View Full Version : Some talk, sometimes LOTS of talk about transmissions. . .


markcincinnati
02-20-2006, 02:21 PM
Sure, I "wish" for an A6 with a stick shift -- and I do not understand what the comment, "the car is too big for a manual" means but I accept the comment on face value.

I am pleased by Timbilt's information about a 7 speed DSG. Very pleased.

Very very pleased.

Why? I drove the TT with the DSG immediately after getting out of a 2003 225HP TT stick and the DSG was much better than any Tiptronic, including the excellent representation of the breed that is in my 14,000 mile old C6 3.2.

If I appear to presume too much (or too little) I submit the following for those who think the BMW SMG is interchangable with the Audi DSG.

They are not.

The DSG is better. The premise is for most intents identical. The execution of Audis with its Dual-ality makes this transmission especially with 7 forward speeds possibly enough to make most of us forget (or at least not miss as much) the 6 speed manuals (well, I might pause a moment with a tear in my eye thinking how nice the current S4 manual feels, at least compared with my 2003 allroad 6 speed -- which for the record, I loved -- but I knew it was hardly a GREAT manual transmission.)

If you have a perception of the DSG and the SMG as "twin sons of different mothers" well, from what I have read, you would be misinformed.

Indeed, according to one of the new gushing first drives of the S8, even the S8's tiptronic "feels much more like the DSG" than it has any right to (or words to that effect.)

The primary disadvantage 15 minutes ago was that the tip sucked gas mileage and performance from an otherwise capable engine.

Even that is not anywhere near as true as it was 16 minutes ago.

But, now even the tip can be employed with little gas mileage penalty if any. The CVT, probably won't be employed (my gut) in the face of what will almost certainly be 7 speed DSG's and perhaps 7 speed even more improved tiptronics.

I will, however, nevertheless, continue to bitch and moan about the lack of a manual transmission in the C6.

But April has a point (or perhaps better said, she almost always has a valid and valuable point of view) that the BMW 525 engine (a 3.0 liter) is less powerful and thirstier than the Audi 3.2 (or technically 3.1+ liter.)

Audi is producing, with the 3.2FSI even hobbled somewhat by US crappy fuel, powerful, smooth engines driving four wheels and despite being nose heavy (way way nose heavy compared with the Bimmers often) and heavier in general, turning in competitive performance for less MSRP (although sometimes a $5K more BMW leases for less than an Audi -- subvented probably, but who cares.)

I am not about to abandon my Audi just 'cause it don't offer no stick shift.

Conversely, a 530xi 6 speed manual with a proper performance suspension and tire set up priced with similar content to the Audi, would HAVE to be a serious contender.

Who knows, though, perhaps the 7 speed DSG Audi will blow away the manual transmission BMW.

Probably will, come to think of it.

But, as a sign of the times, despite my wife's BMW dealer's assertion that he sells 40% of the 5 series as AWD versions (constrained NOT by demand, but by availability of more x-drive 5's), he keeps zero (0) models of the stick shift persuasion in stock -- and this is at a BMW dealer that sells about 100 cars a month (and there are two BMW dealers in our fair city) compared with the largest of the two Audi dealers who sells but 50 cars per month.

We'll get over the stick shifts, sooner rather than later -- much as it pains me to say this.

Jus' don't go thinkin' the Audi DSG is the same as the BMW SMG. Cousins, maybe - but not siblings.

Audi S5 TC
02-20-2006, 02:48 PM
Keep in mind that the information that I share with AudiWorld about DSG replacing tiptronic completely as frequently as I have been lately comes from several AudiWorld members (some of which have talked to either Audi AG, factory engineers at the Audi and Quattro Gmbh factories in Ingolstadt, Germany and Neckersulm, Germany or Borg Warner) and reliable Automotive press in Germany. Borg Warner manufactures all DSG transmissions except for the DL1,400 (with a maximum capacity of 1,032 lbs/ft of torque or 1,400 nm, hence the DL1,400 designation) 7-speed DSG in the Bugatti Veyron, which is manufactured by some highly exclusive high performance company called Ricardo.

hkallroad
02-20-2006, 06:01 PM
I don't think anyone of us here will mistaken the DSG for the SMG, given that we are all supposed to be car enthusiasts here. I certainly hope that's the plan anyway as DSG is just too good a piece of hardware. Jusr my .2 cents

ACSGP
02-20-2006, 08:51 PM
I can add my 2 cents worth on these 2 transmissions as my C6 has the "7" speed multitronic, and also had the Golf GTi DSG for a day.

Both cars have the same 0-60 times, both are FWD, but it's night and day between the 2 transmissions. The response time on the DSG is much quicker than even the CVT, given that the latter has to spool up slightly before it starts gathering speed.

Between a tip and the multitronic, I would take the latter any time because of the quicker acceleration, the lighter weight and the better gas mileage. Only downsides are the lack of quattro and transmission whine (this is my 2nd transmission after complaining about the first, which was changed under warranty).

I guess I fully agree with Mark - the DSG is the future, and I would pick it over the manual as it's quicker and smoother (good in traffic jams too).

April
02-20-2006, 09:40 PM

ACSGP
02-20-2006, 10:02 PM

April
02-20-2006, 10:06 PM

ACSGP
02-20-2006, 10:21 PM
With the transmission in manual (ie in any one of the 7 pre-selected ratios), the throttle response is fantastic, provided that you're in the correct power band.

April
02-21-2006, 10:25 AM
other cars in our fleet which are not forced induction, and so must rev to produce power.

April
02-21-2006, 12:49 PM
DSG (which is getting a name change soon btw). Another model of longitudinal engined Audi will get it first (sorry, can't disclose details). Look for an extremely trick version of DSG in the C7 and D4.

FYI: this information does not come from a website or forum posting.

Audi S5 TC
02-21-2006, 04:11 PM
then Audi and ZF damn well better extensively revise their 6-speed tiptronic automatic transmission (i.e. considerably less computer, electrical and electronic intervention and considerably more mechanical and hydraulic intervention like BMW's essentially similar 6-speed steptronic automatic tranmsission). This would make for much better performance, better fuel economy, lower emissions, less weight, much less complexity, much better reliability and much better durability. Audi and ZF giving the 6-speed tiptronic automatic tranmission these extensive revisions that it is in hopelessly depsperate need of would also make the transmission much smoother with very little or no lurching (preferably, no lurching) without making it isolating.

April
02-21-2006, 04:42 PM
Drive a 525xi or 530xi with the auto?

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e60/7282121-1.html

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e60/4928059-1.html

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e60/4987932-1.html

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=22468

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=21661&hl=transmission

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=20494&hl=transmission

http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B240605g.htm

And on and on, and on.........

If you want to try lurching, try an Infiniti G35x some time ;-)<ul><li><a href="http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e34/specs/all_adaptive_trans.html">E34 technology ..... simpler how?</a></li></ul>

JohnLZ7W
02-22-2006, 12:51 AM

Nitin
02-25-2006, 09:45 PM
BMW and Audi - the gearbox is made by same company - ZF - so exact that they can be interchanged!!! They both share the same "thunk" while downshifting ;)

But not on higher end BMWs where they use some other supplier.