It's time to replace my '99 2.8Q. I have really enjoyed the car.
I had pretty much narrowed my choice down to the new A6 or maybe the Acura RL, when I saw an advertisement for an unbelievable lease deal on the 2004 VW Phaeton. With a little more research, I have found that there are incredible dealer and customer incentives for this car. While I realize it competes more with the A8L, the 500S, and the 745iL, I can lease one for much less than a new A6. It's kind of big, doesn't handle as well, but seems to be a lot of car for the money. The resale value will suck, but who cares, I'm leasing my new car in any event. Any thoughts?
Audi S5 TC
11-03-2004, 11:10 AM
if you think Audi depreciates hard 9which is does, the Phaeton will depreciate like a Jaguar or maybe even faster than a Jaguar. As we all know, Jaguar depreciates much faster than Audi. The same will hold true for the Phaeton-which is a joke as VW has no business whatsoever entering the luxury car market. That is what they have Audi and Bentley for. Get a freaking clue VW. The Phaeton is a fatal mistake.
11-03-2004, 11:17 AM
Makes sure to drive it back to back with your other choices, before signing. It's an excellent deal, and certainly as nice, if not nicer than Lexus, and maybe the Mercedes. The 7 series and A8 are more sporty of course.
Also, if there is any chance that you might have to sell/buy it out, be prepared to take a large hit.
11-03-2004, 12:12 PM
I agree it is a bad mistake for VW. But, VW's mistake could be a consumer's gain. I think the main issue is no one wants to spend that much money for a VW - they want the luxury name plate. I could care less about the prestige of driving an Audi vs a VW.
I will only lease the car, and get to drive what I think will be a strong vehicle (I have not yet driven it) for less than a A6 3.2. I have read of leases in the mid $600 a month range (MSRP of $66,000). My guess is I'll get A8L performance and luxury for much less?
11-03-2004, 12:22 PM
My lease is up on my '01 A6 in another month and I shopped the Phaeton (also the Acura RL) and although the deal is very good ($699 per month I recall) I just couldn't get past how much it looked like a Passat.
The car drove like a dream (more Luxury than sport), but felt very heavy.
Given the sales numbers the Phaeton is posting I would have to question if VW will continue to make it in a couple years.
11-03-2004, 01:00 PM
11-03-2004, 01:19 PM
What did you think about the new A6 vs the new RL vs the Phaeton? There are NO deals on the A6 and RL - leases on either car will be close to $900 a month (and that's for a V6).
11-03-2004, 01:43 PM
Similar to the Phaeton I just couldn't get excited about the RL's exterior. I know a lot of people are debating the "fish mouth" of the C6 (look in the C5 forum), but I at least give Audi credit for trying something new. Personally I like the design. If I'm spending $50K+ on a car I don't want it looking like a Honda Accord, but that's personal preference.
Interior of the RL was terrific. Acura did a nice job blending technology without compromising usability. Audi's MMI is easier than BMW's i-drive, but Acura's interface is by far the best. The overall sense of luxury in the Acura cabin was up to Lexus standard. The one killer was no passenger seat height adjustment. Big issue for me since my girlfriend is only 5'3" and wasn't too pleased with the lack of height adj.
From a pure technology standpoint (depending on how you equip the Audi) they are very close, but here are some points to consider from that POV:
Audi has: 18" wheels, 60/40 split rear seats, Rain Sensing wippers, Folding outside mirrors, larger trunk (15.9cft vs 13.1), service included and passenger height seat.
Acura has: DVD-A stereo, Power rear sunshade, On-Star, Real Time traffic (cool!), Active Noise Cancellation (C&D review had the Audi only 1 decible higher at cruise speed) and Tire pressure monitoring.
As I said some of those differences depend on how you equip the Audi.
I'm in the same boat as you. I have deposits (refundable) down on both an '05 A6 3.2 and an '05 RL. Both are expected to arrive end of the month.
Audi will be releasing the Nov/Dec purchase/lease programs tomorrow (Oct programs run out today). I'm curious if they give any support to the launch of the new A6 with a low money factor / interest rate. I drove by my local dealer last night and 5 (five) '05 A6 are sitting on the lot without "sold" signs. I'm hoping that in another month they will be willing to deal a little.
If not then I fall back on Infiniti G35x :)
11-03-2004, 02:24 PM
I like the new C6 as well, and I agree with your evaluation of the RL, but I am waiting to see the Infiniti M-45 that should be out in February. From what I have read and seen on the net, it looks to be very competitive in this market segment. I drove the 03 M-45 and other than it wa butt ugly, it drove fantastic. Just me 2 cents.
11-03-2004, 02:52 PM
Some research study in the area I was invited to participate and I have to say the M35 (RWD) was wonderful. Very fast with an engine what loved to rev. Interior was second to none, but it would be a matter of personal perference as some people in the study hated it. Lots of wood, but more natural looking without a heavy gloss like many of the cars today. If my lease wasn't up in 30 days I'd certainly hold out for the new M35 AWD to arrive.
11-03-2004, 04:04 PM
11-03-2004, 05:39 PM
It was built, I thought, to compete with MB's S-Class. Audi is the competion for BMW. Or so goes the wisdom...
11-04-2004, 06:31 AM
leases for $499 for 36 months with 0 at signing. I believe it was only 10k miles a year, but still an incredible price.
11-05-2004, 05:58 AM
... but you'll always be slumming at the VW dealership. I also have my doubts about a VW tech's familiarity with the Phaeton give the low volume and limited commonality with other VWs.
11-05-2004, 02:54 PM
Well, it is a BIG car. Huge back seat, lots of leg room. The car is very well proportioned and looks better live than in the pictures. The engine is very strong - pulled well even with a 5,000 lb curb weight (1,000 more than the A8). Great interior, beautiful fit and finish, massage seats, air conditioned seats, air suspension, etc etc. You definitely feel the length and weight of the car driving it hard on corners, but surprisingly little body roll for such a big car. Extremely quiet ride thanks to the double thick glass. It measures up very well to the 745iL, S class and A8L. The aggressive lease program (.9%) can not be combined with the dealer cash incentives of $10,000. The dealer sold only 4 this year, two in the last week thanks to the new incentives on the remaining '04s. So, while the lease is still a great rate, I'm not sure it's good enough to persuade me to drive such a big car as my day to day ride. If I was looking for a big luxury car instead of a sports sedan, this would be a serious choice.