After reading and searching around, it seems that most if not all pads that people are mentioning in this forum have pluses and minuses at the same time.
In this respect, is there a brand that actually generates less dust than the OEMs usable for street driving that doesn't "warp" the rotors, doesn't squeal, has decent bite cold and hot, etc.?
Can somebody suggest a solution? Thanks.
MikekiM@PureMS
04-24-2005, 11:42 AM
You have to decide just what you're willing to put up with, and rank your priorities. What you're asking for is the perfect brake pad, and unfortunately no such pad exists. There are many that are really close like the Carbotech Bobcat, but at times they can let out a few chirps during braking.
rovision
04-24-2005, 12:30 PM
Thanks for your reply. I understand there are trade-offs, like with tires, or else. My priority is to find a pad that has less brake dust as the OEMs which while have good bite, are impossible in terms of cleaning the wheels every week. I don't mind that much about squeals, but expect a decent braking job. From what I've read, the better pads that some people reffer to on this forum differ to the OEMs in shorter braking distances in the range of a few feet! That in my mind is not a good reason enough for the extra price or other trade-offs. Remember, I'm talking normal street driving, not tracking, racing, or even street racing.
I haven't read about a single pad brand that perfoms equally well for more than 1-2 people! So, any suggestions please!?
eric strauss
04-24-2005, 05:16 PM
I have similar expectations and the dusting issue is irritating..
Here are the fitments of aftermarket pads that I have used....
1998 3-Series BMW with big sport-package brakes: EBC Greenstuff
2001 Audi TT 225hp: EBC Greenstuff
2002 Saab Aero: EBC Greenstuff
2003 Saab Aero: Satisfied Pro Ceramic composite
2004 Audi A6 2.7T S-Line: still OEM, but not for long- prbably the Hawk Street Performance pads from Tire Rack.
Best wishes
Eric
LCP
04-25-2005, 09:27 PM
...than OEM, but still not great.
rovision
04-26-2005, 09:03 AM
MikekiM@PureMS
04-26-2005, 09:12 AM
Certainly not the case with my set. Wake up the dead with them at low speed.
LCP
04-26-2005, 08:22 PM
kday
04-27-2005, 03:18 PM
On my ur-S4 I went from stock G60s and stock pads to 928GTS big blacks and Hawk HPS. The amount of dust increased dramatically.
rovision
04-27-2005, 08:07 PM
I guess the only way to find out is to try it yourself! Looks like nobody is satisfied with whatever pads they have or had. Sure, all things being equal, it comes to your personal driving style, so no consensus ever on pads.
LCP
04-27-2005, 09:15 PM
ryoung
04-28-2005, 07:52 AM
I'm sure that there's more. Reread Mike's "always tradeoff" post, and rank these priorities in order.
1. Overall coefficient of friction
2. Coefficient of friction versus temperature
3. Coefficient of friction versus speed
4. Initial bite
5. Release characteristics
6. Behavior at fade
7. Thermal conductivity
8. Compressibility
9. Noise
10. Pad wear
11. Rotor Wear
12. Brake dust, quantity
13. Brake dust, quality
Since a good performance pad that will do well with 1-8, and a good street pad will do well with 9-13, you don't want to intermingle the two groups very much. With so many ways to rank so many priorities, it should be no wonder that people have different pad preferences.
rovision
04-28-2005, 09:40 AM
That looks like a comprehensive list of general characteristics for pads. Now, if the manufacturers would test them in standard conditions, we would probably have a much better idea of which ones are better. As far as I know they don't, or haven't read anything about a test like this, it comes to every person's experience. And as said, a lot of subjective differences as driving style and driving conditions.
Now, there are only a few pad brands and models that people seem to talk about in this forum at least. Out of these, some are expensive, some are less. I wonder if the most expensive are so much better than the average priced brands/models, to warrant the extra expense?
Would be nice if this forum would support a long term poll based on personal experience, so that in time you could have a better idea what to buy. At least you could get an average of opinions on certain brands.
ryoung
04-28-2005, 10:27 AM
Finding published test results is difficult, and finding results from industry standard tests is impossible. I've been using Ferodo and Pagid pads because at least friction data is available, like <a href="http://www.federal-mogul.com/cda/content/front/0,2194,2442_261268_11223,00.html">This</a> from Ferodo or the Pagid chart below. Cobalt Friction also publishes data, but I'm not interested in their pads that fit my calipers.
Now, there're bits and pieces of useful info in this forum, but nobody to put them all together. And we all know that search is not nice!?
In the tech section are some good old write-ups on brakes, mostly how-to's. Why can't somebody just put together also a "what-to"?
Maybe a list of most commonly used pads for our cars where people can add their comments/reviews periodically. I guess slowly that could grow into a reference.
ryoung
04-28-2005, 03:03 PM
A few industry standards actually do exist.
1. If literature on a pad says that it has European R90 approval, it means that the pad's coefficient of friction is within 10% of the original equipment pad that it's designed to replace. For example, EBC Greenstuff pads are R90 approved. Since most high performance pads have much more than a 10% improvement in friction, an R90 approval guarantees mediocracy ... which is why I forgot to mention it earlier.
2. For pads targeted at the U.S. market, there's the SAE "Edge Codes", the pair of letters stamped into the edge of the pad's backing plate. The two letters may or may not be the same and indicate the coefficient of friction of the pad compound; the 1st letter at 250 oF, and the 2nd letter at 600 oF. The cf is ...
"FF" means the cf is between 0.35 and 0.45 at both 250 and 600 oF.
"FE" means the cf is 0.35-0.45 @ 250 oF and 0.25-0.35 @ 600 oF; i.e., this pad definitely fades when hot, even though 600 oF isn't really that hot for a brake pad. On track, 1000 oF is not uncommon.
I believe most Audi OE pads are a boring EE. Edge codes are optional, and many/most European pads do not use them ... which is why I forgot to mention this earlier.
ryoung
04-28-2005, 03:18 PM
One of my earlier posts contained the link to my experience.
You're right, a long term brake pad poll would be difficult on audiworld. Probably the best you could do is poll a single pad in a busy forum and then eventually summarize the results here. For example, ask for opinions (dust, noise, grip, etc) about the Hawk HPS in the B5 S5 forum. In the summary here, just include a link back to the original poll.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/a8/msgs/81590.phtml">10 pads on an S8</a></li></ul>
pjorg
05-03-2005, 12:21 PM
For normal street driving the EBC Greestuff pads are great IMHO. Very low dust, good initial bite and very rotor friendly.
However - Greenstuff pads are NOT suited for any level of track use.