Who said that ponies are only for 12 year old girls? All I can say is that APR is awesome. As a fellow observer on AudiWorld I am relatively new to posting... But I had to post to extend my thanks to APR and especially Chris for the magical hand that picked my name!

The reason why this is so crazy for me is because my father (who is quite opposite of being a car enthusiast) decided to buy me an APR Turboback and Carbonio Intake for me for X'mas. He decided that this would be a good time since the sales are going on right now.

So he called me yesterday and I'm thinking: What's going on? He had to break it to me that he had bought me the exhaust and intake... Well, I was really excited already at the fact that he wanted to get me anything for my car. But that wasn't all. He then told me he had entered me into the raffle that was going on and that I had won the Stage III+ kit. This blew my mind due to the fact that I am quite broke right now (just got a house) and all this time I have been trying to think of a way to enter that raffle... So late last night I went to APR's site and there was my name on the left APR box!

So now I can say that I will be joining the small group of lucky people running this kit! Thanks to APR for being the best tuning company out there! Previous to this I had always thought that APR:VW/Audi = Brabus:Mercedes.

Once again, thanks to everyone at APR and have a very Merry Christmas! I know I will!

but with statements lik "Thanks to APR for being the best tuning company out there! Previous to this I had always thought that APR:VW/Audi = Brabus:Mercedes.

you are showing your ignorance, many beleive they are not even the best in US, and the US market is decades behind the Euro turers for Audis. Not a slam on APR tho I wouldnt piss on them if they were on fire, but they cant match MTM/DB/Honester?lehman on any similar chip. But you do get the neat switch chips y cruise control feature. The boxes will begin to keep US tuners out soon, and they will not be able to get the rolling keys to play this way anymore soon. APR makes a good kit for those wantin g to have a little more powerful daily driver, when I bought their test car, the 1st thing I wannted was more power than they have been able to come up with since, I dont fault them for that. But they really dont even make the best 300hp kit,and anyone who has had chips and mods from the better Audi tuners from Europe (who by the way get very generous assistance from VWOA because they also work with them on projects) are a class above, and probably cost more. If you are happy with what you from APR then enjoy it Just dont say they are the best, if you ever get one of those guys aside and ask them it will always be best "for the money' and as long as they admit that they are OK. The do seem to have done the best adverts tho.
Rod

Im a HUGE Dahlback fan...huge, and your message above realy makes me think...he has a point, maybe I should stick with Dahlback and get the 360 kit when I could afford it.
But honstly I dont think i can justfy spending that kind of money when I can get a bolt on turbo, or even a new manifold and turbo and a custom tune for FAR FAR less. Yeah it wont be quite as smooth or refined, but itll be powerfull and reliable.
As for your comment on APR beng good for a little more powerfull daily driver, 333 crank hp is more than "a little more powerfull" than the stock 150 or 170 hp or chipped 190-205 hp. Yes it cant touch your 400+ wheel hp car but you also have built your engine (by the way Im a HUGE fan of your car, almost a a goal that I ahve for mine someday).
Im not much of an APR fan myself, I have their snub mount, thats it, I dont like the way their chip feels compared to GIAC or My Dahlback, and ill never purchase their stage 3 or 3+ (ill either go custom or if I ever have the money, go dahlback), but i do ahve to applaud them for coming up with a 333hp kit that is safe on a stock engine and for the price that it is.

That is just a bit out there. No one should spend what I have in my car if looking for value. And DB has his issues too, but a comparison is just not in the realm of reality. I am looking into standalone or doing motronics just for my car. This isnt a move anyone would do for any reason except for their own satisfaction. I would do the same thing to a Porsche, but thought Audi would be just a touch cheaper. I want to push envelope and have done it with VW's and Fords. Some of us just want to see how far we can go. For a good value APR is fine, but for more money better chips are available. Compare the knock voltage at full chat on an ARP chip to an equivalent MTM/DB or Lehman chip, say a 330kit or a 200hp chip and you will see what I mean. Europeans make much safer chips which usually deliver 10 to 15% more than advertised, but most people do 3 second blasts and enjoy hell out of them and that is fine. But if you track hard, my money is on another piece of silicone. I would have no prob with APR stating it is best for money, but best overall is not something I have seen yet. My distaste for APR is a personal thing that me or APR probably will never go into, but I will give them their due, they make the best cheap stuff out there - and this will do for some, and thats fine with me. My objection is that many think it is best and that is something relatively easy to prove.
Rod

<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/897987.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/897987.phtml</a</li></ul>

I will give this one to APR!

FWIW, I have heard 2nd hand that the eurotuners find this 2l block to be a large piece of Shiz and that may be a part of why the engine chip was not very aggressive, I dont know and dont care about the new cars and ignorance in regard to the new stuff proved me wrong. I hear some of them dont hold no hope for larger HP development for this engine, apparently the block is not nearly as strong as previous iterations of Audi 4 banger. So for this test on a 2l, I stand corrected - and give the Devil his due. But what relevance does this have on the 1.8t development forum - with the exception that I made a blanket statement without specifying the pre-2l stuff (w\ I have no experience with and should have excluded). Has a similar test been done on any 1.8t based engine been done? I would very much like to see that. Apparently the new management at APR got this 1 right for the dyno. I am sure Roland found this personally embarrasing to be bested by APR, I know I would have been mortified.
I stand corrected in regard to b7 2l chips based on this instance. I stand by my previous observations on the 1.8t's however, please show some tests on them so that I can be shown the error of my beleifs, or that my observations are correct - inquiring minds need to know. I make no bones about the assertion that you will never find a test that shows this, but I have been wrong b4 and this is a good example of that. I didnt think they had it in them based on quite a few years of observation.
Rod

tuners is, as usual, unwarranted and unsubstantiated.

Unfortunately, there is a dearth of head to head, same car, same dyno testing reports here so I can't provide links. Of course, that also pretty much dismisses your arguments as drivel. Since it is you who is asserting clear European superiority .. how about you provide proof of your assertions?

I'd also like you to point out where tuners (American or European) state it is their intended goal to offer the most powerful or most agressive chip 'in the class' for any offering they have. Absent this assertion what makes you think that becuase MTM or ABT makes a bit more or a bit less HP than a GIAC or APR offering, somehow signals a superiority or inferiority of that firm? Perhaps MTM made the changes they wished to make and that is that.

By your logic .... Audi doesn't offer a &gt;350 crank HP 1.8t I guess they lack the talent to figure out how to make one huh?

Perhaps many firms have made economic decisions on the basis of the low number of fools willing to spend that level of money on a relatively heavy, slow, nose heavy and sluggish handling A4?

If you wanted really quick you should have opted to trade for Z06, STI, EVO or engine swapped Civic .. . woulda saved a lot of money to boot.

But since I really dont care and just like to stir **** for the most part, I will cease to use the words always and never per your suggestion. And state that the US tuners USUALLY W/Notable EXCEPTION dont make the same quality chips. But since you are in APR's pocket you probably wont agree. I have had Lehman,DB,MTM,T&amp;S tuning and a 2 APR chips. and from my experience APR's do not compare. I think this may be the experience of many who have a basis to compare - USUALLY, not the A word.

My opinions, tuning adventures, and car are so far removed from the experience of most Audiworlders that I have decided to quit commenting on anyones chips, or car setup. I will just post my #'s and times when I am done and give them something to shoot at. BTW, I am glad you finally found a compare someone approved to post, I know of many and if you or APR really want to prove something rent an independant dyno and run some back to back APR and MTM/DB, etc. comparos for B5's. I have seen plenty of them after the APR chips were removed and stand by my views/opinions.
ALWAYS Rod

Just because I happen to have an APR product doesn't mean I am in 'their pocket'.

If you spouted in favor of APR the same way as you do against them, I'd be just as compelled to point out the flaws and errors in your tripe.

I'd like to believe you have "decided to quit commenting on anyones chips or car setup". Somehow I doubt your need to pontificate will allow us the bliss of your silence.

Peace B wiff you my brotha!
Rod

A400 this guy comes on and says he won a STAGE 3+ kit, just for buying an exhaust and you want to rain on his parade with your bull****. Are you saying you wouldnt be excited if you won a stage 3+ kit
would you throw it in the trash because its APR?
no you wouldnt, and you sure as hell woulnt trash on APR ever again.
you seriously need to get your head examined this guy is excited he just DOUBLED his horsepower and then some because of APR having this giveaway, and he said some nice things about them that were his opinions, keep your negative BS off this forum

Rod, please don't paint us into a corner because you bought one of our worn out test mules.

<B>..the US market is decades behind the Euro turers for Audis.</B>

Sorry, but you could not be more wrong on this one. This is a common misconception but the truth is actually just the opposite. The American market is much more lucrative for serious Audi/VW tuning. The European market is more focused on aesthetic items such as body kits and <B>mild</B> performance enhancers- chips, exhausts. Think about it, when is the last time an innovation came from a German tuner? Last I can recall would be the fabulous work done by Oettinger in the 80's (whom we now own btw.) Most of the companies you mentioned outsource all of their serious design work such as CAD (we do ours in-house.) Their chips are created using tools sold to them by a few companies (EVC, etc.) that are setup to serve the "tuner" market- <B>NOT FROM THE FACTORY</B>. They rely solely on these companies to keep them in the chip market. APR and GIAC (I hope they don't mind me mentioning them), both American companies, create their <B>OWN</B> software tools and <B>DO NOT</B> rely on these aftermarket suppliers for any of their tools. Our familiarity with the Motronic system is completely outside the league of the companies that you mentioned. This is because we employ people who specialize in engine calibration AND programming rather than rely on outsiders. We are able to get more power because our chips are more sophisticated and we go deeper into the Motronic system. You say that Roland should be embarrassed. Well I would be embarrassed should the opposite have happened in the comparison mentioned.


Brett
APR

I have said I would refrain with comments on other peoples setups and I certainly plan on doing that. But as much as I do not agree with you, I know that some of what you have stated regarding having an inside track with Audi IS something certain German tuners do have, and they do call Audi engineers who designed the systems to find out exactly how they work and what the limits of the systems are. I guess now that now you also have these inside tracks, and the expertise to use them. I did give you credit for the 2l tuning which is much more than I would have ever thought you would acheive.

As you said the US tuning market is much more lucrative, and making money is a great objective. Make on!

As far as painting you into a corner, I am not holding the brush, you are. I am stating my opinions and until you do a lot more than I have seen so far, they wont change. And as far as the car you sold me being tired (and tired was not the the only word- sloppy beyond reason and safety enter my mind), this is one of the main reasons I have such a low opinion of your company. The standards of work on that machine were so low that I am afraid they led me to beleive your standards were too low for me to bother with! And when I saw back to back comparos on chips I also didnt get big fuzzys, and when I saw the knock tolerances you at least used to run, it completed my view. I am big on personal experience and my personal experience with you is reflected in my publicly shared opinions. Why do you guys care what I think and say anyway? I dont run the 300hp kits you guys make and even if you were able to make a chip to run at the power levels that I am interested in, from what I have seen they would die on the dyno before the tests were done, but then that is public record from past and I am sure I dont need to dwell on that. I have said I would back off chips and tuning with my experience and opinions, be satisfied that I have said what I feel is true - this really isnt much fun anymore. Do your thing, the informed people will make their choices, and the masses will read the advertisements and buy based on some level of beleif.
I quit, I cant say more than I already have.
Rod

Opinions do vary, but the difference here is that yours is an opinion, mine is truth based on fact. I am directly involved in the industry and I know what our competitors are capable of. I have been to these companies personally. Their abilities are WAY, WAY overestimated and the American companies are sometimes unjustly underestimated by some. The lack of innovation from our German counterparts speaks for itself. Funny thing is that many of these companies have attempted to license our technologies.

Brett
APR

for U guys from what you are saying. U know, I have a degree in computer science and from what I have seen even the fastest supercomputers dont do much if the programmer doesnt know how to accomplish the task. Show me some impressive tuning, push an edge and maybe you will impress me. Make 500wheel HP and torque that lasts 6 hours at full chat and you will have my attention. Educate me by telling me what engine parameter that you look at that everyone isnt aware of and already doing. Build a 4" x 4" intercooler that cools like my 30" x 24". Start publishing in SAE your new and revolutionary tuning methods. Show me you are more than someone who can type and advertise. An engine is an air pump and so far that is all I have seen from you guys! I am willing not only to learn but to admit my mistakes, show me something, it sounds like noise right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rod

Look at the innovations that we have brought to the market and then look at those from our European competitors. They have been stagnant. We never said that we were ready for Formula 1. I was merely correcting some erroneous statements that you made regarding the industry and American versus European tuners.

I truly believe that when it comes to comparing the talent at APR and our accomplishments in recent years to our German counterparts there is no comparison. They are stale and haven't brought anything new to the market in years. Heck, look at the turbo technology used on their turbo kits (if you care to call one-off fabrications "kits".) If it wasn't for their geographical advantage and the uninformed public I don't know what much they would have at this point. As their old faithful loses interest and the sole allure of being "European" continues to diminish they will either have to completely revamp themselves and hire in some new talent or face a serious "butt-whipping" from the boys from Auburn, AL and others. (With Oettinger, we now have a name that we can market in Europe and with our new facility we will be able to do alot of things that were not possible before. We have already seen some desperate actions by one of the large names over there in fear of our DPP system that we are now marketing through the Oettinger name.)

Brett
APR

And like I said in an earlier mail, show mw something that makes power and lasts.
The greatest technology in the world means nothing unless you know how to tune a car, and this has been true for a long time, and I dont look for it to change. You may be right about the German tech. who still burn chips and socket them and use KKK turbos. But they can tune a car to a fine line when they wish too. The #'s are out there and with verifiable figures I havent seen from you guys. The chips are safer (knock)and perform better for the 1.8t's and I5's. You are selling futures and I still havent seen the products to back up your claims.
My eyes are wide open, the Japanese make stuff you guys probably reverse engineer, but even when you have all these tools you still need to use them to extract the power from the engines - this is what I havent seen from you - and which has always been consistent with the tuners I am familiar with - they get you power! Being engineers has worked against you in this instance, a good gearhead who learns to use engineering tools will always be waay ahead in my experience. I didnt see a lot of dirty hands in Georgia when I was in your shop.
I am moving beyond depending on any euro or american tuner to program my car - going standalone - even tho I am able to get what I want with the custom programming. I am frustrated with the time it takes for each new step. So this entire discussion is becoming non-meaningful to me as I wont be worrying about what either of you are doing when I install standalone. So all this discussion is for someone else, but up until the 2l B7's you guys havent made the best products. If you now have someone who is a tuner and not an engineer trying to be a tuner, and the great new SW tuning tools that you say, then go back and make some decent chips that dont knock and make some real power! The guys on this list will then be justified in kissing your butts, and you will have walked the walk that matches your talk. You are sounding like typical engineers talking about your great science while your buildings collapse.
SOOOOO I will end my portion of this diatribe, and say put up or shut up. Re-engeneer some of your old chips to be competitive and then you will be doing your customers a favor, and give them a real deal to upgrade. I am beyond needing your help, but most would appreciate your backing up the talk. I would be happy to view your product as inexpensive rather than cheap, and will give you the credit you deserve if you do. Try to be more like Javad at 034-efi or Roy Hall at Autronics and let your product exceed the hype.
Please surprise me, show me you can do more than you say. I will give you credit when you do!
Rod

Tell everyone how I am wrong! What innovations! What #'s! Hot air only pulls back timing. I am finding this rather typical of your company, and being a good 'Merikan, I want you to lead - not the Europeans - but the track record refutes your statements to date. This is giving you a chance to tout your tech. and newly found expertise - go for it, I beleive people can change.

Give examples! I am giving you a chance to give examples of your superior technologies. What have you done to improve the state of Audi tuning? This if your forum, give examples, this is your chance. Throw it out and let your public decide. You guys are the engineers, dazzle us with your innovation! Tell me about the new secret tuning methods. I will give you your due if it is deserved!
Last comment whatever you reply. Your chance to say what you wish without an informed comeback. Put it on paper - then live up to it and you will be my heros. And my apologies for refering to you as being GA boyz, I am sure you AL boyz resent this. But no matter what I will never buy a used car in Alabama again.
Rod

I guess you have been too blinded by other companies to really look at our innovations and technologies in the last few years to see what we are really doing. NO other company has grown and reinvested in the company like APR has in the last few years. NO other Audi/VW company designs cast components on a regular basis like we do. NO other company in the INDUSTRY has come up with tuning, program switching, and flashing on the same level that we have. Even you would be amazed by some of the internal tools we have developed. I can go on and on...

Our chip software, like the company, has evolved over the years... A couple of years ago, I would say we were 2nd overall in terms of overall power, but a clear first in terms of smoothness and drivability. With some of the developments we have done in the last year, I feel we are on top of the pack on both respects now. Honestly, have you driven a newer Stage III+ car? What about some of our ME9 software??

Getting back to the company philosophy, we are NOT out to make the highest horsepower on our turbo kits. Who give a crap about a car that makes 500whp and lasts for 6 hours?? Most customers are FAAAR more impressed by a bolt on turbokit that makes 300whp and lasts for 300K miles with factory-like reliability and drivability. This is made possible through using 21st century technology, not carryover parts from the 1980's.

Do not base your opinion of us on your experiences from many years ago. Look at what we are doing now and where we are going, and I think even you will be surprised.

I post on Perf. and Tuning and 1.8t development and Kreummer forums. I do not comment on 'smoothness' and non-power parts. I have also given due on the ONLY chip I am aware you have outperformed the other tuners on. I dont comment on the B5 forum and disturb those who want what you sell. The reason I moved to Audis years ago was that the 2 wh. drive platforms I drove couldnt handle the power I was putting in my engines so I moved to an all wh. platform, then couldnt get the power I wanted. I then started working with the Germans and obtained good power and driveability and got 500 crank from the I5's. I then bought your car after wrecking the URS4. I was not impressed with your 3+ package and sought more and better power, I easily found it and am now in territory that even the Euros cant help much with - so I will go standalone. I think it is fine that you produce everyman power, but so do all the tuners. I also have not been as impressed as you are with your chips when compared with the DB's I am familiar with. The tools you use dont matter to me, the end results do! Tuning a car is an art and there are really only a few that have mastered it. The tools out there to the public via standalone and the tuners thru motronic to adjust every important parameter, the tuner reputation is in what they do with the tools. You havent matched up on the 1.8t's and that is my bottom line point. I dont care how smooth your cars are as the levels of tune you strive for are what I see as "snow tune".

My car is daily run with 420 hp and 400 torque at the wheels on pump gas, considerably more on race, and this is on a modified motronic chip, socketed if you please and is extremely driveable even at hi output. I have no intent to deceive my dealer with a SW switching, when this car pulls into the shop everyone knows it is highly modified. Never once have I said your stuff was not great to drive around with a little more perf.. I object to you and your yip dogs claiming most powerful and best. You may now be, but you havent in the past. I will not have experience with your new stuff bcause I dont like the new cars, and you will never do chips that require a 20k block and the custom fabbed and welded pieces that are required to get er done at my level.Im OK with that, I never expected you to. I do object to the blanket statements of superiority your people state on the lists. You havent done that and I usually only enter the fray when I hear such Bull****. This is the 1st reasonable post I have read from your company where you state you havent been at the top level, and that pure performance is not your goal. This is good, and this is a fine 1st step. I hope you do well with your new philosophy and direction. But I have never attacked you for this, only in regard to statements on 'best chips, most powerful, etc.'.
Good luck, we are not on the same track and I thought I had made that clear to everyone on the list that I was looking to go cutting edge and not middle of pack.
Please lets rest this thread. I wish you luck on everymans chip, and products. I will be making my own when need arises. And by the way, when you can do an engine that will run at 7000rpm making over 550crank and do it for 6 continous hours like mine then you will have done a truly impressive machine that anyone would want if they know enough about it.
Bye bye and good luck, you have stated a clear course for your company, communicate it to your customers so that they dont state 'ultimate perf. crap' and all these words will have been worth my effort.
Rod

I would like to see a graph of your engine running at that power for 6 hours straight. I severly doubt your turbo was at full spool for 6 hours non-stop to produce those power levels....if so please show us... that would be very impressive especially with the amount of gas consumption I am sure that requires.

You really are out of place in your statements...
First, what you have SPENT your money on, not developed is a nice setup, and I can understand your constant need to justify its "superiority" to the masses given the amount of money you put into it.
You point that APR doesn't know how to tune a car I find to be very uneducated... fact is the gearhead type tuners, and non-engineers you are referring to generally work with the just one or two tables (air/fuel and timing tables) and make a chip that drives and works, not necessarily within all the stock like parameters. Third, you continue to base your opinions of APR on the test mule you bought. It wasnt a race car, it wasnt a production car... it was a "hey let's try this" car...that was pretty much treated like most people treat a winter beater...

Finally I dont think APR has ever claimed to be the highest power chip on the market... fact is most people look at peak numbers and not area under the curve (that's what makes speed) Each tuner has a "style" some want to ride the hairy line, where the car's response is semi-erradic but "within the limits" others tune for smoothness... Everyone has their tastes.

I'm glad you are going to stand alone on your car...but I have to ask why? You have a dahlback kit, and you continually claim they make the best tuning, can't be compared to, and are the only ones that know how to tune a car... if so why are you looking to go to standalone that will have more variables, and you will have to learn to use?

we cant fight each other when weve got a much bigger battle of **** talking to win, and thats trashing american cars...

btw
the mtm chip makes 183 hp
the dahlback chip makes 193 hp
the apr chip makes 200 to 208 depending on the variant of 1.8t

WJM wrote:
"I would like to see a graph of your engine running at that power for 6 hours straight. I severly doubt your turbo was at full spool for 6 hours non-stop to produce those power levels....if so please show us... that would be very impressive especially with the amount of gas consumption I am sure that requires."

Of course I never ran this car on a dynop for 6 continous hours, but the block was built to run a 24 hour endurance race, and I personally beleive it would. I did not mean to imply mine was tested at this level. It was more a response to Tom/APR's statement:
"Who give a crap about a car that makes 500whp and lasts for 6 hours??"

And my point was that anyone who knew about engines would want this - altho few would pay to have it done at that level.

Your other comment:
"First, what you have SPENT your money on, not developed is a nice setup, and I can understand your constant need to justify its "superiority" to the masses given the amount of money you put into it."
I have not merely spent, I was very involved in the development of the block to handle 600WHP and wind to 9000rpm, including all aspects of the specs, prep and components. Also quite a few parts on this car were developed for this car, and have subsequently been made available for purchase. The superiority of this block has more to do with the work done up front than the amount of money I spent on it, and I really dont feel a need to justify it to anyone. Its my money, I earned it and will spend it any way I choose without a need for approval. I enjoy pushing the edge upward.

Addressing another point in you post:
"Finally I dont think APR has ever claimed to be the highest power chip on the market... fact is most people look at peak numbers and not area under the curve (that's what makes speed)."

My main problem is not what APR has said but what the people say about their product.. The coments I have read here point to their superiority, which has not been shown or can be proven, as a matter of fact quite a few comparisons I know of show otherwise.

You also said:
"fact is the gearhead type tuners, and non-engineers you are referring to generally work with the just one or two tables (air/fuel and timing tables) and make a chip that drives and works, not necessarily within all the stock like parameters."

All I can say is you know a lower class of gearhead than I hang with. Those I know tune with Autronic, Motec, FAST, etc. and use and understand all the parameters availabe from current engine sensors. I dont know how much you have worked with engineers who dont know cars but I find they are very good at doing solutions that dont have problems, the gearheads are very familiar with the problems and find ways to use engineering to solve them.

Lastly you asked/commented:

"I'm glad you are going to stand alone on your car...but I have to ask why? You have a dahlback kit, and you continually claim they make the best tuning, can't be compared to, and are the only ones that know how to tune a car... if so why are you looking to go to standalone that will have more variables, and you will have to learn to use?"

I have to this point have used a DB chip 'off the shelf" and available for you to purchase rated at 420 crank. I have tested this chip to 419whp. Admittedly using one of the strongest blocks built for this app. and parts that were done for pure perf., but what other tuners offer a chip that even comes close? DB chips normally test close to 20% higher than they claim with excellent driveability and less knock voltage (about half).
As to the reason why I am going standalone, 1st I am going to a Garrett turbo which go's beyond the level of anything DB has made. Why would I wish to do dyno runs here, send info there and wait for new chips when I can do whatever he does while the car is on the dyno. Also, motronic will not wind the engine above 7200 rpm. I have done Motec engines and embrace the parameters and adjustability it offers, I certainly dont see this as a disadvantage. Also, flat shift, launch control, better fuel and timing control, etc, etc are not offered with Motronic, even the motorsports stuff to my knowledge.

Bottom line, I dont have a problem with APR doing what they said in the last message, everymans car. I do have a problem with the unrealistic and untrue claims that people post for those who dont have the knowledge to sift thru.

I quit, I have aired my points. I will go my own way knowing few will follow. I will post my #'s and the innovations I choose to share. I will make no more replys to this thread as it has gone too far as it is. I can think of only 5-6 on this list who have any wish to go where we are now let alone where we are going, so as I have said before AW'ers can spread the manure without my further comments.
Rod

sh!t. Rod, best of luck...hope it works out well for ya (being serious). My question, after reading all this yelling back and forth, what are you building your car for. Track..drag...play thing. I'm just curious.

hung the moon. he used to be like that with APR. but has always had a "someone pissed in my wheaties attitude."

Right now I am running their chip and I am very pleased. It is very smooth and consistent. As far as safety goes I think APR tunes more on the conservative side. The rev limiter on my chip is 6800. Other tuners out there have the rev limiters at 7100! That is insanely high for a car with a K03. Not only are you on the verge of valve float, but the car isn't even making any power in that rpm range due to the fact that the stock turbo can't sustain boost levels up there.

I like APR. I call them a lot actaully and they are always helpful. I just got their motorsport hoses for xmas and next on the list is a ful exhaust system.