and was duly impressed.
It was wearing the JMW-9 arm and a Micro Benz cartridge.
They didn't have a Scout there which is what I wanted to listen to. Am trying to find local dealers and audition as many as I can find.

I think it would sound great in my system.

The piece of steel, extra slice of MDF, thicker platter and so forth added only a very subtle difference in overall detail. And it really was something I had to listen hard for. When I did the right thing and just sat back and listened to the music instead of the rigs, I was just as happy either way. My suggestion is to buy the Scout and spend the money saved on a nice cartridge or phono stage.
For a cartridge I'd suggest a Dynavector DV-20X or a Sumiko Blackbird. If you want to get both with the price difference, try a Goldring 1042 or a AT OC-9 for a cartridge and a Creek OBH-15 for a phono stage.

with their Van Helsing wires and anti-skate mechanism ? Worth the extra wedge ?

Again, a very marginal difference is all that can be expected. Money is better spent on other things; cartridge, isolation platform, interconnects etc.
In fact, the anti-skating device on the regular JMW works really well. Doesn't need to be changed at all. It looks a bit Heath-Robinson being the arm tail wire, but it's very effective.
The arm wire used in the regular JMW is pretty good as it stands. The upgraded wire is more likely to result in a slightly different sound, but not necessarily better.
Problem for VPI is, they did such a fine job with the Scout, that you have to spend a lot more money on one of their super-rigs to get a significant improvement in sound.
Whatever you do, isolate your deck well from vibration. It makes a huge difference.

The scout allows you to make adjustments in all the areas you are ever likely to want to fiddle with, and they make it really easy to do so. It's a brilliant design.

The uni-pivot might take a little getting used to if you haven't had prior experience with such a thing, but it won't take you long. Just be very careful with set-up. The spike that caters for the arm pivot is as sharp as anything you'll ever encounter. Don't let anything near it except the underside of the arm belly. Always make sure you are completely sober when doing any adjustments/setting-up with your deck : )

Pun not intended nor when I mentioned auditioning a Scoutmaster - all sorts of connotations could have been inferred.
So here's my plan of action.
I'm going to have a look around for the other mentioned decks, namely an RPM9.1, Rega P5, Origin Live and the Marantz - all of which have glowing reports on the interweb. That doesn't buy me anything though as I need to see and hear them .
Once I decide on a deck then I'll start looking at the bolt ons. As touched on before, Tubes appeal to me and maybe a phono stage is the first step into that. The trouble is, and I thank you for your opinions, is that there are so many options to choose from. I'm not going to go insane over this and go looking for the nth degree but want something half decent.
Again, it's all about the money and once the deck is in I can settle down, enjoy and tune from there on in with phono stages, interconnects, cartridges etc.
Sanity will prevail as I know I'll be onto House Hunting in the next few months and that's going to take big bucks !

Mind you - he's got interest free credit over 12 months which makes it all very simple and with a free record cleaning and some cheese nibbles - who knows what will happen. Jeff who sold me the speakers was giving me Newcastle in a Dixie cup while I was sat enjoying them in-store. Makes for a nice decision.

Are the DV20X (H I presume) and the Blackbird suggestions because of sonic value ?
As you can probably tell, I don't mind forking out but don't want to spend more than I have to. The Shelter 501 Mk II gets good reviews but is more costly.
I spent a lot of time last night thinking about this whole process and I liken myself to being on the edge of a deep dark whirlpool just touching my toes in and getting a feel for what some would deem an eternal quest for pure sound, or maybe better put, for perfect equipment.

It's a long way down.

The DV20X (high output) is the recommended cartridge by Scout because of how well it performs with the uni-pivot arm. It's a really tough combination to beat. When you hear this combo, it's difficult to find an area where you wish it sounded better.
The Blackbird has an amazing midband and is an overall great value tracker. I'm a bit reluctant to give it the full thumbs up however, because it is a 'nude' cartridge making it a bitch to install and live with without damaging it.

I've not heard the Shelter, so I can't really comment on it.

If you do want to go tube and you want to really benefit from what a tube phono stage can do, I'd have to suggest looking at Eastern Electric's Minimax. Not cheap, but treads heavily on devices costing 3 times as much.

How do you know all this stuff ?

My thoughts are that my Arcam Alpha 7 has a phono stage for MM but don't know if it will work with this cartridge initially seeing as it's MC with an output of 1.0mV.
Assume that I'm going to upgrade my phone stage at some point soon. That Eastern Electric one looks very nice.


Found some notes on my Arcam if it helps...
Phono Cartridge Input
Frequency response ref. IEC RIAA +/-1dB
Noise (CCIR) ref. rated output 76dB
Input sensitivity 2.7mV
Input impedance 47 Ohms
Overload margin 30dB

I'm guessing the 2.7mV is a give away. I'm also wondering if I'm getting into too much detail and should just go for the 20xH and be done with it. How much difference would the sound be anyway ?

Arcam take vinyl seriously. Despite not currently making a turntable themselves, Arcam have no problems with accepting vinyl as the highest resolution format available to music listeners and happily provide for them.

Anyone who goes with a DV20X for their Scout is on the right track. Should add an Eastern Electric phono stage the sound will open-up enormously and sound more organic and well separated. Of course, you'll want to upgrade the amplifier shortly afterwards!

I've not heard the DV20X SV.

I get to sit in front lots of different system combinations on a good day. It's proven to be priceless. It's amazing how some odd partnering of components can surprise you with an amazing sound from what on paper would look like a serious system mis-match....and vice versa..

The worst (and most common) system mis-matches I've come across are often in people's front/listening rooms. The owner will be puzzled how they bought a source, an amp and speakers, all of which were individually very highly rated/received many awards and yet the systems fails to excite them.

The most important aspect of putting a system together is getting the (for want of a better word) 'synergy' right - an even balance of sonic character. It's all but impossible to do without having listened to the equipment all together and compared it with alternatives. This is why being able to visit a good dealer is so critical.
Sadly very few people are aware of this (although some who are still brush-off the idea for one daft reason or another) and just buy whatever gets talked about the most in the net/in their local bar/by their buddy who knows a little more than they do.
What might be a 'good deal' on a piece of gear (compared with it's retail price) might result in an entire system providing very poor value for money because of a sonic mis-match.
Buying the wrong type of speaker for the room, or the wrong type of amp/receiver for the speakers in question is another major culprit.

I can't tell you how many 2 channel systems I've heard sound many, many times better than more expensive surround systems. having the sound come from the rears speakers as well as the fronts is one thing, but if the overall accuracy of sound isn't there and the balance of sonics isn't spot-on, surround systems can sound comparatively mediocre.

It's not easy putting together a well balanced stereo system at any price (recent lack of quality dealers is the main problem here - and a good dealer just needs a decent selection and to leave you alone to try things out for yourself, as well as offer component matching advice), but when you have done so, the results can be superb, and you don't always have to spend mega-bucks.
Doing the same thing with surround sound is less of an adventure. Mainly because with surround sound, the equipment choice is more limited (not that there's any shortage, it's just that compared with 2 channel amps, receivers don't vary as much in sound quality at any given price range) and most sources sound very similar (particularly as they often end-up using the receiver's on-board DAC). Things are getting better now that Hi-Rez audio is being used on newer technologies. For ages we were stuck with Dolby Digital and DTS and for those used to reveling in their glorious 2 channel gear, the two were a bit dull on the ear.

I don't see myself staying in the industry for employment much longer though. The demand for specialist retail Home Theater stores has plummeted dramatically since the internet became the force it now is.
The ironic thing about the internet is, many people think it's the way to get a Home Theater bargain, but for most people, once they get their system set-up they have something which generally represents pretty poor value for money.
People are taking the wrong advice too. So many people have walked into where I work thinking they needed surround sound, but after a short (qualifying) conversation with them they discover they don't need surround sound at all (usually because they don't watch a lot of movies and those they do watch aren't usually action flicks)

It was obvious to me that you were in the trade and I think I had you pretty much pegged.
The one thing that I have found during this whole hunt has been the lack of good dealers or maybe not good dealers but physical locations in which to audition what I wanted to hear. With retailers being 'in bed' with manufacturers I think it is nigh impossible to find a one stop shop for everything you'd like to try.
On reflection, as you suggest, the internet may be to blame. The amount of choice, research and reviews available at our fingertips now is staggering and taken too literally could confuse, misguide or turn people away as they 'just want to get a good amp, for **** sake !', forcing them to buy the first thing they get sold in their local chain store or the one that got the Reader's Digest '5 Buns awards'. It may sound fine with the tester's equipment but in their system may not be the best of fits. I'm not sure that applies to those here in this forum but may apply to 'the layman' purchaser, if you will.

Personally, I'm hoping that the gear I upgrade to, although given the nod by helpful and knowledgeable hands, and AudiWorld of course, will sound good at home. So far I'm very happy with the speakers and once I bought them home and they sounded good, did one check to see if the price was fair then never looked again. For me - even if I had paid $100 over the top, which I didn't and he would have price matched anyway, the extra cost of being able to go and talk to somebody, spend time auditioning and go back to if I had any problems would be well worth the money. That value is definitely lost on the internet. I'm lucky that I stumbled across somebody who doesn't have any digital audio equipment at all, being purely two channel. I've bought a TV and speakers from him now.

Take the turntable for example - yes - I can go to ElusiveDisc and get the package deal and have it delivered for free and not pay any tax on it but is it worth the savings ? How much hassle is it if it turns up damaged or is the wrong one or I'm not really happy with it ? I think I'd rather take the 15 minute drive to the dealer I auditioned with, pay him for his time and know that I'm going to get a decent price match as he knows I'm going to come back to him next time.

I bounced the turntable off of my original dealer, mentioned above, last night who could only sell me Pro-Ject decks and he couldn't fault the idea. He couldn't sell me one, which is unfortunate, but he's there for me if I need him.
That to me is first class service and value and is very difficult to put a price on. He knows I'll be back to him first for anything else that I need and if he can help, he will.

I think what I'm trying to say is that it would be a great loss to us, johnny consumer, if people like you were forced to give up their passion because of the internet market. It may be the way it is heading and food has to be put on the table but I for one think it's a damn shame.

I'm way ahead of myself here but the price of $3200 for an MC275 was mentioned last night. Nice !

<center><img src="http://www.primaluna-usa.com/images/dia2_big.jpg"></center><p>
It reminds me of when I learned to drive - first lesson, always think ahead.

Yes, the price for the Mac is tasty. Just to give you an alternative that has impressed me enormously recently:<ul><li><a href="http://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue2.htm">Beguiling</a></li></ul>

My mates got a room full of McIntosh gear and has too much money. I always seem to connect the two with a strange taste in my mouth, taking the sound out of the equation of course.
This however looks really nice and with another $200 on top, I could possibly remove the need for a separate phono stage like the EEAudio one. Would I notice the difference ?

Hmm. Less clutter, less cabling, less money with a rivaling sound ? Sounds right up my street. I particularly like this quote...

..."audiophiles and music lovers who are value- and performance conscious, and want tube electronics that anyone can operate and maintain are in for a treat."

Thanks for the advice.

...with the 20XH Dynavector Cartridge and the JMW-9 arm.
I think I really scored on this one as the store I went to this week to listen to the ScoutMaster are having a 're-opening' party this weekend and there's 10% off of everything !
I showed them the best price I found on the web and they took 10% off of that. Add 5% back on for tax and it's still the best price I've found anywhere and it's from a local dealer.
All the more reason for you to visit your local dealer kids ;-)

Always better safe than sorry with turntable set-up. One slip and it ends in tears.

Reading the manual, thoroughly before set-up is critical. Not rushing through the manual is equally important.

It comes brilliantly packed with acres of dense foam. Be real careful with the tone arm and it's supporting spike.

A decent jeweler's digital scale is all you need for tracking force measurement ($15-20 on ebay), they are the same as the one's you see in Music Direct (amongst other places) for $100+ without the fancy name.

The regular 'Magic Eraser' is great for keeping your stylus tip clean. Just pull it towards you for about an inch and repeat twice.

You'll need a long, very straight stick (lighter the better) and level for azimuth adjustment.

Hunt's EDA record cleaner is a sound device.
And a ZeroStat is great for records with static. Well worth the $80. Don't forget some anti-static sleeves too.

Great turntable, superb cartridge choice.

Always use the record clamp with any records which don't sit completely flat.

I suggest you give the platter a 'helping-hand' of torque just before you start the motor. It'll take the strain off and help it last longer.
Always....take you time : )

Congratulations.