I have a broken toe so I asked the BMW salesman at South Bay BMW in Torrance to drive while I observed from the passenger seat. The car was a Sport Package 6-speed manual in metallic gray (similar to A4 Quartz gray) with black interior and aluminum trim. This car is a beast. I have driven my cousin's 2004 340-hp S4 Tiptronic and this Bimmer is noticebaly quicker. The car handles like it's on rails too. The salesman had me a litle scared driving like a maniac, going 100+ in a 40 mph zone, but I definitely found out this is more than enough car for me. It felt very similar in acceleration to the RS 4 I sat in at the Streets of Tomorrow event in LA a few months back.

IMO, the exterior of the car is by far superior to any BMW model recently designed by Chris Bangle and Adrian van Hooydonk. The interior ergonomics leave some to be desired (sparse instrument panel, lousy cupholders and poor placement of window switches) but all that can be overlooked when the car is in motion. By the way, the 2007 model has gotten rid of the useless MPG gauge and replaced it with an engine coolant temeprature gauge.

The sedan 330i parked next to this coupe looked like crap, but unfortunately I can't gt a coupe with 2 small kids. I just have to wrestle with the looks of the 328i/335i sedan to see if I can learn to like them. I will still give the 2008 A4 3.2 quattro 6MT a chance when my lease is up, but I have a feeling it will come nowhere near the 335i in power.

I agree as far as looks, exterior and interior are kinda ugly in the new 3 series.

but i disagree with the 335i being noticeably quicker then the S4. maybe in this case cause your comparing a manual to a tip, but if both are manual they are very similiar.
I have test drove both, but I have not test drove the RS4 , but i dont see how the 335i is very similiar in accelaration, since the outgoing M3 is quicker then the 335i and that couldn't keep up with the RS4.

i think this 335 is bmw's answer to the S4, and the new M3 is going to be the bmw equivalent to the RS4

this competition is awesome, cant wait to see what they do next!

Not that it will not be a great car because it sounds like it is.... but it seems they could have some issues.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/lrqc/msgs/84866.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/lrqc/msgs/84866.phtml</a</li></ul>

<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2502202.phtml">turbo lady!</a></li></ul>

competitor comes along and redoes his car to be better. I have full confidence Audi is well aware of the competition and the B8 will be something to behold. I just wish they'd switch to RWD.

no way in HELL is the 330 anywhere near as fast as the rs4. The 330 has similar ( but lower) power numbers to the e46 m3. The rs4 kicks the living sh*t out of the m3 CSL version which is a super lightweight( carbon fiber roof, no AC, no spare, race tires, cardboard trunk liner etc) race track ready, euro only model with a small bump in HP. The rs simply DESTROYS the m3 in a straight line race.

I've seen the 330 at 5.0 for 0-60. The rs4 has been clocked at 4.3 for 0-60. That's a very big difference. I agree that the 330 is a very quick car and compares favorably to the s4 (which it is supposed to BTW). Comparing the 330 to the rs4 in any way is pretty ridiculous. Perhaps your happiness with the 330 clouds your judgement.

When I test drove the 550, I had to go into nested menu's to put some air on my feet. Show stopper for me - I couldn't live with that crap for a daily driver.

330? You must mean the "335I" has similiar numbers to the M3, and it actually runs right with it, edge to E46 M3. You're right though neither stock vs. stock should beat the RS4, but it's closer than you think.

However, the M3 "CSL" lightweight version will beat the RS4 on a track and a straight line it's pretty even. There has yet to be a head to head comparo of the two cars though.


The regular "CS" (Euro) or (ZCP USA) "competition package" is what the RS4 ran against in that top gear/fifth gear video, wet track and all, lol. It is not the lightweight/more powerful version of the M3, only 17 more BHP, BTW. Also who drag races on a wet track? Of course the AWD car will win, pointless comparo.

In my real world experiences the new RS4 is not much faster if at all then my M3 or the BT A4's out there, with just a set of 3.91 gears really, the RS4 has 4.10's BTW, and I hit a 12.89. Most RS4's are low 13's in mag tests and a 12.8 in R&amp;T.

So the new RS4 in no way kicks the living **** out of or destroys the M3 in a straight line. Evo magazine said it was close, more than a few stock M3's have matched or bettered those RS4 #'s. But you're right, in most cases the RS4 will walk away.

The 335I with a simple ECU reflash probably will walk the RS4 and E46 M3. :(

You have to look at S4 vs. 335. Speed wise, as others have said, RS4 will kick the living crap out of 335. S4 will be very close BUT S4 will have AWD which will let you enjoy this car year round.

I really don't see what Audi is missing out on.

I wouldn't consider even THINKING about chipping this car until BMW makes sure that all of the kinks are worked out and there are guinea pigs on the road for at least a year.
From the sounds of things - they have a few issues that need to be dealt with in the reliability dept. before people jump on the chipping idea. If you have a problematic engine / turbo set-up and then add MORE demand to the car......You're just begging for trouble.

I drove the 335Ci 6spd last Saturday. Great driving car as expected. Here are some thoughts:

Feedback through the connection points was good. Balance, weight transfer and handling were all at the usual BMW level. Engine was great and the lag was minimal at best. Excellent pull through all the range. Brakes were spongey but this was a brand new car off the lot.

Still can't get over the new design though. It is as bland as a brown paper bag both inside and out. It's certainly no E46 330Ci for sure!

I am a big BMW fan and always thought they set the benchmark for steering, handling, balance, feedback and weight transfer...that was until I got my Cayman. Yikes! It makes any BMW feel like I'm driving a Buick LaCrosse. Even the new Mcoupe (which was a great car for 50K btw).

The RS4 was considerably quicker than the 335Ci. No comparison there! The 335Ci was about comparable to a S4 if anything, but with superior dynamics.

Needless to say it utterly demolished all the naturally-aspirated B7 RS4s (and everything else!) on the track at Audi Driver International event in the UK this weekend. :-)

Those are super cars, performance wise, not one bit suprised at the outcome! :) Must have been a total rush/blast for you!

to apples. Car mags usually know very little about launching AWD cars in a "drag race" so their numbers are often underrated. Someone with skills and experience in driving the RS4 will get much better numbers than thouse published by mags, just as you have with your M3. I'm looking strictly at the numbers and a V8 powered RS4 will have no lag and AWD to aid its launch. I highly doubt that even a flashed 335 will be able to beat it in a drag race assuming both are on street tires and both drivers know their respective cars. We're talking similar power and similar weight but a normally aspirated V8 that makes its power up top vs. a turbocharged 6 which runs out of steam at top RPM on a flashed car. On a race track its even worse because of heat soak.

But AWD with a competent driver will launch much better than RWD, especially the M3 which spins it's tires for days without DR's. :(

I have yet to see an owner driven RS4 beat the 12.8 though. My guess is we will see some mid 12's in good condtions/driver, very soon.

Magazines can seem to overate as well. The 997 2s hit a 12.3 at 114.8 MPH in R&amp;T! Most 997s owners have not hit those times.

E36 M3, then B5 S4, then E46 M3, then B6 S4, then slight refreshning with B7 S4.

E36 was top dog, then B5, then E46, then B6/B7. All the mags, my personal test drives have confirmed this too. Its all personal preference, but there is no way of denying all are great cars, just depends on what you want.

Audi will have a response to the 335, but it will be in the S4 department. Stay tuned.

no way was it a low 12s car. I'm guessing 13.0 is about right for a 997 when driven amazingly well. A 997 4S maybe can hit mid-high 12s.

I mean its a nice number and all but how do you know what sort of maximum boost can be supported by stock turbos and if there is enough cooling available to cool those suckers down. Also what about fueling and other things? Look at the B5 S4 and you'll see all the problems people have been having and thats with tried and tested K03 on a V engine where turbos are not in very close proximity to eachother.

I have no plan on looking at another audi unless it is 6cyl. and biturbo for under 45k$.

I would pay up to 50K$ for a 335xi if BMW releases one.

Steptronic is a ~$1200 option. MT is standard.

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/17913/vlcsnap-2566209.jpg"></center><p>
It wasn't close AT ALL. I know you love your m3 but be real here.The RS kicks the **** out of any stock e46 m3. I just watched it and the track wasn't that wet at all. There were a couple damp spots on the track. But not enough be the reason the CS got killed( you can see the damp spots on the right).

It doesn't matter to me what you say you saw or whatever. Who knows what kind of drivers you saw and what skill level they had? Maybe they were **** drivers. The two drivers on Fifth Gear (not Top Gear)are professional racers of similar skill and they race each other all the time on the show's road course. Tiff Needel was driving the Rs4. Jason Plato was driving the CS. They raced about 6 or 7 times and the RS4 WALKED the CS. It's on film. Documented, game over. It's just a fact.

Also they raced on a road course and the rs4 walked again. How can you suggest that the CS will win? I'm starting to think that maybe you are just blind to anything other than BMW. Search it, I'm sure you can find it. Fifth Gear. I have it on my HD. It's a beautiful thing. I never get tired of seeing the m3 get smoked. LOL, JK.

*you are right about it being a CS, my bad, they look the same, my mistake, edited to refect the mistake*

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/17913/vlcsnap-2573881.jpg"></center><p>What little water on the track has almost all dried up as you can see. The rs won the race by a pretty big margin and as shown in the pic it wasn't because of the track being wet because it wasn't. :P

The RS4 won in that one!! Look at my sig, when two cars are close driver plays a big role, I'm not driving the M3 BTW. ;)

"the M3 "CSL" lightweight version will beat the RS4 on a track"

I don't know why you think that. I'm actually not going try and argue my opinion anymore. No matter what I show/prove,you will say that BMW( whatever model) is better than Audi. I learned from all of your AZ posts that you seem to hold your opinion in the highest regard. Cool, your m3 is the best car in the world. Peace.

Never said the M3 CS would/did win, I said it's closer than you think, and the the track was CLEARY WET in the "drag race" also said stock vs. stock the RS4 should win, but not by much, exactly what EVO magazine said. What experience do you have with either car? NONE.

When cars trap similiar, AWD will usually win in the 1/4 mile, in that vid, WET TRACK and all, the RS4 kicked the **** out of the M3 yes, but the comparo is a bit slanted and unrealistic don't you think? Or do you think drag racing on a wet track is a proper/fair way to test these two cars against each other?

Do you drag race in the wet? Come to think of it have you ever drag raced or raced on a road course or do you just watch video's in order to state your opinions as gospel truth? If you believe video's so much why did you question the video that I made against Charlie's car? Easy answer, lol.

Am I bias toward's M3's, you bet I own one, am a realist about these cars as well? Absolutely, I would judge this the same even if I drove an RS4. :)

and it is!!!!! I believe the guy driving the RS4 even says the track is "greasy" is in the vid. You made the incorrect statement that the car in the vid was a CSL when it cleary wasn't.

On a wet or dry track (road coarse) the RS4 should win against the "CS" M3 , and it cleary did in the video. I wasn't talking about the road coarse in the vid with regards to that comparison or the track being wet, but rather the CSL M3 is quicker on a road coarse.

This CSL owner saw the track as "damp" too. But he's just a typical BMW owner. ;)<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/23730.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/23730.phtml</a</li></ul>

I've seen that vid 10 times, I have all the Fifth Gear and Top Gear vids (which is irrelevant, but anyway :p). What is your point about the wet track? The rs4 wins regardless dude. You show me where a csl wins against an rs4. Give me a link or something. Some proof since you are so sure of it.

And I said you were right and I made a mistake about the cs and csl. Why do you keep pounding that point? I admitted my mistake already. You were right. I was wrong.Let it go. lol.

I stick by my thoughts that the rs4 beats any m3 in the quarter and a road course. The csl has 34x hp. The rs4 has about 70 more hp and quattro. But apparently you have experience with CSLs (which I didn't know they brought over here) and rs4s enough to know which car would win , and I know nothing. Here is your quote "What experience do you have with either car? NONE." LOL I didn't know I had to drive a car or see one in person to know which one would win in a race. So if I've never seen a 350z and I've never seen a Zonda, I can't say that I know for a fact that the Zonda will win in a race? Is that how it works?

Last thing I will say is that you used to seem like a reasonable, very intelligent,cool ass dude.And I'm sure off the boards you still are. But honestly Drew, ever since that **** with Charlie, *seems to me* that all you want to do is talk **** on Audi and prop up BMW. I think you're the one that needs to relax, man. If you dislike Audi so much why do you still post on our boards? Just to come in with your bimmer is better rhetoric? What's the point of that?

I think we're on the same page here, I was just correcting some of the info about the CSL, etc. and the damp or wet track in the vid.

The RS4 whipped the M3 in that vid no denying that, but I explained why in the drag race. I've gotten the **** kicked out of me in a drag race, but then have turned around and beat the same car from a roll, there's lots of variables when going from a dig, a wet or damp track is not ideal for fair results when comparing AWD vs. RWD.

I'm saying stock M3's have ran high 12's low 13's like the RS4 has and trapped the same, so the RS4 doesn't kick the **** out of it in general, that is all. In the vid different story, but that vid is not the absolute truth when comparing both cars. :) My car is pretty much stock except for 3.91 gears I ran a 12.8, most RS4 times have been low 13's, and RS4's have better gearing 4.10's!

I don't hate Audi's, love 'em, I'm considering the RS6 as my next car and think the RS4 is a thing of beauty, just a little slow for what you get performance wise. I think I'm pretty objective, regardless we are all a bit partial to the car we drive and will defend it. Trust me I used to slam M3's when I had my BT A4.

I post on these boards because I enjoy it, and hopefully I have some good info to share on this subject, I certainly do not know it all.

loads of fun though...light with amazing driving dynamics and a turbo 5cyl. mmmmmm yummy.

You should know better......