and Italian (I'll leave out the Iron Block) quality and reliability.

As I said, your point would be more valid if you compared German and Japanese cars produced there vs. German and Japanese brands produced in the US. I think you'd find very similar quality and reliability ratings.

The fact that Americans are purchasing Toyota's, Honda's and Nissans by the millions and causing mass layoff's at domestic brand plants seems to counter your comments about "American" buying preferences. Look-up the data for top selling vehicles in the US in 2006, then subtract the trucks and rental fleet car sales; now tell me what "Americans" are buying (hint: Camry's and Accords)?

I do agree with you about the quality feel of German cars, especially Audi, that's why I drive them despite the ridiculous reliability gremlins.

My reading comprehension is quite adequate, thank you.

Vehicle acceleration is correlated to torque and not horsepower. Please review Newton's Second Law of Motion for reference.

that the '02-'05 330xi has 225 hp, 214 ft.lbs torque. now many B7's have been dyno'd anywhere from 215 - 230 in stock hp and torque but thanks to the turbo and long stroke motor these numbers are achieved at lower revs (torque @ 1800) than the Bimmer (3500) which is where you'll feel the more immediate acceleration, especially in climbing and/or at elevations. I believe both cars have similar 0-60 times around 6.8-7.0.

I'd say that acceleration is the last thing anyone should be concerned about with the A4, especially when you can get huge gains with a $500 chip if you so wish. The only true advantages the BMW's have are in handling and smoother running engines.

Audi places a different emphasis on some design parameters than BMW, for example. Audi engineers are very capable and could simply mimic BMW design with much success; however, Audi has certain attributes that contribute to "Audi-ness." The typical individual participating on the AW forums does not necessarily represent the typical purchaser of Audi, or for that matter, BMW. Audi, for example, has seldom produced cars, for a given class, that excel at 0-60 mph times.

There are many premium car buyers that simply do not care about 0-60 mph or who has more horsepower. Many of the buyers would never even consider cross-shopping between various brands.

CONGRATS!

we're not refrigerator shopping here. I'm sure I'll see about a hundred 3-series owners on the way home that completely agree with you :)

I think it's ludicrous to say that the match-up of models as listed by AaronG79 with Audi costing more , combined with Audi's much worse residual value is good news for Audi AG or AoA. Are they in the business of shrinking their market share?

I believe the point's been made here that when you option comparable Bimmers with Audi's apples to apples, they're very close in price. Compare the price of a 328xi optioned the same as an Audi 3.2Q.

I guess my point is, the exclusitivity (who wants to be another BMW wanna-be), the interior and the quattro are worth a few more bucks. $5K is not an applicable point in this conversation.<ul><li><a href="http://www.automotive.com/2007/12/audi/a4/compare/index.html?vehicle[1].year=2007&amp;vehicle[1].make=BMW&amp;vehicle[1].model=3-Series&amp;vehicle[1].trim=1261;35;3;8&amp;vehicle[2].year=2007&amp;vehicle[2].make=Mercedes-Benz&amp;ve

What Audi offers is FAR BETTER!!!

I gave BMW and the 335 a real chance to impress me, and while it did (somewhat), the S5 shocked me at how good it is. So it's a few thousand more, but it offers enough to take care of that few thousand difference and then some. No regrets.

on your beautiful car!

The M3 is faster. much faster
414hp/295 ft lbs &gt; 300hp/300 ft lbs

For speed you want High Reving / high horse power engine.

Torque is what you feel, but it's not going to necessarily make you go fast.