I'm getting tired of this nonsense. No, this is not a BD rant.

1. My Panasonic BD30, arguably the best SA BD player around according to many, doesn't pass PCM LFE properly over HDMI (it drops 5dB, confirmed by Roger Dressler @ Dolby). This has apparently been broken since their BD10 player (still not fixed to this day) and will most likely be in the BD50 as well. Only workaround is to use the analog outs, which other than forcing downmixing of any 7.1 sources to 5.1, functions properly at least. How long has uncompressed PCM been around on BD? Inexcusable.

2. Most '24p' TVs are broken. Not Sony's or Pioneer's evidently, but most others are. Many don't advertise their 24p-ness properly (although it's required they do so), so players who don't force that setting on (not required), ignore the TV. Many others, who claim 24p compatibility via the 120Hz method <b>actually do their own 3:2 pulldown and then double the 60p</b>! Are you kidding me? Where do I sign up for the class-action suit?

3. Every single major receiver vendor bungled some aspect or another of their HDMI 1.3 products. NAD, Denon, Onkyo, etc.. Every single one of them. Many of the issues don't even have anything to do with HDMI 1.3! Maybe they should've used the extra 1.3 delay time to, oh I don't know, test????
Every thread on AVSforum in the receiver section is a manufacturing embarrassment.

It's time to get control of the asylum and get the marketing inmates back in their cells.

We need products that work.&lt;/rant&gt;

p.s. early adopter be damned, none of these techs are *that* new. Links furnished upon request.

even with some firmware upgrades on a 2nd generation player, the PCM LFE issues with Panasonic BDPs are still there. I was aware of this but I had hoped that Panasonic would quickly resolve it with a firmware upgrade. Looks like they haven't, and perhaps they can't? Doesn't bode well for the BD50 which will share basically the same circuit board layout as the BD30 but I'm still hopeful because I really want to get that player. But now, I may have to wait for the guinea pigs to confirm instead of jumping on a pre-order. I know there's a workaround especially if you have one of those fancy new receivers with input and signal specific LFE correction, but who the hell wants a workaround when Panasonic can just make a player that just works right? Dammit.

I share your disdain over the proper processing of 24p material also. This one of the reasons why I went with Pioneer.

Don't even get me started with HDMI. It has caused me many headaches in the past and I'm sure it's not over yet. Dropouts, 1.3a compatibility, lip-synching issues, slow-response in audio and video when changing inputs/channels, etc, etc... ARGGHHH!!! Such a tragedy that an imperfect technology has been forced upon the consumers. You want 7.1 lossless audio? You need HDMI. Want 1080p24 passed through your AVR? Use HDMI. Fvckers. Obviously not always the case and component-dependent but you get the idea.

the lfe correction doesn't always work that great if you have anything set to 'small' since it'll also boost redirected bass.

I can live with the analog I guess, although I'm unclear if my next Audyssey-capable receiver will apply the room correction eq to the analog signal (magic 8-ball says 'unlikely' under $5K, but maybe I just need to research more), until I get a FOX BD title of course...then I have to switch back to HDMI and hope the DTS-MA decoder in my receiver isn't screwed up either...bah.

I could not agree more with your frustration.

HDMI specification conformance [and therefore device to device compatibility] is a joke. None of the manufacturers seem to know how exactly how to build a HDMI device/interface...not entirely their fault [lack of firm standards], but still inexcusable.

keep up. Not to mention the consumer.

It's likely to always be the case though. Just when you think you've found a sourse/receiver/display which has everything, new features are trickling through just as you load your first HD movie and dim the lights.

It's great that we're not standing still with these technologies, but as many of us are so used to TV and video technologies being good for at least a few years before desiring upgrades, it can get frustrating.

The good news is, you can still buy a BluRay based HT system and get superb performance out of it with what's currently available. It's tough on those who have invested a lot in HD-DVD/want all the latest PiP features/continuous firmwhere updates/have a top-end receiver from two years ago etc, but the performance can still be had.

You can either be bothered by the fact that new technologies are always on the way at any given time, or you can enjoy what you have and look forward to your next upgrade. Or both. The good news is, whatever your next upgrade is, it'll probably be better than what you have.

long-established tech.

I would be more forgiving if the breaks were hdmi 1.3-related for example, but they're not. And the 24p stuff is just incompetence at best, and deceptive practices at worst.

Not even my favorite AVR brand skates in my mind: they've had misc. snaps/crackle/pops every time a digital source is switched for the last 3 generations (at least!). Every other manufacturer has successfully addressed this, why can't they? There's not enough margin on a $2500 receiver to finance this fix? And it doesn't even have the added complexity of HD Audio decoders!

Sorry, I'm not in a forgiving mood anymore. We certainly harp on MS (with good reason) for similar lack of attention to basic detail.

if they want hdmi I will install it but will switch it out if the problems are continuous. I tell every customer this, most of the time they dont want the hassle. but now with blue ray, its irrelevant

im kinda scared, i know all the issues with hdmi and its not pretty. i DONT NEED PHONE CALLS IN THE MIDDLE of a big game with a customer freaking out his tv locked up right before a touchdown etc...(has happened at my old job)


it sucks that custoemrs get all the stupid problems way before its refined. its rediculous and would never be tolerated in pro audio.

however, when pro tools first came out, ISSUES would arise in pro audio and consequences in pro audio are higher then consumer. the type of minds and eclectis people beceom enraged and flip out, thats when things get done.

for some reason though, the digital realm is prone to this issue.


hence the reason for me still being a analaog freak...


thank you
come again

Jump off the bandwagon and go strictly 2 channel with a pair of speakers with superb 3 dimensionality and imaging.
I did that a couple of years ago and haven't missed surround sound in the slightest since. Everything sounds superb, very easy to use, set-up and maintain. Sounds still come from all over the place when your speakers are nicely dialled-in.
When I listen to surround systems now I notice more what they can't do compared with my set-up rather than what my system doesn't do.

Surely.
It's the reason I give. The only reason that matters.

my BD player doesn't decode anything hi-res, so if the disc doesn't have uncompressed MPCM on it, I'm essentially listening to DVD-quality audio. Not great. Not a huge issue, except for DTS-MA-only FOX titles.

i still want Audyssey EQ, especially Paul Burton's curve in the NAD receivers/pre-pro. haven't been able to confirm if it's applied on analog inputs or not.

bleh.

every system ive done that was calibrated with an mic/eq ive made the sound ten times better

works against analog inputs...

feels like your in the kick drum hehe

the police sound so damn good on it.

Do you have 4 pairs of 74db bookshelf speakers in a huge room?
Or is that just PMPO?!

means about as much as an FDA approval.

It's a measurement of wattage, regardless of distortion levels or peak in the frequency. Aka a much more pointless spec' than just about any other.
Was found on many Far Eastern boom box point of sale tags in the 80's and 90's.

Forgive me for not remembering your rig. I'll know it when I see it. Link?

with a separate crest audio amp)


for amplifiers im running a crest audio ca12 bridged to 4 ohms running around 2500 watts with 4 8 ohm 12" woofers(2 each side bridged to 4ohms per side) which runs off the master fader on the sound board with 2 homeade crossovers set at 300 hz for bottom subs in ported enclosures and 2 more homeade crossovers set for 200-500hz for the 2 other 12" subs which are On the "2nd teir" in sealed box's. I have a third set of homeade crossovers for 400hz up to 7khz for the internal mids(3") and and one more pair of homeade crossovers from 6000khz to 20 khz for highs(1") and I split the wire up to run into the center channel over my monitor with a 400hz to 20khz cross over for a fill in.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/htelect/msgs/8458.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/htelect/msgs/8458.phtml</a</li></ul>