Claim they are the same performance numbers they got with the current M3. This compares to 5.1/13.3 for the S4. If and when there is a Dinan ECU flash,(which retains the factory warranty)these numbers will get even better! The S4s will have a tough time keeping up. PLUS, the 40-70 mph times of the 335i are supposed to be significantly better than the M3 due to the turbo. Not posting this to put down the S4(which I love). Only trying to show that BMW would appear to hold a performance edge in the dry. AND the 335i is now the direct competitor to the S4 not the M3 which will compete against the RS4. Also note that the BMW will cost about $5k LESS than an S4, plus the turbo engine will also be available in the 4 door 3 series sedan. Not sure when it will make it into the AWD 335ix model, but that probably will not be that far off. As a final blow, 29-30 mpg highway/ 20-21 mpg city non AWD. It looks to me that Audi has some serious competition here. Another factor to consider is that since BMWs seem to hold their value better than Audis, lease rates will be better and car will hold its value better than our Audis have. All you BMW haters, let the flaming begin! I still love my S4 but it does have some aspects that could be improved! B6/B7s S4s have been virtually the same car for 4 model years.

the real kick in the pants to audi is that the new M3's price is "set" at 53 grand (say fully loaded mid 60s) under cutting the rs4 by quite a bit, and god knows the rates are going to be better.
I bought the s4 because it was the car that pulled at my heart strings for years, It was somthing different. Everyone and their mom around here seems to own an M3 and it looks like thats going to be the case with this new one and the 335. The "different" factor is becoming harder and harder to argue with the Bavarians pulling numbers like these. Audi has until 2008 to pull somthing magnificent out of their ass before i jump ship.

compare the 335ix sedan to the S4....if and when it ever exists.

it is one year out(minimum). That car may just have brought the S4 down out of M3 territory. come on audi bring back snails!!

Wait until the B8 comes out.

First, it's going to be a revolutionary car for Audi.

Second, they do have a prototype V6 twin turbo and a prototype supercharged V6 working so maybe they will be forced to go back to a blown v6 because of BMW.

Third, if they don't pony for the B8, they are stupid.

there is really no loss in rear leg room compared to the s4, and the weight savings in the coupe version is only 22lbs less then the 3 series sedan. the people that are looking for an s4/m3/335/rs4 are looking for essentially the same thing a sporty practical and stylish automobile. each one has differnt qualities it brings to the table, thats how they compete.

And do you think Audi really cares about how fast a car can go straight? I know if I did I would be in a 'stang or 'vette, not an S4. The S4 will destroy the BMW on the track... My bro is getting one in May, can't wait to show him...

Sort of the same thing I guess. All I know is I'm wanting a damn 2-seater now.

It will also probably not be a real performance model as far as suspension is concerned. I have seen a 335i sedan available for the US militay in some arab country.

But I doubt it other than the 2.0t. Also as gas prices continue to escalate, and IMHO, it will continue to about $4.00/gal, Turbo charging is the best way to have both performance and some type of reasonable fuel economy.

That is also part of the reason for the higher BMW residuals and resale values. Greater demand for the vehicles partly due to marketing.

stooopid.

I have no desire for a 2-seater. I can honestly say that. A few weeks ago, I went for a drive with a good friend who owns a '05 Carerra S with some mods (H&R springs, P5 wheels, AWE headers and mufflers, intake). We traded cars for a 15-mile stretch of twisties. The difference in feel was like night and day, but I was happy to get back into my RS4....I really didn't have any more "fun" driving the Porsche, even on a road that was perfect for that car. Taking *everything* into consideration, you're not going to find a better car than the S4 or RS4 at their respective price points. 2-seater or sedan.

Here's a crappy pic I shot from my car as we were heading back to town:

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/414/dscn1808.jpg">

a few months ago, someone I know was bragging about their new Mercedes, insinuating that it was "better" than my car. It was a C230...no joke.

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/112552/carbonio.jpg"></center><p>

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/112552/carbonio.jpg"></center><p>I know one that own a G35
same s......
Come... guy's
we drive S4
Nav, BT, Bose, power and Saf....
sorry mi english i'm from miami
I love Audi

M3 Soooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkskkskkskks

Aparently the MBs are not meeting the expaectations of the owners.Must be the Chrysler influence.

Honda Accord lowest lemon law
high buring owners

do a survey asking the general population if they'd rather have (at no cost to them): a)the most expensive Honda, or b) the least expensive Mercedes. I guarantee you choice (b) will win by a large margin.

...i'd be thinking M coupe. Haven't driven one, but on paper it looks good. I think it looks better than the Cayman S, and it gives you a lot more for the money. Just my 2 cents. I have to stop looking at cars until I build a place with a bigger garage!

I was holding out for a 335 loaded when I reconsidered the S4. I live in the Seattle area, and 3-series are a dime a dozen (esp. in Redmond where I live- MS country.) 95% of the 3-series are the slow 325's, so frankly I thought a nice fast 335 would look like just another car (as nice as it is). While s4's are not rare in this area, they are reasonably unique. Plus, the Audi dealers in this area are actually fine to deal with, whereas the BMW dealers in this entire area are the most condescending bunch I've ever experienced!

More importantly, I know firsthand that the RWD beemers are not good in the rain. And they are the absolute CRAPPIEST cars with a inch of snow on the road-- I can't tell you how many I've seen in the ditch or holding up an entire lane of traffic on I-90 or 405 on the rare days when it snows in the city. My beautiful S4 will get me up Mt. Baker with no worries, and in record time!

I for one do not regret my decision to get an S4- it's as fast as I'll ever need, the interior kicks the crap out of any 7 series BMW, and the quattro works like a charm where I live. Those guys that want to look like all the 26 year old girls that work at Microsoft can have their cute little 3 series.

The RS4 is the first of its kind to challenge the M3 on any level, but it damn near costs 20k more. Audi needs to leapfrog BMW with the B8. I love Audi's, but I'm tired of always being forced to modify the hell out of my car to keep up with BMWs.

hey lets not forget the interior of theBMW 3

its HIDEOUS

and lets not forget BMW reliablilty

its HORRIBLE!

The lack of an LSD on this car will take most of the fun out of these numbers when driving this car hard around corners. The DSC will cut the engine power or if you turn it off you'll get some serious wheel spin on the inside wheel. This is what I hated about my last 330Ci.

for audi to "leapfrog" bmw they will have to make the next gen s4 more powerful and better than the rs4... which they will never do.


Audi's one MAJOR flaw was releasing the rs4 how it is. the car is great, but it should be better. it should NOT be competing with the m3, it should be absolutely destroying it in every single comparison.


however, they did manage to get it worked out with the new s6. the new s6 is better than the old rs6 (in stock trim of course), so now the door is open for a new RS6 monster.

hopefully the b8 s4 will be 450hp+.

those are some impressive stats indeed and i believe the X version will be out soon. this is very tempting especially with the turbo modding availible and pricing.

I am having a hard time giving up the AWD.

They used to be optional on all 3 and 5 series cars. They stopped this in the mid 90s when DSC was introduced. Why can't they make this a freakin' option?? Hell, my 1990 325is with 170 horsepower has one and it makes a huge difference. Prior to my S4 I had a 330i ZHP and the lack of a LSD was my only real complaint.

IMO it is not really a must in SE PA.if I do switch I will still have the AR for those rough days. I love Audi but i will be taking a serious look at the BMW offering probably sometime in '08 when both the M and the 335X will be out for some time. Good luck w ur decision

But in the rain it is really stable. I use my Moutaineer in the snow so as not to expose the S4 to the excessive salt and cinders that they use in the Lehigh Valley

the real quattro advantage kicks in during all these hellacious rain storms.

Chipped up paint looks like $hit!

1,000,000-1, the B8 S4 will have a 4.5L (not 4.2L) FSI V8, possibly-but not definitely-with Audi's equivalent to BMW's valvetronic (if Audi ever comes out with such a thing) producing 400 hp and 354 lbs/ft of torque with a 7,500 RPM redline).

Also, 1,000,000-1, the B8 RS 4 will have a normally aspirated 5L FSI V8, possibly-but not definitely-with Audi's eqivalent to BMW's valvetronic (again, if Audi ever comes out with such a thing)-and possibly-but not definitely-with Audi's equivalent to BMW's "throttle intake butterflies" (whatever the bejesus this is-and if Audi ever comes out with such a thing-which would most definitely be reserved for all of the RS models if Audi did ever come out with such a thing) producing 500 hp and 391 lbs/ft of torque with an 8,250 or 8,500 RPM redline.

Of course, this would force Audi to enlarge the FSI V10 to 5.5L in the S6, 6L in the RS 6 and 5.5L or 6L in the S8 with the same enhancements and redlines as the FSI V8 in the B8 S4 and RS 4 with the 5.5L FSI V10 producing 500 hp and 420 lbs/ft of torque with a 7,500 RPM redline and the 6L FSI V10 producing 540 hp (in the S8 with a 7,500 RPM redline if the S8 gets the 6L version) or 600 hp (in the RS 6 with an 8,250 or 8,500 RPM redline) and 465 lbs/ft of torque (regardless of redline).

VAG would also be forced to make the displacement of their new FSI V12 engine 6.5L producing 570 hp and 494 lbs/ft of torque with a 7,500 RPM redline. VAG's new FSI V12 engine is set to make it's debut the D4 A8/A8L one or two years after that car goes into production in 2009 for 2010.

FWIW, the all new FSI V12 will have a 90-degree wide angle and will be longitudinally mounted, just like the 90-degree wide angled and longitudinally mounted V6, V8 and V10 engines from VAG that the all new FSI V12 will be based on.

With the modular platforms that all Audi models (or at least all Audi models from the A4 up) will eventually be built on (with the engine mounted completely behind the front axle like BMW for a near 50/50 front/rear weight distribution identical to RWD BMWs), a V12 will easily fit into the engine bay of all vehicles on the D4 platform. Which is one reason the V12 will eventually replace the W12 throughout VAG. The other reason for the V12 eventually replacing the W12 throughout VAG is because a V12 is enormously superior to a W12 in every conceiveable way (except fuel economy, where a W12 is the same as, marginally better than or marginally worse than a V12).

probably somthing like 360hp or somthing of that nature...just enough to say they have 2 cylinders and "60" more hp then the beamer. completly missing the point but it will look nice on paper and probably drive quite nicely for what its worth.

Nowhere else in the world are people overly impressed by tarted up Toyotas

if the s4 stays &lt;400hp it will get destroyed. hell, the new m3 is gonna rip the rs4 a new one as well.


Audi needs to step up their game. s4 needs to be ~450hp and gobs of torque, rs4 needs ~550.

s6 and s8 can share the rs4 motor, but an rs6 or rs8(if it is ever produced) needs to be at least 100-150hp over the rs4.

it will totally take away from the "s" status.

s v. m

rs4&gt; m

not
s v. 3 series


then what is an a4 in competition with?

RS4 is based on B7 S4 which is based on B6 S4 which is based on the 2001 B6 A4 plaform! Wait until Audi come out with the B8 platform before you start comparing them.

platforms getting the advantage on one upsmanship on the others' "old" platform for several years. Besides, I never considered Audi vs. BMW vs. M-B. Each has it's own attributes and 'privilege of ownership and exclusivity'. It is apples v oranges v comquats.

from a normally aspirated FSI valvetronic(?) V8 with 4.5L of displacement and a 7,500 RPM redline should be sufficient for the B8 S4. 500 hp and 391 lbs/ft of torque from a high revving normally aspirated FSI valvetronic(?) V8 with 5L of displacement, an 8,250 or 8,500 RPM redline and "throttle intake butterflies"(?) should be sufficient for the B8 RS 4. The new M3's 4L DFI valvetronic V8 with an 8,250 RPM redline and "throttle intake butterflies" is going to produce 400 hp and 310 lbs/ft of torque (in P4 mode if the new M3's V8 has P3 and P4 modes) and 300 hp and 280 lbs/ft of torque in P3 mode (again, if the new M3's 4L DFI V8 has P3 and P4 modes). The question marks in parenthesis (or is it parentheses) are indications of something that is a possibility or strong possibility but in no way definite.

What do you call audi then?!

In fact, those BMWs are almost as unreliable as 2000+ Mercedes' and much more unreliable than any Audi-old and especially new. This is based on numerous online reviews from numerous owners of Bangle/Van Hooydonk BMWs, 2000+ MBs and any model year Audi-epsecially mid 2000s onward. Older (i.e. pre Bangle/Van Hooydonk) BMWs have excellent reliability. Ditto 1999 and prior MBs, though the ML and CLK are pieces of junk regardless of model year.

same goes for the moms E39 M5....wish i could say the same for my s4 :)

but your father is in the very, very vast minority with the S500. Have you checked Consumer Reports/Consumers Digest/Consumers Union lately? The 2000+ S Class is one of the worst cars out there in reliability. Worse or significantly worse than any Audi-old-and especially new.

The E39 5 Series/M5, OTOH, is one of the most reliable cars out there. In that regard, your mother is in the vast or very vast majority with her M5.

I used to be one of the many idiots who thinks that CR/CD/CU is garbage. But truth be told, they are one of the best automotive sources out there. 800,000+ vehicle owners per year surveyed by CR/CD/CU, compared to half that or less surveyed by JD Power and Associates and Strategic Vision (who are vastly inferior to CR/CD/CU as automotive sources) combined.