is that porsche has already killed the R4, the RS-TT (which was always on shaky ground- with all due respect to 2953), and that it may be circumcising the V10- i.e. decreasing max hp.

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Have to wonder how the upcoming Panamara will impact Audi's S and RS models as well...

I would like to see VW and Audi part ways although that is probably not likely anytime soon.

he prefers to control it rather than worry about it having its own mind and will. besides, he can profit from it. it's why we'll never see a more powerful variant of the R8 than the V10. and its the reason why DSG is not being offered in the A5/S5, but is in the 911 despite the fact that audi developed it 5 years ago LOL (regardless of long or trans engine layout). go ahead, someone prove me wrong. plz.

the porsche family "owns" a good part of germany and is very powerful. in much the same way that the rockefellers (that's right, remember those guys? they were before my time too...) play lots of behind the scenes shaking and baking in the usa. we don't hear about it because they don't want us to. and there are others.

i mean, come on people. dozens of people saw it coming before we did. how the hell does the largest car company in the world get owned by one a fraction it's size otherwise?

that's where i admire the bmw guys. they've been able to keep it together. i applaud bmw as a company.

and there's more history to dual clutch.<ul><li><a href="http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission3.htm">PDK.. Porsche Dual Klutch</a></li></ul>

Other random info about dual clutch transmissions:

It was invented in 1939.

Bugatti gets theirs from Ricardo Co in the UK. Due to the high price of Bugatti's dual clutch system, it not economically feasible for 'inexpensive' cars like the R8 and 911's.

Cima produces the seven-speed DCT for the Koenigsegg CCX.

Getrag is working on a dual clutch system for high power mid engine vehicles with the goal of handling 750nm.

FSI went in to the 911 last year.

and since when does it seem like i am making an official porsche or audi AG anouncement? :)

and uses of VW's worldwide structure, and materials (to be used for Porsche's cars) in exchange for design services. Since then, the two companies have worked together and have depended on each other.

Louise Porsche (brother of Ferry Porsche, daughter of Ferdinand Porsche) married Anton Pieche. Years later, their son Ferdinand Alexander Piech was Porsche's largest share holder as well as the chairman &amp; CEO of Volkswagen. Prior to the VW position, Piech was with Audi. It was feared that Volkswagen (whom Porsche has relied on for decades) was subject to hostile take overs by various car makers (Daimler, BMW, Renault). This would have been bad for VW's major holder at the time, which was the lower state of Saxony.. out of fear that thousands of jobs could be lost. In a way, it is to each players advantage that VW find a stable owner.. hence Porsche stepping in with a measly ~$3bill purchase of shares. Since then, VW's stock has risen significantly (&gt;doubling) and by 2007 they bought more in order to prevent foreign entities from buying and breaking up VW (Saxony + Porsche have just over 50%). Looking back, Porsche got a great deal on the price. BTW, since 1972 Porsche Ag had rules to prevent members of the Porsche family from management positions in the company. 1972 is when Piech left Porsche and went to work at Audi (till 1992).. and then VW after that. Piech seems to be the common thread between Audi/VW/Porsche.

"The goal of Piech, 70, may be to bring the two companies back together and run them as they were originally founded."

Audi is VW's cash cow supposedly.. with net profits up 63% last year, on about $1.77bill in sales. Piesch.. in his supervisory role.. would be smart to tell the CEO of VW to keep Audi. BTW, the latest CEO of VW started in Audi.

...I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Speculation that Porsche would not allow the R8 to continue beyond this model/version because it competes with the 911.

We'll see what happens...

this means they'd planned it a year ago, at least- since a supplier and testing have to be completed, way before porsche owned the majority of VW.

further- from what i hear on the 911 forums, it may sneak in to some of the last 2007's as a running change this summer.

and here is the rub. this means that 75% of porsche model offerings will get both DSG and FSI about 2 years (as it looks now) BEFORE audi gets that combo into as many models (by percentage).

you can argue all you want that porsche has fewer models than audi to put these into and so it is easier to raise that percentage. but what does that say of audi- who has been planning the R8 longer than that? they say officially- too expensive to develop for the V8, etc....but i think there is more to it.

like is said. these are the facts. what you want to conclude from them re: the porsche influence on poor audi is your own choice. i think it is too bad for audi. here we have the A5 and the car will have a tiptronic. riddle me that.

the boxster will likely get DSG before the A5 does. we'll see.<ul><li><a href="http://autonewsguide.com/news/911-Refresh-Porsche-adds-direct-injection-and-DSG-for-2008/">DSG and FSI to 911</a></li></ul>

or are you REALLY going to get an R8?


with every post it becomes more obvious.

but in the business world i do not think people would see piesch's style and motivations as a patriarch who wants to reunite his car family.

where was he and the porsche family when audi was in the craphole back in the 80's? how and why does he show up on his white horse to reconcile audi into the porsche "family" just when audi is on a roll and producing a car that is superior to the 911?

again, there are many opinions on the matter. makes for good conversation in person- but difficult on a forum :)

but that is how i feel about things anyway.

Powerful moderator you are.

Here is a warning for you: Stop posting bull**** without it having substance.

You get so upset when people call you on it, the V10 being faster than an M6, the weight being under 3200 pounds, options, e46 m3's costing 65,000, etc.

It is becoming more and more obvious YOU post without confirming and jump the gun with so called "inside information."

Porsche has not announced it nor is it available for order yet. Wait until it is announced.

i never tried to get you banned. i sent you a standard warning. and then a second. you came close. don't worry, if there had been a third you WOULD have been banned. i think the warnings worked because you took a self-imposed two week vacation. i wish i could say "welcome back" but i can see you haven't changed. and we'll be watching you over there. and try to be nice to people whose first language isn't english.

btw- i only share with others what i hear from my sources. that is as much as anyone can do. sorry if they aren't 100% right; the earlier people get it the more likely it is to change and i always share what i know, that's what most of us do, that's all we CAN do. you are either:

very angry because the R8 didn't meet your expectations

or

are a closet audi hater

oh. and pipe down mister.

Hahahaha, do you know when spring break is? I was in cabo, for a week not two. Ya, I set my schedule around YOUR warnings.

Don't worry, I take your warnings are seriously as your posts. The board owner seems to be rethinking your moderation, so warn all you want lil guy, you need to ask for permission to do that anyway.

I like your either or thinking, one or the other without exceptions huh? Must be that way, since YOU posted it, it isn't as if you have been wrong before...

go over and try me.

btw- i am leaving AW's bandwith out of this henceforth.

Interestingly, previous to that Daimler Benz had majority ownership of Audi for a period of time. Piech was moving up the ranks at Audi for 20 years from 1972 until 1992 before his career brought him to VW for the remaining years as I mentioned already. While at VW he sure didn't cut Audi off. Instead, the A4 was brought out.

At Audi, sales were good till the mid 80's. In the late 1980's/early 90's Audi sales were crushed in the US by the 60 minutes report on unintended acceleration despite the case not appearing in Europe. "Independent investigators concluded that this was most likely due to a close placement of the accelerator and brake pedals (which americans weren't familiar with), and the inability, when not paying attention, to distinguish between the two." In the mid 90's, Audi's sales took off again with the A4.

Audi's problems in the US may be viewed as being caused by US media following some operator errors. Anyhow, VW paid the price. As I already mentioned, Piech eventually made his way to the top position of VW (with his successor also coming from Audi).

..much better than 'assuming'.. cause you know what they say about that... maybe you don't.

other than posting some random facts i offer a more cohesive response.

piech's grandfather was f. porsche, the founder of porsche AG. porsche AG came about much later than VW AG. porsche actually attempted to sell it's first auto- the 356 through VW dealerships (and i believe thousands were sold). soon porsche's son, anton, would be running volkswagen's main plant in the 1940s and, after that, anton's son, piech, was given a job at audi where has been (with few exceptions) for about 33 years.

as VW has expanded and acquired, porsche has consolidated and solidified it's core. the latter has built up a big bank account relative to its size as a company. however, it is not enough to develop all the other platforms it has in mind, including the inevitable reengineering of its core car- the 911. it tried unsuccessgully to share the touareg platform with VW but it still cost porsche lots of money becuase VW only shared some components, making the adaptation of the plaform to the cayenne offensively expensive.

through all this, piech has moved up at audi, very shrewdly. he had to do it that way becuase there is a lot of suspicion there and resentment (of the dual interest an individual such as he could represent) from such notables as martin winterkorn.

the R8 was the drop that spilled the bucket.

ps- ignorance, when properly applied can resemble the truth remarkably well.

in VW to thwart a future hostile takeover.

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Do you have ADD or alzheimers? There's got to be some reason why you manage to make mistakes so consistently as well as ignore what people have already mentioned.

they will here too. srsly.

it's YOU who doesn't know what he's talking about. they'll probably ban you on here first.

You said I was banned, I said I wasn't. You were joking? I guess I didn't get it, srsly.

Chilling bro