BMW has just published the new M3 specs: 414hp/295 lb-ft. Doesn't it sound familiar? However, the kicker is the following: curb weight - 3476 lb. (euro trim). This is pretty stunning. Granted, it will not have the mid-engined dynamics, but with similar power/weight ratio, good balance, less parasitic losses (no awd) and at half the price (projected at 60K), this thing becomes a very tempting proposition. I know. Exclusivity and all that jazz, but I am more into performance than collectability. Incidentally, I am still amazed that this RS4 competitor is 500 lb lighter. Audi needs to do something about their porkers.

the new M3 actually weighs less than the 335i coupe (3582 pounds). the weight savings cost money though and this will jack up the price. it will likely start at above 60K and i expect that a loaded car will push 70-75K.

that will put it in RS4 territory. (re: weight i am not sure about audi's official figures for the RS4. a lot of debate on that. i am not sure if audi incorporates the 165 lbs of estimated driver weight into their measurements, but it is an "old platform" audi too.)

the S5 weighs 3594 lbs. barely above the 335i.

consequently, if the RS5 weighs about the same as the S5 and makes at least 425 hp then it will be an interesting car.

in comparing it to the R8 you bring up a good point i've brought up myself. the R8 will be faster and handle better than the M3, of course. but the question is, will it be 35K faster and better handling? and can the balance be made up by the undoubtedly better curb appeal of the R8? that's a question only the buyers can answer....


ps- i still think the R8 engine makes a bit more than it claims it does. but that's just me.....

figured it would be around 3900-4K lb. however, i think comparing the rs4 to m3 is silly on the principal that one has 4 doors and the other has 2.

There are faster cars (in a straight line or on a track) for much less than the M3 even.

It's a repost but you can download the press release here.<ul><li><a href="http://www.bmwusa.com/Vehicles/futurevehicles/newm3/default">release me!</a></li></ul>

of passanger and luggage. Take it out and the curb weight is 1580 kg=3476 lb.

However, we are not talking here about a Japanese stripper or American torque monsters. This is a car with lots of pedigree and refinement to boot. Yes, BMW interiors are not as good as Audi's but it's no GM quality either. I have to say that it's quite stunning to me that BMW can deliver a lightweight performance coupe while AUdi requires a super-expensive one-off to get close. The Audi supercar weighs only 30 lb less, despite the all-aluminium structure. No wonder it costs twice as much. A comparable Audi (RS4) weighs 500 lb more. 500!

The intial reports on RS4 had it at 3600-3700 (Euro version). By the time It came stateside, it weighed in at 3969 (MotorTrend, Road and Track).

and you have the money to buy a R8, there's a much better choice than the M3 - the 997GT3. It's got all of the dramatic boy racer looks (nostrils, gills, wings and other animal parts such as balls), it has 415 hp/300 lb-ft weighs nearly 500 lbs less than the new M3 and has far more exclusivity. Anyone who knows cars understands that the GT3 is the "best value" street/track Porsche. The GT3 will kick the M3 and R8's butt and have every post pubescent teen boy thinking that you're just the coolest and luckiest guy alive.

Let's get real here, if performance is your main objective, the R8 is a really poor choice. If an equal balance of performance, panache and exclusivity is your goal, than the R8 is way up there.

what a mess that rear view is and the hood of the car is a conglomerate of bad design elements. OTOH, it's going to absolutely kick the crap out of the RS4 in performance.

the M3 has traditionally been pretty hard edged. i don't know if this new one will be any different. that means not near as good a daily driver as the r8 which, at the push of a button can also become very hard edged.

&lt;http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2070322.001/page/1/
country/gcf/lang/eng/bmw/new-bmw-m3-v8-engine-in-detail&gt;

"with various technological concepts and principles, production
processes and materials carried over from the Formula 1 engine to the
drivetrain of the new BMW M3.":

Let's hope with more success than in F1 ;-)

"And a further point is that the high-speed engine concept allows a
light drivetrain and very short transmission ratios."

"the high-speed engine concept with its M-specific features allows
use of the optimum transmission and final drive ratios"

Marketing spin for saying that torque delivery is still rather soft?
Where have we heard this before? Oh yes! Early 2006...in an Audi.

"Numerous technical achievements - many of which hail from motorsport
- give the new Audi RS 4 its unique class and character. These
features include the high engine speed concept now being introduced
for the first time in a production Audi, innovative FSI technology,
as well as the latest generation of quattro drive with asymmetric/
dynamic distribution of torque. Developing a maximum output of 420
bhp, the V8 revs up to a speed of 8250 rpm (http://www.cartype.com/
page.cfm?id=759&amp;alph=ALL&amp;dec=ALL)"

"The cylinder crankcase, in turn, is made of a special aluminium
silicon alloy, conventional cylinder liners being replaced by hard
silicon crystals. The iron-coated pistons, finally, run directly in
the uncoated, honed cylinder bore."

Let's hope it stands up to the sulphur in our fuel - unlike some
previous BMWs.

"The relatively short, forged crankshaft is likewise very stiff in
terms of its flexural and torsional qualities, but weighs only 20 kg
or 44 lb."

Let's see what happens when the ricers throw in the light weight
flywheels without harmonic dampers.

"The exhaust manifolds are made in an internal high-pressure
remoulding process, the desired contours of the stainless-steel pipes
being shaped from inside under pressure of up to 800 bar. The result
is extremely thin walls measuring just 0.65-1.00 millimetres (0.0256-
0.0394") in thickness, optimising flow conditions with minimum
resistance, light weight, and optimum response of the catalytic
converters.
Exhaust emissions are cleaned by no less than four catalysts and the
engine naturally complies both with the European EU4 standard and the
US LEV 2 requirements."

How long will these last? What will it cost? I think the RS4 also meets this standard, but not sure.

"To provide this highly efficient control, each cylinder is monitored
and controlled via the spark plug to determine any knocking tendency.
At the same time the system checks the ignition for smooth and
correct operation, and recognises any misfiring."

Special plugs?

Does it have in-block electric water pump like some other new BMW engines? Oil pressure gauge? Oil temp gauge? Water temp gauge? Dipstick?

"Brake Energy Regeneration ensures intelligent engine current
management concentrating the generation of electric power for the on-
board network on the overrun phases and the application of the
brakes. This serves to charge the car's battery without tapping on
engine power and, accordingly on the energy contained in the fuel
burnt. As long as the engine is running under power, on the other
hand, accelerating and pulling the car, the alternator generally
remains disconnected."

This is clever - so long as no weight adding items are used.

As for 50/50 weight distribution, that can be a mixed bag. Here's why: if you place equal weights at each end of a vehicle, it turns in slowly, but also loses control gradually and is easy to gather up. A no holds barred sports car may have 50/50 weight distribution, but ideally it is centralized so the car can change direction quickly and easily. However, that same trait can cause the car to lose control very quickly and be harder to recover. Not always something you want in the hands of people who buy into the marketing ;-) I say this, owning both a car with a setup like the BMW (Alfa - 50/50 with weight at each end) and a rear center bias car (Ferrari). The Ferrari has limits so high it can be scary if you have a grasp of physics. The Alfa on the other hand is a pussycat on the limits and makes you feel like a hero.

me think thou protests too much -

The new M3 is going to be a RS4 butt kicker. After the M3 becomes available, the only reasons to buy an RS4 will be if you hate the M3 looks, live in a snowy environment or if you need 4 doors (all good reasons). But performance won't be the main reason.

How do I know this considering no one has driven the new M3 - because the twin turbo 330 coupe has approximately the same level of performance as the current M3 and and the current RS4 isn't so far apart from the current in overall performance.

http://www.autospies.com/news/BMW-335i-blazed-0-60-in-4-8-seconds-Almost-beat-RS4-14022/

their marketing spin machine is a thing of beauty even if their cars aren't;-)

As you can see in the quotes below, the Edmunds car was not stock - BMW slipped them a ringer.

"This post seems to have selective amnesia. The referenced Edmunds test of the 2007 BMW 335i coupe mentions that a dealer purchased coupe was compared on the dyno with the one delivered by BMW. The dealer purchased car was substantially detuned from the BMW delivered vehicle. Edmunds states "...But wait, there's more: While Steve's motor gently tapers off as rpm exceeds six grand, our mill continues to make more power until it tops out at 279 at 6,295 rpm, at which point Steve's 335i lags 19 ponies behind. Notably, our car maintains its advantage for the remainder of the rev range..."

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=717346

If you combine this with the fact that the detuned BMW 335i has significant overheating problems, it is likely BMW will have to further detune the 335i to get it not to melt down. Luckily this can be done invisibly through firmware and consumers like you and me have no idea. I am sure changing the tuning of the car yourself voids all of the warranties. What I am saying here, is that the car you I get is not the one tested by Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=120061/pageNumber=1

If it is my money, I would save $10,000 and get a fast, reliable car that doesn't "..crawl pathetically back to the pits..." after only 4 laps....

I hope you realize you're comparing the 335i's quickest time to the RS4's slowest time, that the 335i tested on Edmunds (Edmunds got this time) was quicker than a stock E92 and that the RS4 has achieved 0-60mph in 4.3 seconds.

This also means, just to let you know, the 335i is as quick as the new M3 (by your logic). The new M3, according to BMW, goes from 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, like the RS4....

It WAS a press vehicle and it was compared to a vehicle owned by Steve Harrison. The Dyno comparison essentially proved that BMW sent out a souped up press vehicle that Joe consumer would not be buying. "

As always, autolies just loves spreading trash talk and controversy.

Audi will find more get-up-and-go for the RS4.

Do you doubt that the new M3 will be better handling, quicker, faster, have better brakes and with hundreds of lbs less of mass, be more effective than the porky RS4 on a road course? C'mon, the M3 is the pride and joy of BMW's M division - you think it's going to be released without the tools to beat up on one of it's prime competitors.

I also think it will give any Porsche short of the GT3 and turbo fits - give the ugly dog its due.

assuming you need your car for all weather duty. if you drooped the quattro the weight would be almost the same

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/104484/badboyz.jpg">

then we compare, otherwise, bmw can continue with their over-rated slogan of "ultimate driving machine"..

"Audi needs to do something about their porkers"