The discussions of value vis-a-vis 911s of every persuasion are largely moot, IMO.

The R8s exclusivity, performance and looks will make it more rare than even a Gallardo or F430, making it more of a bargain supercar than anything else in the eyes of the public.
If value were the overriding factor in the purchase of a performance car, then the 911TT would obviate the need for ALL Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, etc. Taken a step further, the Z06 would obviate the need for the 911TT, for that matter.

Fortunately for the sake of choice, value is often a SMALL part of the equation for purchasers of these types of vehicles.

IMO, of course. ;-)

420 hp for 120K is no bargain. 420hp no longer qualifies for "supercar" status

The Z06 is a bargain supercar.

The R8 will be exclusive for two reason:
1) because Audi will limit the number produced in the short term, that is until they understand the market potential for this car and then they'll build one for every person who can afford it.
2) no other sports car will have the level of refinement that this car has and it really looks the part of a "supercar" - for those who value looks, panache and comfort over absolute balls out performance, th R8 will be the car to have. But there's a whole bunch of folks who get a hold of 997tt's and think that 485 hp is just a nice starting point for the tuners.

why? it is based on the porsche pricing strategy, which is very aggressive. if the R8 had been priced per traditional audi strategy it would cost 10K less.

case in point. if the new M3 comes out costing 80K fully equipped it will illustrate this even more. that car weighs about the same as the R8 and carries the same firepower. it wil be close in performance. and i do not think that the handling of the R8 will be so superior that it will justify 30K more.

the only thing that will justify the 30K more will be exclusivity and sheetmetal design. that's it.

though i still plan on getting one i will not deny that i am paying a premium for such things. and i'm sure the new M3 driver i face off with in a few months will grin knowing that.

but. in the end. i'll have an R8. he won't. sounds snobby... but i don't mean to sound that way.

Ya know, there are plenty of BMW drivers who will say "I have a M3, he has an Audi". M3 drivers tend to be very aggressive about their opinion of Audi's. The R8 has a lot to prove (on the tracks) before that even begins to go away. No?

the R8 is an outstanding driving machine. i look forward to an M3, C4S (X50), R8 driving test- if they ever have one. if not, only a few months before the new M3 is driven.

i think it'll be close between the two, in most objective ways that is. the R8 will likely be wee bit faster.

further, re: your bimmer to audi sneering, i'm sure plenty of honda accord drivers look over at my S4 and roll their eyes at it as a ridiculous waste of money... one person will always justify his or her decisions their own way.

you should hear the garbage the Ferrari drivers doll out to Porsche drivers. Until we can afford a Veyron, I guess there's no end in sight.

wait, Veyron's are probably sneered at by F-22 pilots

If they priced it like other Audis I'd be interested. I bought an S4 because I got more than the M3 for similar money, and loved chasing down even more expensive 911s even more after investing in some inexpensive mods.

Now I'm buying a Porsche because it's a better value. Crazy world...

I still acknowledge that it's probably a good move for Audi. They need a good halo car to help take the brand upmarket.

when they want the ultimate driving experience. Is a Ferrari a better car than the Porsche? Depends on how you define better. If you ever came to one of our little exotic car meets, you'd see people pull up in anything and everything, and there is little "garbage" being doled out other than some good natured flack for all German cars coming in black, navy, silver, grey, or white. Very monochromatic:)

In the end it often comes down to the insecurity of the owner - in either camp. People looking up, not liking that they aren't on top. And other folks who must be at the top simply so they can win every status challenge.

I bought a Ferrari because it was the closest thing I could get to an Alfa in this country - and actually dislike the public image of the car - being that other people assume you must be rich and/or a jerk to own one. Would a Porsche have been an acceptable substitute based on driving experience? No - I'd have to be brutally honest and say I like and would stick to my A3 when it comes to the German driving experience - if only because the Boxster/Cayman seems a poor value - and I have to think value when buying a widely available commodity item. In any case, the Boxster/Cayman lack the mechanical drama compared to an Alfa, let alone a Ferrari, even if fine daily drivers. Some folks would rather not have the drama;-)

To me the R8 is very much a hybrid exotic - combining exotic looks, exotic construction, exotic production numbers, electromagnetic dampers, dry sump engine, etc, and yet offers an ease of use found in most any two seat sports car. There will always be faster cars. Enjoy what is unique about each car and don't always compare specs. What makes a car special isn't the stats IMHO. That leads to dissatisfaction.

When I drive my Ferrari, or another person's exotic, it is the car and the experience of the machine that I am enjoying, not the status it may confer upon me. There are always people looking to challenge me/the car, and it can get old to be driving around in everyone's benchmark when you're trying to get into a zone with the machine. It's a relief sometimes to get back into something relatively anonymous.

Besides, it's far more fun and a real challenge to hunt down M3s in an old 180hp Alfa (which is more "exclusive" than most exotics at only 850 sold in the US) on a twisty road. Whether I "win" or not, I enjoy the experience of the car - and IMHO that is what it's all about. Just get in, and drive;-)

I'm not willing to put up with the Ferrari "mystique" and all the baggage it carries.

I appreciate my Porsches for what they are - incredibly effective driving machines, especially for everyday use. I typically put 15K miles/yr on my car and after 2 years I get another. But I'm having a middle age crisis - I may cheat on my turbo - I want something new and different. Something younger, more exciting and with a great bod. Hence my interest in the R8.

BTW April, you happen to own the last beautiful Ferrari model - the 360's and the 430's are great cars - they just aren't classically beautiful (especially the 430).

One thing's for certain, exclusivity has a great impact on resale value--to state the obvious.

I've heard nothing but great reviews for the new Z06, apart from some build quality issues. But in 10 years, a 2007 Z06 will be selling for pennies on the dollar.

Anyone check the price of a 1994 McLaren F1 lately? :)

Veyron will play out the same way, especially if the Bugatti corp goes bottoms-up financially.

As much as I hope every R8 aficionado gets to drive one, I also don't want Audi to crank them out like A6's. Especially when the V10 model comes around.

The sad thing about Porsches is that, despite a reputation for mechanical reliability that is head & shoulders above Ferrari, the depreciation is much worse than it should be.

And yet... I'd choose a F355 Berlinetta over a 993 Turbo. I suspect a lot of others would as well.

Playing the stats game gets old quickly. There will always be another car out there that is more __________.

Drive a modern day Ferrari (360/430) like you'd drive a normal car (12K miles/yr) and depreciation hits them pretty hard too. And the values of even relatively low mileage 550 Maranellos have dropped significantly.

In fact, when I was momentarily blinded by the thought of owning a certain 2006 steel grey 430 with tubi exhaust, I was warned by the dealer that if I drove it more than 1.5K miles a year, to expect depreciation of about 10% per year. I was informed that my turbo which I've owned for 10 months and has 8.5K miles on it was a "terribly high mileage car".

depreciation? It's something I've always wondered. I just figured it was due to the fact that the 456 was a 4-seater and the 550M wasn't a rear-engine.

I do agree with you on the 360 and 430.

However, in terms of looks, I'd put the Aston Vantage at the top.

the 456's design was hammered by Ferrariphiles and the 550's, because they are GT's, tend to have alot more mileage on them than the Ferrari "rich man's weekend toys", i.e. 360-430. Also the 575 came on the scene and that affected 550 prices. April probably is alot smarter than me about Ferraris (in fact, I think she is alot smarter than me about alot of things lol)

heard they're commanding 150K over sticker (in the 450-500K range), if you can actually find one to buy. I like the looks of the 599 also, don't know what Ferrari folks think about it looks-wise, but from everything I've read, it's an amazing driving machine.

the outgoing one was only 49k to start. no way an M3 goes for 80k.

For me the 360 is the first Ferrari where you could own one and enjoy it, without being a mechanically inclined (or a huge wallet) to keep it running. The performance on the F430 is simply stunning, but I have not warmed up to the looks.

The F355 has all the feedback we've come to love in our Afas, but distilled down a much more pure essence. Yeah, it's pretty, but that isn't why we bought it.

I love the looks of the 599, but refuse to even consider entering the scrum to get one.

It had to be if they wanted to get close to the RS4. So I'm guessing (based on many of the BMW forums) that the base price will be high 60 to low 70K range, and once you add air in the tires and a steering wheel, it will be close to 80K. After all, I think the M5 readily hits 90K with options.

to own over the long term. So a rich somebody buys it for shopping trips to the boutique and golf course, then sells it when the next 4 wheeled bauble comes along. Also, since they offer mighty performance but without the raw edge to remind you that you are driving a Ferrari - at every second - the mystique isn't as great.

That said, I like the 456 GT in dark colours and would love to have an old 365 "Queen Mother" to tool around in.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/12774/2008-bmw-m3-coupe-official-photos-info.html

keeping up the great German tradition of too much schnitzel (sp?). Nearly 3500 lbs for a rwd coupe - disappointing.

new one loaded sans SMG will be about 70K imo. close to 80 with SMG.

i m o

Who is paying 80k for an M3? Anything to substantiate this or are you just pulling numbers out of thin air?

If the M3 follows suit (and why not?), that means a base MSRP of $57 to $60K. BMW's usually have as much as $15K in options available.

Apparently BMW dealer principles are being told BMWoNA to expect a price in the $60K range to start. Time will tell.<ul><li><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/06/officially-official-introducing-the-2008-bmw-m3-coupe/">all this, plus the badge, ain't going to come cheap!</a></li></ul>