View Full Version : B7 A4 2.0T FSI Chip Comparison -- Stock -- APR -- MTM Chips Dyno Tested (very long)...


bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 12:39 PM
THE TESTING FACILITY:

The dyno testing comparison was carried out at Auto Motion of Louisville, Kentucky (502) 589-1155. The dyno operator, Brian, assisted in running the Mustang AWD Dynometer. Auto Motion is a full service maintenance, repair, and tuning facility with a separate dyno room consisting of two Mustang Dynometers.

See: www.automotionky.com for more information about the facility.


THE PLAYERS:

Motoren Technik Mayer (MTM) - The MTM programming was obtained by mail from Joe Hoppen Motorsport of Sarasota, Florida (941) 924-6380. Hoppen Motorsport is the sole official US distributor of MTM products. MTM headquarters itself is based in Ingolstadt, Germany not too far away from Audi. The owner/director of MTM is Roland Mayer who has worked as part of Audi's Research and Development division. Mr. Mayer worked on the creation of the brand's 20 valve turbocharged engine. Previously, Mayer worked for Treser Tech AG, whose owner Walter Treser was the father of the Audi Quattro. Joseph Hoppen is the owner/director of Joe Hoppen Motorsport. Mr. Hoppen served as the head of Motorsport & Performance parts and related activities for Volkswagen of America. During his time with Audi, Mr. Hoppen was involved in Audi's highly successful championship winning rally, Pikes Peak Trans-AM and GTO efforts, as well as Porsches Can-AM, Trans-AM and IMSA Camel GT title producing involvements, and the creation of VW's Super Vee formula.

See: www.hoppenmotorsport.com for information about the products.

Audi Performance and Racing (APR) - The APR programming was distributed via high speed internet connection from APR headquarters in Auburn, Alabama (800) 680-7921. According to news archives, APR has been tuning cars as a team since 1997 and today employs over 25 employees. APR began a relationship with Stasis during 2004 and is currently distributing the full lineup of Stasis racing products. The precise structure of APRs personnel is unknown to me only due to my lack of better research, but Ben van Leeuwaarde is the general manager of APR and also works as the general director of APR owned Oettinger Performance GmbH located in central Germany. Stephen Hooks is the current president of APR and has spent time as the crew chief for the IAMG/APR Team Motorola Cup S4. Brett at APR has a degree in mechanical engineering. Tom and Keith are a couple more of the helpful employees of APR. I feel bad I don not know more about the other 20 employees as I have doubtlessly left out several key people. My apologies for that.

See: www.goapr.com for information about the products.


THE PROCEDURES:

1. The stock vehicle was dyno tested October 10th, 2005.

2. During the month of October, I removed my ECU from the vehicle and shipped it to Joe Hoppen Motorsport to receive its MTM flash programming. The ECU was received back 2 days later and reinstalled in the vehicle. The computer was cleared prior to starting the vehicle. The vehicle was driven approximately 200 miles and brought to Auto Motion for the second day of dyno testing on November 3rd, 2005.

3. During the month of November, I flew to Florida to the facility of Joe Hoppen Motorsport where I was present for the ECU to be flashed back to its original stock OEM program that was held in a database by MTM.

4. On December 8th, 2005 I arrived at Auto Motion to have my ECU flash programmed with APR Stock/91/93/100 octane programs. I was present for the flashing of the computer and was instructed on the use of the "flip switch" technology used to switch between programs. The ECU was set to 93 octane mode at that time and was not changed throughout the entirety of this process. The ECU was cleared prior to starting the vehicle and the vehicle was driven approximately 200 miles before it was brought to Auto Motion for the third day of dyno testing on December 10th, 2005.


THE DYNO CONDITIONS:

Vehicle:
The test vehicle (my car) is a 2006 Audi A4 2.0T FSI Quattro 6-speed. The vehicle was first tested on the dynometer on October 10th, 2005. The vehicle had never been flashed or programmed in any other manner. All engine/hardware related components remained stock. Installed on the vehicle already was a Bilstein PSS9 coilover system and Speedline 18x8.5" ET32 wheels with Hankook K104 235/40/18 tires. These components remained on the vehicle throughout the entirety of the three groups of dyno testing days. Air pressure in the tires was checked and held constant prior to each dyno day.

The fuel used for each dyno session was Shell 93 Octane V-Power fuel obtained from Lexington Shell on the corner of Sarno Road and Man O'War in Lexington, Kentucky. The vehicle was dyno tested with approximately 7 gallons of fuel in the tank during each session.

The Dyno:
The vehicle was tested on the same Mustang AWD Dynometer at Auto Motion during each session. Prior to each session, the current ambient conditions were measured and entered into the dyno computer. SAE correction methods were held constant as seen below...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/SAECorrections-1-med.jpg">

The car was placed on the dyno and strapped down using the same number of straps and same strap locations. The same two fans were used during each dyno day. One fan was placed in front of the radiator of the vehicle. The other fan was placed in front of the right intercooler. The following is the vehicle setup on the dyno...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/CarOnDyno-2.jpg">

The vehicle was driven approximately 70 miles to the dyno testing facility on each dyno session. It was then allowed to cool for approximately 20 minutes. The water temps remained up to temp at approximately 90 degrees prior to start. During each session the vehicle was dyno tested initially in third gear, rested for 9 minutes, dyno tested in fourth gear, rested for 9 minutes, and dyno tested again in third gear. The dyno logs for each third run were recorded and printed in an attempt represent real world conditions of the car's performance on the road rather than one shot suicide dyno runs.


THE RESULTS:

The stock dyno session taken October 10th, 2005

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/StockDyno-1c.jpg">

The MTM dyno session taken November 3rd, 2005

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/MTMDyno-1-med.jpg">

The APR dyno session taken December 10th, 2005

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/APRDyno-1-med.jpg">


THE SUMMARY:

All in all this was a great experience and I hope to continue this "shootout" with possibly another software option and definitely added hardware components outlining the progress (hopefully) along the way.

Yes, you are reading the graphs correctly. There was a bit of a surprise in the testing of the MTM chip. Immediately after having installed the ECU back in the car and road testing it, I noticed there did not appear to be much of a difference with the new programming. I than hooked up the Vag-Com 510 to the car and proceeded to data log. What was found was that the car was pulling up to 10 degrees of timing while boost remained at almost stock levels of approximately 14psi peak. I spoke with Mike Hoppen of Hoppen Motorsport and emailed him the logs. It was suggested that the car may have received a tank of poor quality fuel. We were both a bit skeptical of this since the car logged fantastically prior to the ECU installation with the same fuel and the same fuel station was used throughout the testing process. Either way, I ran the tank empty and refueled with a new tank of fuel. The problems persisted. Hoppen Motorsport was very agreeable to offering a full refund and stated they will be emailing the logs to MTM in Germany (something I also did) to rectify the problem. Later, I received a telephone call from Joe Hoppen himself (in more than partial retirement) and he was extremely apologetic and concerned about the results and stated he will be in communication with the head programmers at MTM in Germany and if needed he will have them flown from Germany to the US to do personal troubleshooting on the vehicle if I can bring it to Florida. While the testing results were unfortunate, I can say that this level of customer service goes above and beyond and this is the first time in three cars of having MTM programming I have encountered a problem. Quite the opposite, my 2003 A4 was the first MTM Stage 3 car in the US and ran absolutely perfectly with the 30K miles that were accumulated on it in the high temp Florida conditions it was run including frequent track days and pushing the boost (without the permission of MTM) to 29psi. It is an honor still being part of the MTM extended family.

And now for the obvious winner of this comparison, but first I'd like to say this was my first personal experience testing APR software. I have driven a few vehicles equipped with APR tuning, but that is about the extent of my first hand experience. This experience was a positive one. My thanks go out to the folks at APR for this process going as smoothly as it did and for allowing me the opportunity to test this software. Let's have a look at the numbers one last time...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/Stock-APRDyno-1-med.jpg">

The flash process of having this program installed was far less painful than that of the MTM software. During the installation of the MTM software, I was forced to literally grind off the chastity belt of the ECU due to a new chastity belt design that now covers the ECU sockets and is then security bolted directly into the case of the ECU. The flash from APR was accomplished via a new for the B7 me9 computer system cable. The cable is connected to the distributor's laptop computer which is connected via high speed internet to a secure APR flashing server. The flash process took 19 minutes once connected. The power was immediately noticeable on the way home from the shop. The pull in first and second gear was enough to spin the four wheels all the way through first and part of second gear in the wet weather we have been having. On dry pavement the car simply pulls...and it pulls strong. One of the drawbacks that remain is the perceived lack of top end power ONLY in the top two gears. I have to assume this phenomenon that is present in the stock and chipped car may be a result of me being used to a previous car running with no catalytic converter and a 3" exhaust system. Interestingly, the B7 A4 retains an almost identically sized exhaust as the B6 A4 and also uses a 2 stage catalytic converter. This while making an additional 4psi of boost in stock form, having an additional .2liter of displacement, and having a significantly higher compression ratio. Needless to say, I can't wait for some tuners to have a seriously larger exhaust and an under car mounted hi-flow catalytic converter option that takes into account the difference between the B6 and B7.

Thank you to the folks at APR, MTM, and Auto Motion for making this a fun process.

As always...cheers! Mike

crew219
12-10-2005, 12:50 PM

FCastigl
12-10-2005, 01:02 PM
something you like more?

bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 01:06 PM
to go back to their programming after trying another flash program than I would be more than interested in trying Revo. cheers! Mike

PDXA4
12-10-2005, 01:18 PM

speed13
12-10-2005, 02:19 PM
With about 5 minutes cool down. See what happens at about 5400 RPM on the third run

bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 02:47 PM
The runs posted were all taken 9 minutes after a 4th gear pull so it was a bit heat soaked. There was one day we screwed around and did some runs afterwards so i'll go check. What did you see? cheers! Mike

AudiAddict B7
12-10-2005, 02:49 PM

bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 04:06 PM

cpurick
12-10-2005, 04:40 PM

bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 04:43 PM

Ben@APR
12-10-2005, 05:04 PM
It is not slated for release just yet, since we are adding more functionality to it. It is a very powerfull tool that at this moment only APR has and we have been using to help calibrate all of the ME9 ECU's with.

bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 05:09 PM
ive been talking with ross-tech about this in the past when I first got it and we're not sure what's up. May need a more powerful laptop. Thanks again for all your companies work and get some rest from all that jet lag you must be having nowadays :) cheers! mike

bhvrdr
12-10-2005, 07:47 PM
wonder why that happens? Poor intercooling? Poor exhaust? Intake inefficiency? I was able to snag some baseline logs that were secussful with vag com (its really acting up on the B7) and i noticed the stock programming runs a bit richer than the B6. Looks like in the upper RPMs the injector on time stays steady or reduces while the fuel a/f indicats it gets richer making me think there is less air getting into the system. MAF seems to indicate this as well staying more steady in the upper RPMs rather than climing as steadily. What you think? Is there a problem with intake plumbing or is the boost bypassing or something else I have no idea about, hehe? cheers! mike

R32Mathieu
12-11-2005, 06:03 AM

mksap11
12-11-2005, 06:08 AM
But I've been doing fairly basic stuff. I'm using a moderately powerful laptop (ThinkPad T40 2373-4CU) and a HEX-COM+USB cable.

Mike

bhvrdr
12-11-2005, 08:57 AM
but my computer is a 166mmx with 128mb of ram. It is used only as a datalogging computer so it has bacically no programs on it. I still wonder if it might be getting to slow for the new software. I hate to think that though bc it works great with the 311 software. Ug. cheers! MIke

mksap11
12-11-2005, 09:36 AM
I'm running a pretty stripped down version of WinXP (my preference, not because of VAG-COM) and runs beautifully with a USB connection.

If you hit the sales just right, you can pick up a basic Dell laptop for under $500. Not sure if those include serial ports, though. If not, you'd also have to upgrade your cable to a USB one

Mike

Flounderasu
12-11-2005, 01:38 PM
I was going to get my GIAC flash done, but I'm waiting until after the holidays.....But I might wait a little longer if you're going to test these =)