Im a 4000/Cgt regular. Just stumbled onto this sight while being bored at work. Some of these cars you guys are working on are friggin unbelievable!
I plan on starting to build a turbo engine for my 4000kq in the near future. If I Build the turbo motor, and pull my stock engine my mechanic will put it in. It would take me years to diy. So my question is, A: Can i get an MC1 engine to safely around 300hp? Or should I buy a wrecked B4 s4 and use the 20vt and the six speed? And if I went with the 5kt motor could I use a 6spd from an s4? My stock tranny has something like 200k + mileage on it, so i figure might as well buy a newer 6spd with less mileage than pay to get my old 5spd rebuilt.
Thanks Audi Guys
11-15-2004, 03:29 PM
i've seen quite a few MC1 motors dropped into the 4000. that engine can be taken up to 300hp. you'll have to either ditch the CIS system and install an EFI (do a search, this is becoming an ever popular thing) or figure out the fuel delievery problem on the CIS system and properly run 300hp. I havne't seen too many AAN (urS4) engines dropped into a 4000. Tom Saltino, a local is actually doing this. oh jebus .. that thing is going to be an absolute terror. its incredible. i also don't frequent the 4000 forum. in the end .. all things are possible .. its a matter of how much do you wanta fork over. $$ :o)
11-15-2004, 04:18 PM
11-15-2004, 04:34 PM
Both have been working pretty damn hard to get as big of numbers as what they put down.
300hp is no sweat from a 10vt, especially if you are talking crank numbers. That just takes proper injector sizing and fuel/ign maps if you ditch the CIS. I should be close to that mark with the injector/FPR combo I am looking at. Already have the FPR, if you want a hint. ;-)
11-15-2004, 06:50 PM
If not, go 20vt. The 10v is a great motor, but just for fun, think about this. A guy at the dyno put down about 60 more whp and tq than I did with an AAN, RS2 manifold, and the exact same turbo I'm running. Cody, you out there? It just shows what a better breathing head will do. BUT he also had to have custom rods to get there. If I can get this head to flow better, I bet the MC bottom end will be able to handle the power levels. Check out the thread on my dyno #'s a few posts down.
11-15-2004, 07:01 PM
Were talkin' about DOUBLING the power from your stock engine!
To get 200hp, You could take a stock MC2, clean it up, rebuid the head, chip, wastgate spring and custom exhaust.... that's it!!!
You can keep all your drivetrain stock!
200hp. for $1,000-$1,500.!
I've got 150-160hp. N.A. in a 2,400lb car, I've increased power 50-60% and it made a HUGE difference!
Imagine what a %100 increase would feel like?!?!
BTW mine makes 210-220hp at the crank. And it has very few problems keeping up with todays "fast" cars. Being so light helps, I have been able to hang with Ur-S4s up to around 120mph (CGT's run out of gearing around there, but can get up to 130+).
If they get CARB exemption for the 034EFI I am there, but until I can smog it legally in CA the CIS-E stays put. I like being able to drive my car, and not being able to get tags every 2 years would be a real bummer.
10v turbo was the way to go for me. Spending the extra chash on a 20v wasn't even an options for my project.
My goal for this spring is to have my rebuilt MC motor in, and running with just a chip and WG spring. Then I want to enjoy what the car is with the new motor, work out the bugs(hopefully there isn't any :D) and then start thinking about converting to EFI. I have a feeling the chipped 10vturbo will feel pretty good in the 4000... specially for the cost!
I'm learning as I go.. but feel free to post up any questions.
11-15-2004, 08:55 PM
To get a eurovan block, bore it out to 2583cc, 034EFI, ported "tweeko" "NF" head....
185hp. 185ft lbs!!!!!!
I've been toying with the idea of a hopped up N/A motor for my 4KCSQ lately. Wish list includes 2.6 stroker, NF head, MC2 cam...
We'll see. I love the turbo in my CGT, but I just feel like doing it to the 4KCSQ would be doing the same thing over again.
Then again, with my growing family, I had also been eyeing a couple of UR-S6 Avants I seem to keep running across. Lotta $$$ though.
11-16-2004, 09:55 AM
I think the 10vt is probally going to be the way for me. I already have a block and head, but the turbo has been removed, and the exhaust manifold is cracked. I won't address that until I get the motor torn down and see what type of wear she has. The motor is basically free, so thats why im thinking of using it. I have definately been eyeing up the 034 EFI. Ive seen some 6spd trannys for sale for around 1K, will they bolt up to the MC1 and my axle?
I just kinda through out the power that I thought id need to be around to keep up with the modern AWD turbo cars. Id rather build my own old school Tquat than buy an R32 or Evo.
11-16-2004, 12:14 PM
That will be awesome. I love NA power, but turbo's are a habbit that I can't kick..> POWER more power and MORE POWER!
I'd love to catch a ride in an NA 185hp/tq 10v some time!
I don't think anyone has every seen the rear end of the car Dan... sup with that?! ;) you hiding a big ol' fart can back there.. hehe
11-16-2004, 07:21 PM
I'll bet it'll pump out more power than that, just based on the fact that it'll be a 2.6L with a high flowing head. Injectors and tuning will be key. Just ask Nate S. and Jim G....
11-16-2004, 07:52 PM
That's a 3 chamber Flowmaster "big fellah"!!!!
It definatley gives my car the "bark 'O the bad five"!!!! :-Þ
It seems like a daunting task though. Something that I don't have the time or patience for at the moment.
11-21-2004, 03:22 PM
Daunting task is an understatement. There are only 2 companies in the U.S. that I have been able to track down that have done that swap into a Type 85. Neither wants to do it again, and one would not share the info on the DIY. The shop that did mine was the other, and I don't know if they'd share the process, just because I'm not sure they know how they did it. ;-) Suffice to say, that it is certainly doable, but unless you have an AudiSport gearbox and linkage(good luck!), it takes a good bit of fabrication of essential parts, and lots of trial and error.
Stick with the 5sp... A 6sp will run you around $2700-3800 rebuilt, and the 4000Q drivetrain is fairly bomber.
Sounds like you might be under the impression that UrS4's have 6sp trannies as well. Maybe you're not, but just in case, they came in Euro models only. Theoretically, you could swap in a tranny from a B5 S4, since it's also an 01E, but the first gear is not as strong as a CRB(RS2). My CMG was rebuilt to CRB spec, FWIW.
I have it mated to an AAN. Should be a hoot with the 4.11 FDR, like the 4000's have. I won't speculate about power until it's dyno'd.
11-21-2004, 04:00 PM
12-02-2004, 12:35 PM
12-02-2004, 12:55 PM
My project list has expanded to include the following:
MC1 short block
NF head (need to source an MC2 type cam)
Megasquirt w/3B injectors
Chipped MAC10 ecu for ignition
I'm posting because of the transmission, since you mentioned Coupe GT gearing. I just got it last weekend. Out of the blue, the local yard has two(!) fwd 5kt 5 speeds. So, I pulled the tranny (and the oil squirters for my Eurovan stroker block for another project).
Prior to obtaining the transmission, I was going to do this to my primary Coupe GT. However, since I have a second one that's already down with no motor and so-so tranny I'll do it to that one.
Of course my plans always drag out, but things are moving. I just got the NF head and tranny and sent out my MS for assembly (I would have never gotten around to assembling it myself) and the ECU for chipping.
The motivation for doing the 10vt swap (aside from the end result) is to free up my engine stand so I can use it for some 200q20v stuff to get done. Hmm, I guess this would be the forum to post about that stuff too. I'll do that later.