04-09-2007, 07:19 AM
I have been monitoring oil consumption in my a6 for several months. I brought the car to Audi several months ago and they said they found nothing wrong. I closely monitored oil consumption and found that I was consuming 1 quart per 1000 miles. I brought the car to Audi who says that the rings are gone and that the only fix is a new short block at a cost of $11,000 in parts and $5,000 in Labor.
I have an aftermarket warrenty which covers rings "if the damage is caused by the failure of an internally lubricated componet"
Do rings fail for any other reason? The dealer said that the warrenty people may demand that the engine be torn down and THEN they will decide if the repair is covered. If course I can't take this chance.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I am in Mass. Is there a way to determine why the rings failed without tearing the engine apart? How can rings fail on a car with 72K which still to this day runs fine and even the dealer says that it really isn't an issue now except for keeping the oil level up.
04-09-2007, 02:21 PM
try runnining Restore thru it.Most warranty adjusters wont be able to tell whats wrong.A used motor will run 5k or less
04-10-2007, 03:28 PM
1qt/1000 miles is not good, but I wouldn't spend much on it if it runs fine. BTW there was an 04' S4 engine with 6speed manual tranny on ebay and it didn't sell. There is more for sale than needed.<ul><li><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AME WA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110106973346&rd=1,1">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=ST
04-15-2007, 08:45 PM
rest of the engine in? I assume that you have owned the car since new. have you been pretty good about oil changes? I cannot imagine only the rings going without other wear someplace else. How do you know it is the rings? What do the plugs look like when you pull them, are they oil fowled? Is your oil pressure up to spec? What about your PCV valve is it functioning properly.
Have you done a compression check?
You might try pulling a head and looking for a ridge where the rings contact the cylinders. If there is one then maybe you need a rebuild but I would be looking at all of the small stuff that could cause oil blow by or other consumption causing issues except for bad rings especially if there is no evidence of oil on the tail pipes. Just my opinion
04-17-2007, 09:03 AM
Thanks and based upon your insight I called the service manager at Audi. He says that the plugs and compression was fine and the PCV was ok. They did not do a oil pressure test. He feels that probably one cylinder is not properly scraping the oil away and is buring as a result. His opinion is that this issue should not shorten the life of the engine. HE suggested 20/50 oil in summer. He says that he has never seen cats fail due to excess oil consumption. It is a bit of guesswork but he seems to feel that I could just live with this issue for a long time without much difficulty. Hopefullt that is correct. If you think that he is crazy let me know!
04-17-2007, 06:02 PM
It's not uncommon for one engine to consume more oil than another and still fall within factory specifications. I guess it is up to you and the psychology of the whole thing. For example in CO the gravel on the roads is terrible and requires windshield replacement every 2 to 3 years. Looking through a new windshield changes your whole outlook regarding the condition of your car. Can you live with this? Or will it irritate you into not caring for the car in the proper manner in the future. Obviously it is a malfunction. I would be asking why one of the cylinders is not being scraped clean and if it is not being scraped clean then how is the compression up to spec? I Would look to that cylinder for a broken ring. I have seen cats clog due to unburned oil and also seen o2 sensors go bad due to the same mality. It may take a while. Do you have and extended warranty? if so I would insist on remediating the issue. I would also get another opinion, say from a private service garage for Audi's who has nothing to loose. I would spend the bucks and pull the heads and look at of all of the cylinders when the piston is at bottom stroke for scoring or deep scratching. I am suprised your plugs don't fowl on that one cylinder. Sorry I can't be of more help now but would like to know how this turns out. Keep us posted.
BTW-The emissions test is a good idea as Audi will have to repair the problem up to 100,000 miles per the feds under the emissions warranty...Regards
04-18-2007, 04:22 AM
Tnanks. That is very good information. The car did pass emissions in November. In Mass it is performed by simply plugging into the computer. I have spoken with a good mechanic who works on audi/porsche/VW. He looks at it as a more serious issue than Audi seems to. I have an aftermarket warranty but they won't cover the repairs unless the engine is first stripped down and I can show the failure of an internally lubricated part. Audi says they don't expect to find one so I am stuck...
04-18-2007, 05:22 PM
Try another Dealer or the service manager as this Service Writer doesn't seem to have the same opinion about the Audi product that the rest of the AG management does have. My AllRoad was bought back by Audi due to noises and vibrations (which are inherently subjective in the first place) since the customer satisfaction and product reputatiojn maen alot to Audi. They gave me the 2005 S-4 for a 2004 AllRoad and just changed the vin number on the bank note because I was a loyal customer and did not deal in a nasty or otherwise impolite way! So they gave me a $52,000 car for a $45,000 car that vibrated and made differential noise. They are very customer loyal. Move up a step to the district rep. I would try another dealer or spend the bucks to prove that this is a issue beyond oil not being scraped off of the cylinder face. That answer required the raising of the BS Flag and a single finger salute. I can attest to the fact that my dealer would not have provided this kind of a excuse and I have never heard this kind of technical discussion regarding oil consumption. The rings are not supposed to "scrape" the oil off of the cylinder bores. The rings ride on a thin film of oil that seperates them from the bore and stays on the bore even through the combustion cycle. The very location of the piston ring in relation to the combustion keeps the oil on the bore from burning away. The combustion is over by the time the piston is in its downward stroke to expose oil to being burned. If you are burning this much oil it is getting in the cylinder during the combustion cycle from somewhere that it is not supposed to and in amounts that are too large. There is definetly a problem if the issue has not been inherent since the purchase of the car. PLEASE do not fall for this excuse!The 4.2 L is and extremely sophisticated engine built to very tight tollerances, hence 340 HP and about again as much torque out of a 40 valve, variable valve timed, 100% cast alloy, 7000 RPM redline engine! This thing is a work of art and considering that the RS models are force fed with few mods to 450 HP and the new direct injection models perform like with the power delivery that they do means you have a very hi tech power plant. Hence the BS Flag .!.. and single finger salute to your service manager. The warranty will have to pay for this. It is not a common or usual situation nor is it something that he will not be reimbursed for as the engine is burning more than a qt per 1000 miles. Heck I go 10,000 and the oil level never moves off of full.
Think of it another way, this car is costing you about $10.00 (if you use Mobile I) every thousand miles. That is $100.00 plus the cost of an oil change every time you change the oil. In 30K more miles you will have spent the money to pull the heads and uncover the problem just in the cost of oil changes and not counting the costs of other maintenance. Finally, why did you get the extended warranty if you opt to live with this malfunction. The extended warranty alone cost you at least $2000 I would imagine. That will cover the repairs.
IMHO stop dancing with these people and throw a hard ball at them. They are patting you on the fanny and sending you on your way each time they BS you. You shouldn't have to prove anything to them, there is an issue with your car and they should prove to you that there is nothing wrong with spending $10.00 every thousand miles to operate your premium car!
Sorry for the rant and the long post, but I hate to see this kind of thing happen especially with this nice of a car and this sophisticated of an engine....
04-23-2007, 05:39 PM
Thanks for all the info and insight. Although I love the car, from a financial perspective I am not sure that putting 3-4K or so into having someone diagnose the problem is worth it. The car is worth 10K-14K. Once the engine is apart I would pretty much have to may any amount have to it repaired as I am already out the cost of the tear down. So I may be putting ½ or more of the cars value into a single repair. It just doesn't seem economically feasible.
04-25-2007, 06:37 PM
Could be that the oil control ring in a cylinder or cylinders is bad, usually glazed. If the oil control ring is bad the cylinder in almost all cases will pass on a compression test but will allow oil to get into the combustion chamber. While you could live with the high oil consumption it will probably effect the life of the O2 sensor and cause mixture problems. I've had an earlier version V8, the 3.6 pt engine, with high oil use and it lasted over 200k miles, but it was a pain to monitor all the time and it did go through O2 sensors and plugs at a higher rate than was normal for that engine.
From the little research I've done on the oil control rings it seems that in most cases improper engine break in, or excessive heat build up will cause the oil control rings to glaze. There are some additives that are supposed to help with this, but I have no experience with them.
After my own experience my reaction now would be to trade the car in.
05-08-2007, 07:51 AM
Audi suggested swtiching to 20W 50 for the summer. In the last 1200 miles that did reduce the oil consumption by almost 1/2. Not sure how happy I should be about it. The fact remains that a car of this level should not be an oil burner at all. Not sure if I should trade it now while it runs 100% or chance it for the next 3-4 years and hope....