Despite my 'borderline' mono,5 days of eating only soup, and not being able to speak without sounding like a combination of Marlon Brando and Helen Keler... i got in the jeep and drove to work. It seems whenever i am told that something came from MTM i have to check it out asap.

Check it out:

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/138871/rs4cab.larryf_004.jpg">

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/138871/rs4cab.larryf_003.jpg">

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/138871/rs4cab.larryf_001.jpg">
welds are always great...
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/138871/rs4cab.larryf_005.jpg">

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/138871/rs4cab.larryf_006.jpg">

Once the other parts are delivered i will post install pics along with some video.

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/mtm01.jpg">

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/46874/mtm02.jpg">

fcuuuuk that.

which is a high quality piece in and of itself. I mean, it's not made from Titanium or anything special, I believe. Just good 'ol T-304 stainless, correct? It may be a good exhaust but that vs Milltek for the sound or performance cannot possibly justify the cost.

About $1,000 per hp. I'd say we're well into diminishing returns.

is it *worth* double the price of a Magnaflow? no.

a custom oem hand milled palladium short shifter that saves 3 miligrams in weight and reduces throws by a nano second.

<img src="http://theleglamp.com/signaturelamp.jpg">

Look, you get what you pay for. There are S4 owners who still feel the RS4 is not worth the $20,000 premium over the S4. They are entitled to their belief.

As with any product, the higher-end you go, the less you get for your dollar. Is a Bugatti Veyron really "worth" 16 RS4's?

So is the case here. The fit, finish, sound, functionality, millimeter precision of the construction with MTM is second to none. It is a premium product and commands a premium price. It is not a value product, in that you do not get as much bang for the buck, but no absolute high-end product is a value product.

Whether one is willing to pay the price of admission is an individual decision. I came very close to getting this exhaust myself. I got a custom built Milltek instead, and while I am very happy with it, I am not going to claim that it is on par with the MTM in terms of it's overall finish. It isn't. That is a simple fact.

Is the Milltek even worth it. Again, you are asking the same question. But, when you buy a $74,000 car, why skimp on aftermarket parts. The exhaust should be resonated, and it should preserve the sport valve functions. That is just my opinion of course.

For me, whenever I dump money into a car via mods, extra's or whatever, trying to get my original investment out is never considered because it will never happen. Now, if we're talking about some collectible cars, then that's another story.

Thanks Vijay for your intelligent remarks regarding this topic.

I heard it all once I read the statement about the magnaflow exhaust.

As for the resale value... when has anyone in the history of modding cars(that actually has a passion for it) been worried about the resale value of the part/s? If one was so concerned with resale value they should have decided not to buy the rs4 which i believe is at a 52% resid.

Some people just have to try and create any possible negatives about the products they can't afford or "justify" to purchase.

Generally, I agree with you Vijay, that you usually get what you pay for, but, this is a bit much.

You mention the difference in price between the RS4 and the S4... Well, the mechanical differences between those two cars can be easily enumerated and a value placed on the parts to try to mod an S4 to approach RS4 performance, and surely, it will come out to be about $20,000 worth. I don't think there's any debate among the financially minded that the RS4 <b>IS</b> worth 20k more than an S4. For my part, as an S4 owner who is very content with my S4, it's not worth it for me, not because it's "too much money", but the marginally greater satisfaction I may get from the RS4 isn't worth 20k <i>to me</i>. Seeing that 20k work for me gives me more satisfaction.

To discuss whether this exhaust is really $5,000 better than a full, valved Milltek is almost moot because it's quality is clearly better than the Milltek which is overpriced to begin with. Milltek's quality is not better than the cheaper Magnaflow product, yet, it costs twice as much for a non-res, non-valved cat-back. So, there's a good example where more money <b>does not</b> buy you better quality.

Although somewhat theoretical, a better comparison of exhaust quality may be between MTM and Fast Intentions or A.W.E. While I agree that the MTM appears to be a much nicer piece than the Milltek, it seems to have the same quality as a Fast Intentions exhaust (except the F.I. has better welds), yet, the F.I. will cost less than a Milltek (using their S4 exhausts as a pricing model). Unfortunately, neither of them has introduced an exhaust for the RS4 so we don't have a direct comparison. But it would be interesting.

When you look at exhausts like F.I. or even A.W.E. who grinds down and finishes even the internal welds to ensure smooth flow, using the same stainless steel as MTM... again, if the MTM <i>somehow</i> is better quality than these other two manufacturer's products, is it $5,000 better? (assuming they'd cost as much as the Milltek) The answer is no... not even maybe, IMHO.

As I mentioned, I generally agree that you get what you pay for. But I also know that price is not a certain indicator of quality. Some things are just overpriced. We see this everywhere.

M3

they have far more "i'm a cock factor" according to Clarkson

the simple fact is that you won't find a system with better quality. with MTM and Milltek, you're simply paying a larger percentage of their development costs because they're both much much smaller companies than Magnaflow....you're not getting better quality. in fact, i would argue that you may be getting *worse* quality.

Legally sell aftermarket product in Germany. Then there is the Euro vs. the USD and the generally higher wages the German workers get paid in the car industry. Finally shipping/handling, import taxes, the US distributor and the dealers that want their cut.

All these things add up and it's up to the customer to decide if they are willing to pay extra for a product.

or their choice not to purchase your product. Even more ignorant to say that they "can't afford" this exhaust. I'm sure every RS4 owner here can "afford" this exhaust but they, using good financial sense, may choose not to, and they should not be spoken of in a condescending manner because of their choice, certainly not by you, the guy advertising a product. I would think you'd want to make friends here. And by thanking Vijay for his "intelligent remarks" (and by his post history I'd agree that he is very intelligent), are you insinuating that others here who's opinion differs are not intelligent? Kinda smells like it.

because it comes with ceramic cats, I believe, which are alot cheaper than metal race cats. Milltek uses HJS metal race cats, which are expensive and are supposed to give a few horses over ceramics. I've seen the HJS cats go for more than $700 alone (200 cell). So yeah, Milltek is going to cost more than Magnaflow for that and the fact that it is imported and distributed through only one supplier. Besides, the jump from Milltek to MTM is exponentially more ridiculous than Magnaflow to Milltek.

and the Milltek are 100 cpi cats? Less CPI is more flow and wouldn't that be what we are looking for especially at these prices

How much is each downpipe Ryan

Damn these parts are expensive

asserting anything to the extent you have mentioned. I was simply responding to a comment that was made about the product I started the thread about. My statement was directed towards one member... in the most indirect way possible.

My purpose is not to push people to purchase my products but rather to inform them the best I can about what I offer with hope to ease their decision. As was the purpose of this thread, not to say MTM is better than any other company's products, but just to show everyone that I was installing some of their products on a board member's vehicle.

MTM's products are not the only I/we offer.. as we are major dealers for stratmosphere, APR, AWE, OCT..etc and distribute more of thier products than MTM's.

With regards to the "can't afford it"comment(myself included), I apologize(it probably was a bit to far).. hope no one was hurt by it. And I have been trying to make some friends on this board since i became a vendor and even after the somewhat harsh introduction responses i've received by some members.

Well I will still post the pics of the install along with the videos of the vehicle once completed regardless of the direction this thread turned out going.

For the record: I have nothing against anyone on this forum nor the type of parts they choose to use nor the amount of money those parts cost.... just my opinions about them.(like eveyone else)

doesn't give any power increase than it is a waste of money. That is unless it makes you happy. But how much better can the welds be? C'mon. Really, Is the Milltek or other sloppy? No. It's not much better and even if it LOOKED a tad better, who cares, it's under the car. Is it alot lighter? I mean, just because you spent $74,000 on a car doesn't mean you should spend more than 10% of the price of the car on an exhaust. If you want to, god bless.

For any type of product, the value factor decreases the higher-end you go. Beyond a point, to get a slightly better product, you will pay a lot more.

The whole point of whether the MTM is "worth" over $5k is moot until someone produces the exact equal or better product for less. Almost equal doesn't count. Yes, for any product, you can get almost equal for far less money. Compare a Ferrari 430 with an Audi R8. Is one really worth over twice the cost of the other?

The finish, the absolute millimeter precision of the assembly, the presences of valves, the internal muffler and resonator design and resulting sound are all considerations. And, yes, it is under the car, but it is still quite visible so the finish counts for a lot on the rear mufflers anyway.

Now, one can make a better argument that $5000 for downpipes that are completely invisible, add very little to the sound, can mess with your emission control systems, add no power whatsoever is a waste of money. But in the end, modding cars is all about personal gratification and just like some people can make do with a Seiko and others need a Rolex, there are some that will be happy with a Magnaflow and others that will want MTM.

I saw how the MagnaFlows were made. About a year ago, they switched to laser welding.

When you combine the type of stainless they use, plus the fit, finish, LIFETIME WARRANTY and the fact that they really, really do make the hp they claim, then factor in the cost, no one beats Magnaflow...no one.

And I hate to say it, 'cause the owner is such a jackass but I can't deny that.

If you really, really, really feel like paying double for a system of no better quality, then by all means, order a system for your Audi, BMW or whatever from a German tuner.

for the ovals

i personally just don't like the look of the dual tips on the RS

but they don't. To the $800 magnaflow add $200 for resonators, $1000 for valves, and another couple of hundred since they can't use an "off the shelf" muffler piece since with valves, you would actually need two muffler outlets and pipes. Your magnaflow now costs about 2200-2300 dollars. Milltek has smaller distribution and import costs so at least for the complete system,
the costs are pretty well justifiable. If high, only by a few hundred.

Now, I have heard a car with a magnaflow, and it is just too much for me. I found it loud and boomy. I do realize, however, that is a matter of personal taste.

No. The downpipes use 100-cell cats.

Exhaust is $5,650.00 USD, and each downpipe is $2,325.00 USD.

US importer is Hoppen Motor Sports:

http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/Audi.RS4.B7.Tuning.htm

it really should have been remade to be honest.

The S8 system i installed was one of the most straight forward.