I have been reading with interest on the R8 and secretly hoping that I'll get the approval from the other half when it's available later. However, I was more than surprise to read on other forums and sites that it is not as well received as I thought it is, especially in the US. Comments such as "tone down Gallardo" to "scale up TT", to "boring and disappointing" seems to be some "anti-Audi" people in general, with the majority thinks that only BMW can make a sport car.
I don't live in the US and I was surprised by the reaction. The rest of the world love the R8 and Audi in particular has been seen as the equivalent of MB and BMW, but not in the US. I mean even Lexus/Infinity are seen as better than Audi, which is ridiculous when you talk to anyone from the rest of the world. Why is this? Is this bad marketing?
10-02-2006, 08:28 PM
Styling is always controversial- if something is cutting edge many will call it ugly, if it isconservative many will call it boring.
In performance, many seem to belive that every new model should be The Next Great Thing that completely blows away its competition. For the R8 in particular, many thought it would have a V10 at launch and DSG tranmission (I myself had hoped for the latter). So some are disappointed about that, but they also thought it would be a $120k+ car (it won't be).
As for Audi's image in the US, I think part of it is marketing, and part of it is a historically poor dealer network. The R8 should be an effective halo car which improves Audi's reputation. Give it time...
10-02-2006, 08:41 PM
Additionally I have found it is very hard to get a good "read" on a vehicle based on press photos or video. You have to see, hear and feel it in person. I am not defending the R8 but rather saying I remain open minded about these things. This has proven true with a number of Audis over the years.
10-02-2006, 10:05 PM
This is partly dealer strategy -- Lexus used to (don't know if they still do) offer $3000 to $9000 "bounties" to dealers for every Mercedes they could take in trade. This caused dealers to very aggressively seek out Mercedes customers, and even to offer them substantially more in trade for their Mercedes than a Mercedes dealer could offer.
It is partly other marketing, however. Lexus often gives away LS and SC leases to "key people" in given social circles or people seen as "particularly visible" or "thought leaders" within an industry -- what VW should have done, but failed to do, with the Phaeton.
Lexus is also associated with all kinds of events that no other brand tends to be associated with... particularly at the very high end.
Dunno... nobody has done a better job with marketing than Lexus. I've never bought a Japanese car and find Lexus products boring, but their attention to customers (both present and potential) is simply unmatched in the industry (and in most other industries).
10-02-2006, 10:06 PM
... everyone knew longitudinal DSG wouldn't be ready in time.
It's a tough problem, Borg-Warner dropped the ball on it, and it will now be unveiled in the Murcielago's replacement (and quickly spread throughout the Audi/VW product line)...
10-02-2006, 11:37 PM
Aside from this forum, I was equally surprised by the R8's reception. Folks have been very critical about the styling (side panels) and engine selection.
Other Audis have been met with similar praise...for example, folks consistently balked at the styling and performance with each successive iteration of the A4. Same with the A6, the A3's intro to the US, etc. I would argue that the tide has turned concerning style over time (controversial grill) and choice of market (hatchback - ala A3).
Audi's image has been an uphill battle since the late 80's partially due to 60 Minute's innacurate reporting of "unintended acceleration." With the addition of several new platforms (Q7, RS4, R8, etc), Audi is in a very strong position to project the right kind of image for a new generation of consumers. Time will tell.
My guess is that reaction here in the US will change when the R8 has established its niche...possibly with several engine options (V10? TT V10? V12 TDI like the Q7?)
10-03-2006, 01:46 AM
Audi very quietly "swept it under the rug" per say. Many journalists falsely assumed the sequential setup was DSG. I've seen 2 or 3 reputable sources citing the R8 being DSG equipped.
I even had a surprisingly high ranking Audi employee giving me an earfull about the R8's "DSG double clutch" transmsission at the premiere party.<ul><li><a href="http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2006_paris/0609_2007_audi_r8/">Automobile mag falsely reports R8 having DSG.</a></li></ul>
10-03-2006, 01:54 AM
from some photographic angles, the long overhang or tapered nose can look awkward. However, in person the car truly is stunning and the styling cues work much better IMO.
I think people should wait and see the car in person before making judgement.
On the performance side, Audi's given performance figures will be considerably underrated IF the ~3,400 lb curb weight Audi has given holds true. Looking at the design of the engine, I have a feeling the R8 version of the 4.2 puts out a little more power than the RS4 version even if the actual ratings are the same. I expect a 0-60 time at 4.0 seconds and a 12.3-12.5 second quarter mile time. I also expect a sub 8 minute Nurburgring lap out of the car.
I don't think very many people can complain about those performance figures.
Also, the interior quality blows away anything in its class, especially the 911.
10-03-2006, 05:46 AM
For instance, who in their right mind would get an R8 when they could drive an Aston Martin AMV8? Or when they can get a 997 Porsche GT3? I love the design, but that's about all the car has going for it. Beyond that, it IS a tone down Gallardo or a buffed up TT. If Audi wants to compete at the 110k price tag, they need to drop the V10 from the S8 tuned to the max.
There are a LOT of cars to pick from if your budget is 110k-ish and you want a hot coupe.
BMW M6 / Porsche GT3 / Aston Martin AMV8 / SL55AMG / Jag XKR / Used Ferrari 355 / Used Lambo Diablo VT... List goes on and on...
10-03-2006, 06:59 AM
I disagree. A C4S is a plausible and compelling alternative but most of the others you mention are not. The level of committment required to use a GT3 as a daily driver will certainly be higher than the R8. The AMV8 is underdeveloped and underpowered albeit lovely to look at. A used 355, which requires engine-out service, is hardly an alternative and the newest ones are 7 years old at this point assuming you could even find a later Berlinetta. M6 is moderately interesting but seems to have been panned as a handler and is underbraked. The R8 fills an interesting void at the price point and using the reasonable assumption that fit, finish and overall engineering are top notch should meet expectations sales wise.
10-03-2006, 07:01 AM
I too would consider an R8 instead of a Carrera S if it had rear seats for our infant daughter.
But I find it interesting that people are writing off the R8 without the chance to drive it or at least read what motoring journalists' comments are before forming their own.
The only opinion that can be formed, unless you're a lucky sod who was at the Paris show, is based on photographs and to my my eyes, the R8 looks fabulous and stayed mostly true to the Le Mans concept car.
But I do note that my opinions of a car aesthetics change after I've had the chance to see it in person, so I'd reserve final judgement for the R8 until I'm lucky enough to see one in the flesh and hopefully soon.
But like I said, driving impressions will have to wait and so will my opinions of the dynamic qualities of the car.
As for comparisons, I guess the inevitable comparisons to the 997 Carrera S/GT3/Turbo and to the Gallardo will happen. And other similar cars like the AM V8 Vantage (shockingly poor reliability if Bailey's long term experience on "Evo" is common experience of AM owners) will merit their comparisons too. But I'd wait until there have been behind the wheel reports to see what the general public's perception of the car will be.
And for me, I'll have to wait until our child(ren) are away from home before I can contemplate a 2 seater again, or unless my wife loses her marbles and lets me get an additional toy...now that'd be fun!
10-03-2006, 07:07 AM
10-03-2006, 07:44 AM
Aston Martins look great but their reliability sucks. The GT3 is basically a street legal track car but not exactly what I would call a good daily driver unless your name is Ricky Bobby. The R8 in V8 form is not competing with the GT3 and neither is the AMV8. A more valid R8 comparison would be the 911 Carrera C4S.
As for price, the R8 in the US will launch under $100K. The AMV8 starts at $110K is more expensive and has less performance.
You suggest that the R8 is somehow lame or diminished because it is not competing directly with the Gallardo at launch. I would expect by the time the V10 version of the R8 is released, the Lambo will have more than 520bhp. The R8 V10 will be likely be a detuned version of that engine with some Audi DNA added in and will still be a lot less expensive than a Lambo.
The R8 in V8 form going to be a bargain when you look at the total package: excellent performance and handling with best of breed luxury features. The R8 will also be fairly exclusive given the low build capacity... it will never be a common vehicle like the 911 or MB sports coupes or BMWs.
Audi is building the R8 line with some differentiation in power and performance features. Look at all the versions of the 911 that are available to accomodate some stratification in performance/features and budget. Porsche did not launch the 911 series with a 911 Turbo. I think Audi is looking to steal a very small piece of the 911 market share while creating a halo platform for the rest of the Audi line.
10-03-2006, 08:05 AM
to a lot of people.
It is a beautiful car no doubt, but the performances are not there.
The R8 will "trounce" the AM and for less $$.
10-03-2006, 08:16 AM
10-03-2006, 08:20 AM
10-03-2006, 08:23 AM
10-03-2006, 08:38 AM
but they could always learn and do better.
10-03-2006, 08:51 AM
I can understand that styling is subjective, but the engineering underneath the R8's skin (whether first developed for the Gallardo or not) is truly impressive and beautiful in its execution. In the end, that's what makes an Audi an Audi IMHO.<ul><li><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/02/paris-motor-show-audi-r8-cutaways/">Click here for cut-away pics...</a></li></ul>
I've never felt the same way about the B6 or B7 styling as I did about the B5. I finally have that feeling back looking at the R8. I had the same feeling as a kid growing up drooling on 911's. I like the R8 more and more everyday and I would be shocked if seeing it in person will change that. Bad news for me, because I know myself and when I get this feeling about a product, I usually figure out a way to make it happen. This one may take a little longer though. If I could, I would order this thing right now without ever driving it, sitting in it, or even seeing it in person, I like it that much (as long as it's under 95k).
10-03-2006, 03:34 PM
The Bogus "60 minute" made up stuff, and a general lack of advertising/marketing. (Audi spent the least out of all companies on advertising last year) People that buy luxury cars here want others to know that they spent their money, advertising is requiered for that. Many BMW buyers could really care less about its "amazing hadling"
Austin A6 3.2
10-03-2006, 04:39 PM
... no Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo or similar vehicle has ever gotten my blood boiling. I like the S8 and would take it over a true "sports car" any day.
That said, if I had the money, I would be on the list to receive an R8 as soon as I could get my hand on one. What an exceptionally beautiful and well designed car.
As to the V10 vs. V8 issue, unless you live in Germany or own a track, it doesn't matter. Most people here that complain about the S6, S8 and R8 not having enough HP make me laugh. In the US, the speed limit is 70 or 75 mph, so the HP do NOTHING for anyone. And I bet no one here can tell the difference in getting from 0-60 in 4.2s or 4.6s seconds when sitting in the car. Unless you feel the need to drag race from red lights, it doesn't matter.
I also bet that there are few - if any - people on this board that could drive the vehicle at 80% of what it could do with a good driver.
So, all the HP, 0-60 and max speed talk is theoretical BS. No one here will ever be able to drive this vehicle to its potential with the V8, let alone the V10. Unless you have a track AND are an exceptional driver, no one will ever be able to do that. Same with a Porsche, Ferrari or whatever else you want to throw in the mix.
All the talk about an "up scale TT" is hilarious. Most here haven't even SEEN the car, sat in it or driven it. Just a bunch of bulls... talk in my opinion. But then, some people need to badmouth things to make their decisions or taste look better I guess.
Audi put out an incredible car, with nothing from BMW or MB to touch it (they're both working on it though). Once we see reviews on the R8 in comparison to the Porsche, AM, Ferrari, etc. offerings we'll know more, until then, most here only have unfounded opinions to offer.
Sorry to be this direct, but the BS factor here is just too high for my taste...
10-03-2006, 04:59 PM
I can go out and get an Evo and put $600 bucks into it and make it faster, so what is so special about this car?
10-03-2006, 06:18 PM
you spend on it.
and my grand total will be less than half of yours.
so what is so special about your car?
10-03-2006, 06:49 PM
10-03-2006, 07:02 PM
Austin A6 3.2
10-03-2006, 07:05 PM
Apparently, you purchased the wrong car. Everything about your favorite boy racer is here:
Except I'd still prefer a V10. For the engine sound.
10-04-2006, 01:23 AM
because only a Brit can say that an Aston Martin/Jaguar are better than anything else. Same logic leads to the conclusion that Range Rover is the best car in the world....
Anyway,you must be rich to own an AM/Jag/RR coz you will need 2 of the same car while one is in the garage!!!
10-04-2006, 07:28 AM
10-04-2006, 08:45 AM
Why? It gets you from point A to point B? Get a Camry then.
Any automobile beyond the price tag of $35K has to stir your inner gut to dish out the extra cash. At a speculated price tag of $90K+, I think that a car has to do more than just look good. How much speed and power a car needs can be argued all day but you need to make comparisons with others in its class and price range.
10-04-2006, 09:31 AM
I do not have an Evo but I am just saying why would you pay $100,000 for the R8 which is relatively slow. There is no doubt that it is sexy as hell but still why not go get a Z06 with a 7 liter v8 for 68K and with 30K left over you can surely make it faster. I understand that the R8 is in the super car classification but it just seems that those little ricers out there are faster up to like 150mph max except for the Evo that can hit the 180mph range, which is why I picked the Evo.
10-04-2006, 10:11 AM
on a cheap sedan with a big turbo bolted on. Sure it's quick but speed is cheap. I want the whole package.
10-04-2006, 10:13 AM
against the competition. It should be in the ballpark performance wise, has the additional value of AWD and the interior and overall fit and finish should be quite a bit better than the Porsche or AM.
10-04-2006, 11:04 AM
and still there would be many many people that would get the R8 over it. (The Z06 is still selling over msrp in most locations, i believe, sometimes 20K over.)
Why get an R8 over a Chevy? Oh, i dont know... AWD, midengine, Audi luxury and amenities, German build quality.......and it's not a Chevy and all that entails. And i love the Z06, the C5 even more than the new C6. (i'm actually getting to Autocross a 2001 White Z06 this weekend!)
I spend some time on corvetteforum.com (i'm fixated on getting a Vette in the next few years) and just last week someone posted "i can get an F430 or a Z06, what should i buy?". I'd say the majority of responses from the corvette guys was..."get the Ferrari". Not because the 430 is faster, just because the Ferrari is a Ferrari. Same thing with the R8, its not a Ferrari, but even that is a reason for someone to go with the Audi over a Ferrari/Porsche, etc.
If the R8 does 0-60 in 4.1, will it still be slow? (not that it really matters)
10-04-2006, 12:00 PM
I also like the C5 more than the C6.
10-04-2006, 02:23 PM
don't like it.
anyone with a sense of reality should like it quite a bit....most of the TT owners love it.
10-04-2006, 05:25 PM
that looks extremely aggressive and fast but isn't AND is powered by the 4.2 V8, the most common VAG V8 motor available (awesome motor but not for a $100,000+ supercar). A variant of this motor is in the vw touareg dont forget, which is an awesome car dont get me wrong but nothing about it say supercar, lol.
I would like something a bit more unique than that...
10-04-2006, 10:00 PM
10-05-2006, 06:28 AM
10-05-2006, 06:28 AM
10-05-2006, 07:59 AM
10-05-2006, 02:17 PM
10-05-2006, 08:40 PM
Hence it's unusual angle and 18* crankpin offset to reach the ideal 72* V10 from a 90* V8 with two cylinders added.
10-05-2006, 09:06 PM
10-05-2006, 09:13 PM
10-06-2006, 08:00 PM
10-09-2006, 02:23 PM
Still looks like a concept car *in pictures*. Maybe it'll be totally different in person. In the pics I think it looks a bit too understated. I'm sure you'll see more of the angles and creases i person.