View Full Version : There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics...


John J Szobocsan
10-09-2007, 01:28 PM
Mark Twain popularized the above quote; however, that quote is reflective of the current environment of this forum. Several writers are fixated with straight line acceleration times. They continuously whine about the apparent lack of horsepower from most of the current Audi engine line up.

The Autospies writer of the attached table, too is fixated on straight line acceleration, and concludes that the BMW is superior to the Cadillac and Mercedes because of the BMW's superior 0-60 mph, 0-100 mph, and 0-120 mph times. However, the three cars post similar 30-50 mph acceleration times.

Most forum posters resident in the real, physical world with traffic lights, traffic and less than ideal road surfaces, a few; however, insist on living in dreamland. Therefore, 0-60 mph and beyond times are virtually a meaningless comparison of a car's true, real world performance. The more realistic measure is in-gear acceleration times. In the U.S. 30-50 mph are probably one of the more meaningful statistics regarding a vehicle's real world performance.

Seldom do most drivers accelerate from 0-60 mph, and virtually all drivers never accelerate from 0 to 100 mph, let alone to 120 mph. Consider, even if one commutes daily on a tollway, the number of times one accelerates from 0 to 60 or 70 mph. Most likely, the number is relatively small and measurable on one hand. However, think of the number of times that the typical driver accelerates to pass another car, merge into traffic, or move through an intersection under yellow. In-gear acceleration is more important in day to day driving and it is directly affected by the shape of the torque curve, and the amount of torque generated, not horsepower.<ul><li><a href="http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent001/335-comparo/SNAG-1119.jpg">Autospies performance chart of BMW 335i vs. Cadillac CTS vs. Mercedes C350</a></li></ul>

06A8
10-09-2007, 04:30 PM

Oo.et.oO
10-09-2007, 05:04 PM

Big D
10-09-2007, 05:06 PM
seems like the EXACT same things were being said about the S4's when they were twin turbos. you know how that turned out...

Oo.et.oO
10-09-2007, 05:12 PM

jwj
10-09-2007, 05:31 PM
My A4 with the GT28rs runs well and love the efficency of the car. Now waiting for the 3.0 TDI turbo. HP and torque! Can't wait for the software upgrades on that too...

coolnesh
10-09-2007, 05:34 PM
u mod one car then you gotta mod the other too... apples to apples is whats should be compared... what you do after market is your own business.

Oo.et.oO
10-09-2007, 05:46 PM

nirad
10-09-2007, 08:56 PM
but first they will figure out a way to fool-proof the ECU to stop people from modding, blowing a turbo, and then getting it repaired under warranty.

Bob58
10-10-2007, 04:55 AM

John J Szobocsan
10-10-2007, 05:50 AM

tboned
10-10-2007, 06:07 PM
A little hard to stuff under the hood, but some small mods would do it.<ul><li><a href="http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/4528">http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/4528</a</li></ul>

tboned
10-11-2007, 03:26 AM
Yes...the 335 may beat the S5 in acceleration...feeling like a 5 dollar econobox inside the whole time.

Put them both on a track, and the S5 will "virtually" win every time, as soon as the 335 overheats and has to pit.

Spoonie G
10-11-2007, 06:54 AM
I'm sorry but similar 30-50 times doesn't mean that they have similar performance.

Similar 30-50mph times are OK if all you are going to do is reach 50mph and never surpass it. But what about 50-70? The other cars are still behind the BMW during 30-50mph, and once you get past 50mph the BMW's advantage will only increase.

It seems that the only performance measure that the other cars can even come close to the BMW is 30-50mph. Which IMO is a meaningless statistic by itself (just like 0-60). You have to look at the whole picture and not just one small part of it.

John J Szobocsan
10-11-2007, 01:49 PM
<ul><li><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2007/gb20071010_765240.htm">The Quandt family facing its past...</a></li></ul>

Spoonie G
10-11-2007, 02:04 PM
All factories were converted and forced to build weapons by the government. BMW, MB and Audi all had to do it. I'm not sure why you are singling out BMW when at the same time there were plenty of other makes that were involved. What next? Blame BMW for the war?

I though that we were talking about 30-50mph times?

Quattrings
10-11-2007, 05:15 PM
Although this review is pretty pointless. Hopefully they at least measaured the 0-60 times accurately.<ul><li><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7JkYNUE9gU">Famous_6-100ths of a second faster lap (335)</a></li></ul>

Oo.et.oO
10-14-2007, 08:58 AM

Oo.et.oO
10-14-2007, 09:01 AM